Metal Lathe

[gnif]

Hi all,

I know this is not likely the forum for this, but thought I would put this out there. I would like to try to obtain a very basic lathe to learn on, cheap to free would be great. I know very little about them at this point but can see how valuable a tool this would be for my home shop. Does anyone have any recommendations on where to go/look? or even have an old one laying about collecting dust and needs work? The quality and size of the tool does not matter at this point as it is just to experiment and learn with until I decide if I should save for a nice one, id just like it to have enough torque to cut aluminium at the very least.

[TerraHertz]

Hare & Forbes.
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Home
New, but have a wide range of sizes, from small cheap Chinese models, up to 'can't afford even the space to put it' huge.
Their showrooms are fun. You can see lots of lathes, and talk to the staff.

As for second hand... I don't know. 2nd hand dealers I hear of seem to go out of business.

Torque is not a problem, they'll all be fine in that respect. Primary issues are things like throw diameter (centerline to bed), diameter of chuck and spindle bore, gearing ranges, ability to do screw cutting repeated passes, flexible mounting system on saddle, 3 and or 4 jaw chucks, facility for taper cutting, and so on.

I think SeanB will have more to say on this than me.

In which city are you?

[dave_k]

Apologies if you have already read this, but this might be a interesting article for you:

http://www.clickspringprojects.com/blog/which-lathe-should-i-buy

[notsob]

The lathe is the cheap bit. the tools etc are where it starts to cost. Make sure that it has a dial indicator for threading , a lot of the SIEG lathes do NOT. Also in these days get a Variable speed unit, a lot of the older ones require that you change gears and belts whenever you want a speed change

[notsob]

Also look at Keith Fenner and Abom79 youtube channels and their associated youtubers, you will learn a lot from them

[gnif]

In which city are you?

Blue Mountains, Katoomba

At this point the accuracy and feature set are not so important, it is just to have a play around and learn. Sort of like getting your first 10MHz CRO .

Also look at Keith Fenner and Abom79 youtube channels and their associated youtubers, you will learn a lot from them

Indeed, this is what has got me interested

[rob77]

the main question is what materials are you going to play with and what size of parts you going to make while playing

if the answer non-ferrous metals (aluminium, copper, brass...) then you can safely go for a small lathe (less rigid) if the parts you'll be making will be really small then you can go for a micro lathe.

i'm more than happy with a proxxon FD150, but i'm making only small aluminium parts.


for larger non-ferrous parts you can go for those mini lathes from china.

but if you plan to turn steel parts then you need a bigger machine which is rigid enough and has some torque

[gnif]

if the answer non-ferrous metals (aluminium, copper, brass...) then you can safely go for a small lathe (less rigid) if the parts you'll be making will be really small then you can go for a micro lathe.

Correct, non-ferrous, soft metals, nothing fancy.

[nessatse]

The chinese minilathes (7x14, etc) are very capable little machines for the price.  They are made by various manufacturers but are all very similar.  Check out http://www.mini-lathe.com/ for lots of information

[Muttley Snickers]

Unfortunately down here smaller used lathes are always in high demand and do fetch good money with older Hercus, Ward, Qualos and other brands regularly getting as much or more than a new lesser quality unit of the same size, in regards to a new lathe as TerraHertz mentioned earlier Hafco are probably the largest national company for a variety of machinery and I just got their November sale flyer with the average savings around 10%.

Even for a small machine along with some basic tooling and measurement gear you can easily spend a couple of grand but stay away from combination lathe/ milling machines altogether unless of course somebody is giving one away as they are pretty ordinary. There are a couple of threads around here on milling machines so read those first as similar advice and guidelines apply, I run an AL320G at home and it severely lacks quality but seems to get the job done.

Nearly forgot, don't buy any tooling from Hafco without checking out other suppliers first, you can generally get the same or better quality tools elsewhere for a hell of a lot cheaper, I get most of mine from David at Auna Tools down here in Melboune but there are also some very good local Ebay sellers around as well. 

[nctnico]

I like my uncle's 4 decade old lathe much better then my father's cheap Chinese one. I guess if I where looking for a lathe I'd go for a second hand one. Transporting it would be the biggest problem though because many are big and heavy.

[Gyro]

I use a Sieg C1 at home. It's smaller that the standard 7x14 etc. but still has reasonable capacity for normal electronics related stuff. It is surprisingly strongly built, all cast iron and steel, with taper roller spindle bearings. It's not without its shortcomings but it does have a powered leadscrew for screwcutting, unlike most other 'micro' ones (the leadscrew is under the bed), standard MT tapers and a very large T slotted surface on the cross slide (unlike the bigger ones). The big advantage over the bigger Chinese ones... It's just light enough to pick up and move around.

http://www.siegind.com/products_detail/productId=153.html

The C1 isn't as easy to find as it used to be but I think it is still available under various brand names if you hunt around.


Edit: The Yahoo Group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/C1minilathe/info

[C]

Might want to ask around your area, especially the old timers.
Might start asking at some machine shops in area.

Might not even need to buy one.
Was an automatic transmission shop here that had a full machine shop out back, guy knew who had what in the area and what could be bought.
Some old time farmers have shops.
Might come across the big and heavy old thing that was replaced with something newer.
More important is the knowledge some old timers have.

[lowimpedance]

Another place to look for tooling etc is Mcjing  (yes i know !) in Yagoona.
Quality is good enough for home workshops.

https://mcjing.com.au/default.aspx

or Mick Moyles in Summer hill

http://www.moyles.com.au/

Taiwanese made lathes generally have better quality control than the mainland China manufactured machines, how ever they are more than adequate for home use.
A thing to note with old second / third ... hand Hercus lathes etc ,the slide ways are not hardened and most will show considerable wear leading to accuracy issues.
Also spindle bore is limited too. (model 9 specifically, the 260 has a larger bore)
 And accessories are usually not included and must be sourced elsewhere with more cost.

An interesting site for historical information on lathe manufactures etc is here   ; http://www.lathes.co.uk/hercus/    , (lots more than Hercus of course)
Hours of reading !

If soft materials are all you will do a smaller machine will be much easier to transport and to find a suitable location in your workshop.
You will find workshop placement will become important when its time to clean up the swarf , particularly 60/40 brass    (the most common type)

[CatalinaWOW]

The following link is very US oriented, but you can find a lot of discussions about getting used lathes and getting them working perfectly, as well as discussions of various beginning to advanced projects on lathes.

http://www.machinistweb.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1

Used lathes are probably a tough buy for a beginner.  The advantage is that the price usually includes a lot of necessary tooling not included with a new lathe.  For this reason they can often be a tremendous bargain. 

The disadvantage is that there are many points of failure on a lathe, and if not properly maintained many things can wear until the lathe is unusable, and possibly even not repairable.  Even the pros have trouble evaluating a lathe sitting in a barn or the back of a shop. 

All that said, I encourage you to get into it.  I have a lathe and find it indispensable and fun, with something being made every couple of weeks.  It even gets used for electronic stuff making knobs, bushings, spacers and similar things.  It is nice to be able to have the exact right part rather than trying to make something work.

[smithnerd]

Just want to recommend a good book on the subject.

I started with 'The Amateur's Lathe' by L. H. Sparey. First published in 1948, but still an excellent primer.

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

Lathes vary considerably, what are you looking to do? 
Personally recommend staying away from the cheap but new Chinese 'personal' lathes, and look for a used 'real' lathe. You can (at least in the US) find used lathes in the 2k-3k usd range that are good.
Also don't let age/looks fool you, manual lathes from the 60's (or earlier) are often very very good machines.... some of the best manual lathes available.

[TerraHertz]

In which city are you?

Blue Mountains, Katoomba

Well, if Bankstown area isn't too far to drive, you're welcome to come and have a play with my lathe. More as an illustration of why NOT to get an old imperial measurements unit. It's a very old 9 inch Sheraton, no frills, no variable speed drive, no CNC. And I'm totally self-taught, so far from expert and probably do half the things wrong.

Something sad: When I was in high school there was an extensive industrial arts block, with rows of lathes and other machine tools, and we got to use them. Today... a friend of mine works as tech support at a large Sydney high school. That school has a back room, where they put the very few lathes and other large power tools they used to run. These days they absolutely are not allowed to let students anywhere near them, for 'safety' reasons. So students never get to touch such things. I don't think the teachers can even demonstrate... Just more dumbing down and deskilling. (Which imo is deliberate.)

Anyway, probably most high schools today have such machines, just waiting to be sent to scrap. But do any ever come on the second hand market? Not that I've ever heard. I'm certain the types of machines that used to be in high schools in my era never hit the 2nd hand market, since if they had there'd be thousands of them around. They were built to last forever.
There's a faint chance I may be able to negotiate something with those ones, which I've personally seen. But I doubt it.

Transporting it would be the biggest problem though because many are big and heavy.

Something to check when considering any lathe: can it be easily disassembled into parts you can personally lift and move around?
That's one of the (few) good things about my lathe. If you need to resort to fork lifts and such, there's a whole new dimension of cost.

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

Transporting it would be the biggest problem though because many are big and heavy.

Something to check when considering any lathe: can it be easily disassembled into parts you can personally lift and move around?
That's one of the (few) good things about my lathe. If you need to resort to fork lifts and such, there's a whole new dimension of cost.

Most tool room lathes can be moved via utility trailer or pickup truck. Load/unload from bed, call a vehicle towing company and ask for boom lift service (~$100). To position in garage, rent a pallet jack.   

[STMartin]

I've often thought about picking up some metalwork tools and skills as well.

The best bench-top equipment I could find was from a company called Sherline: http://sherline.com/ - although they're based in the US. Kinda a small envelope, but from what I remember they were quite capable.

[Paul Moir]

If you can get your hands on a used real lathe that isn't clapped out then that's the way to go.  I live in an area where there wasn't a lot of industrial activity so this wasn't an option for me.  So being on a tight budget I started out on a mini-lathe.

The way to look at mini-lathes (or most "budget" Chinese simple manual lathes < $10000) is that they are kits which have been assembled so they fit in a crate.  While they do actually operate, they need a lot of hand finishing to work well.  Finishing them can be a great educational experience if that is what you're after, but if you just want to turn parts they will be frustrating.  I probably spent a good year making stuff for the lathe or modding the lathe rather than making anything useful. 

If you have a project in mind, there are couple critical dimensions you'll want to look at.  Swing over the cross slide (not just swing, which is kind of useless for anything long) and bed length.  Bed length should be at least twice what you plan to work on, since for example if you want to bore a part you'll need n length for the part and another n for the boring bar.  Note if the part is particularly long (over 4:1) you'll likely need to support the end with the tailstock which takes more bed length.  Weight is also very important as it implies rigidity which is good for precision and/or heavy turning. 

If you have a budget in mind, know that you'll spend about half of it on the lathe and then the other half on accessories.  A lathe by itself is rather useless; you'll need tool bits, drills, chucks, centres, measuring devices (caliper, feeler gauge & dial gauge is enough but a DTI gets handy especially if you get a 4-jaw, and you'll certainly end up with a mic & snap gauges at some stage), a bench grinder and of course some material to make stuff out of.  The more expensive the lathe, the more expensive the stuff you're going to need to go with it. 

Anyone selling a machine tool with an aluminium bed is either cruel, or doesn't understand materials.  One of the many reasons cast iron is used for machine tools is that it dampens vibrations.  Try to make a tuning fork out of cast iron.  Then make one out of aluminium.  Trust me on this.

The lathe is the ultimate tool though.  It's ancient.  It's as precise as your skill allows.  It can really make just about anything on it; not just round things.  You are no longer at the mercy of what's available to you at the moment.  Just tonight I needed a 1.5" pipe thread nut that none of the hardware stores I visited had anything like.  No problem, I just made my own.

[tautech]

When I got my 3 phase Harrison 12, some searches found this site:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html
There's a multitude of brands and models listed there, each with some history and specs.
There's a truckload of resources there too, much of it basic but perfect for the novice:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/

[gnif]

Thanks everyone for your input, as always it is very much appreciated.

This have given me much to think about and read. I would love to find an old disused machine that has been replaced, but unfortunately where I live such things are unheard of. A small bench type machine would be great just to learn the basics and get a feel for how much I would actually use it. At the moment it is one of those tools that I can see being very useful, but I cant see exactly where I will use it yet, sometimes even the simple tools surprise you (ie: cheapo atten hot air gun, has a million and one uses!).

If anyone knows of such a machine that has been deprecated/replaced... etc, I would greatly appreciate the tip .

TBH though, my budget is little to none for this but at least I will be prepared if/when the opportunity presents itself.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Blue Mountains, Katoomba

Hi gnif. I suggest you pop around to the local Men's Shed (6 Orient St, Katoomba) - we have a number of metal/wood lathes and other metal/wood working tools PLUS people who are more than willing to offer advice on their use.

You would be most welcome. Open hours 9-2pm Tues - Thur (though not much good if you work during the week ).

Bob

PS There is also a small group starting up some basic electronics with a few basic instruments.

[TerraHertz]

Hi gnif. I suggest you pop around to the local Men's Shed (6 Orient St, Katoomba) - we have a number of metal/wood lathes and other metal/wood working tools PLUS people who are more than willing to offer advice on their use.

Is there any kind of network of these things? Are there any in Sth Sydney?

Because I'd like to get involved in something like that. Perhaps I might meet some old machinists who wouldn't mind teaching me stuff. I know _no one_ with such actual skills, as opposed to guesswork and fudgery, which is what I do.

Currently looking forward to my new (cheap) 3D printer arriving next week. I do know a couple of people knowledgeable with those, who'll help me get started.