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Mess with your minds: A wind powered craft going faster than a tail wind speed.
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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Brumby on December 19, 2021, 04:00:18 am ---
--- Quote ---Yes but those 5.5W will not create more than 5.5W at the propeller output. So the kinetic energy / speed reduction to get those 5.5W will require the same 5.5W just to be where you started from in ideal case.

--- End quote ---
I know exactly what you are saying here ... and it is what you would naturally expect from applying intuitive thinking.

However, the mechanism utilises a mechanical advantage (if you will) with the power of the wind augmenting the effectiveness of that 5.5W.

--- End quote ---

There is no mechanical system or even non mechanical that can output any more than the input in therms of power.
You can adjust the ratio between force and speed but power on output will need to remain the same (ideal case) or less (real world).
All you all did was experience that vehicle exceeded wind speed and came up with wrong explanation of why that happened when the obvious solution was to look for an energy storage device.
It is exactly like those motor generators setups where a motors drives a generator usually trough a gear ratio change and generator supplies the motor.
There people use tricks like adding a large flywheel (mechanical energy storage device) or even hide a battery to trick people.
Here there was no intent in deceiving (at least I do not think it was) but just did not understood that there is an energy storage device and that is what powers the vehicle above wind speed.
The sad part is that people with a PhD in physics get tricked by this. That university professor that lost the bet (his fault for gambling) said nothing wrong in Derek's video but since it was unable to explain how the treadmill prototype worked it was forced to pay the money not to be seen as not honoring his obligations.  He should have asked for help and try to understand why it works then make that information public.

Unfortunately school is mostly for those that can memorize facts and equations an understanding is completely irrelevant.     
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: IanB on December 19, 2021, 04:53:12 am ---This is how Blackbird can do the same thing:

--- End quote ---

Nope that image is possible for some moments due to initial stored kinetic energy or maybe higher wind gust.
It seems sailors do not have just stories about large fish and Mermaids.
But keep in mind the main discussion here is about blackbird that is not allowed to travel at any angle other than direct down wind.
bdunham7:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 19, 2021, 04:58:42 am ---But keep in mind the main discussion here is about blackbird that is not allowed to travel at any angle other than direct down wind.

--- End quote ---

Hmmm.  Is that true for the propeller blades?  Are they going straight downwind?
Brumby:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 19, 2021, 04:53:51 am ---There is no mechanical system or even non mechanical that can output any more than the input in therms of power.
--- End quote ---
It's not outputting any more.  It's extracting power from a wheel system that is travelling at one speed (frame of reference is the ground) and then applying that power to a propeller system travelling at a different speed (frame of reference is the wind).

This is the concept you continually dismiss, bypass or ignore.  It is THE heart of the Blackbird doing what it can - and has - done.  By refusing to even consider this concept as a possibility you are condemned to remain ignorant.



--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 19, 2021, 04:53:51 am ---... when the obvious solution was to look for an energy storage device.
--- End quote ---
No.  The obvious solution would be to see if you could find out a way it COULD work.  This is something you continually refuse to do.

It is clear you cannot think outside your own comfort zone - which means you are destined to remain ignorant of the many possibilities that exist.


--- Quote ---It is exactly like those motor generators setups where a motors drives a generator usually trough a gear ratio change and generator supplies the motor.
--- End quote ---
It's nothing like that - but you seemed hung up on standing your ground with this concept and your totally flawed "modelling" of that.


--- Quote ---There people use tricks like adding a large flywheel (mechanical energy storage device) or even hide a battery to trick people.
Here there was no intent in deceiving (at least I do not think it was) but just did not understood that there is an energy storage device and that is what powers the vehicle above wind speed.
--- End quote ---
Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true.


--- Quote ---The sad part is that people with a PhD in physics get tricked by this.
--- End quote ---
No.  The sad part is the people who think they know better - and and either won't listen or cannot comprehend an objective process to describe what is going on.


--- Quote --- That university professor that lost the bet (his fault for gambling) said nothing wrong in Derek's video but since it was unable to explain how the treadmill prototype worked it was forced to pay the money not to be seen as not honoring his obligations.  He should have asked for help and try to understand why it works then make that information public.
--- End quote ---
Poor, dumb professor.


--- Quote ---Unfortunately school is mostly for those that can memorize facts and equations an understanding is completely irrelevant.     

--- End quote ---
Sounds like someone we all know here....     ::)
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on December 19, 2021, 05:10:18 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on December 19, 2021, 04:58:42 am ---But keep in mind the main discussion here is about blackbird that is not allowed to travel at any angle other than direct down wind.

--- End quote ---

Hmmm.  Is that true for the propeller blades?  Are they going straight downwind?

--- End quote ---

Yes they are. You are just confused by that super bad example with the cylindrical earth.
Just think about the fact that propeller is fixed to the vehicle and propeller blades can only move around the shaft so when vehicle is at wind speed or above there is no air particle that is going to push against the propeller. The properer since it rotates will push some air back but that is not wind powering the vehicle.  Of course there is that pressure differential that you refuse to acknowledge and that will push the vehicle for some short amount of time.
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