Metric in Australia

[Dataforensics]

Not electronics, but I am curious.

Just watched a History channel doc on mega machine maintenance.
There was a fairly young guy working for Quantas in Brisbane on an Airbus plane.
He mentioned how accurate torque settings are required, but used inch pounds as an example.
Apart from Airbus using metric I would have though such an industry in Australia would be too.

Wondering if this was done specifically as History channel US and that's possibly where main audience is ?

[Nusa]

I don't know the answer on what Airbus uses, but I do know that Quantas flies about 40 Airbus planes and 90 Boeing planes. So any mechanic working for Quantas better be able to handle imperial units.

Even if Boeing were to go metric, they'd only do it for brand new designs. Trying to change measurement systems and parts inventories on an existing design, especially one that's still being built, would just be asking for the kind of confusion and mistakes that could get people killed.

[jeremy]

My brother used to work in a similar area here in Australia (more as a design engineer though). He said it’s not unusual for standards or documentation to have metres, kilometres, feet, miles, nautical miles, etc all in one document, and sometimes even in the same sentence. Apparently it’s a result of the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mindset in aerospace.

[gbaddeley]

Qantas, folks, there is no U. The techs would be using whatever units are specified in the maintenance manuals. Australia has been metric since the early 1970’s (?) but there are still some cases where inches still prevail. Eg. automotive tyre sizes are inches in diameter but millimetres in width.

[Rerouter]

If your an engineer, you generally work metric, but occasionally convert
If your a builder, Metric is a norm, but enough grey beards using imperial has kept it mixed
If your a technician, you use what ever units the documentation is printed in,

Through my job its generally only people over 55 that use imperial first, metric second,

Building supplies are flooded with imperial stuff as its produced in china to sell to as many markets as possible, so while they may list both units,they tend to gravitate to imperial rounded sizes,

Agricultural is almost always metric as far as I have seen, hoses and valves being 13 or 25mm instead of 1/2" or 1",

Automotive, flat out metric, even american branded trucks tend to use metric fasteners these days.

[GlennSprigg]

You are right!!  MOST History Chanel stuff, and the like, is aimed towards the (let's face it)
majority of U.S. observers. If we, (they), spoke about modern "Newton-Metres" etc., instead
of "Foot-Pounds" etc., then the majority would have no clue what is being talked about !

That being said... Here in Australia, we changed over to Metric a LONG time ago, but we can
still go into some hardware stores and find 4" bolts, of say 1/2" diameter. Although our global
Bunnings Stores now are virtually totally Metric regarding all Bolts/Screws/Fittings etc.
Our Tape-Measures show BOTH still, so as to please everybody 

Maps/Distances/Signs were changed literally overnight, on the 14th Feb. 1966 to Kilometres !!
....OOPS!  Edit....  That was for currency ($).  Road Signs changed in 1974 in Australia)....
One air-crash at least, occurred overseas once, when Litres were mistaken for Gallons, when
a jet ran out of fuel and crashed!!   The whole WORLD should be METRIC now !!!   

It's not a matter of "what one is used to".  It's a change for common sense !
None of this 12" to a foot. 1760 yards to a mile. 8 pints to a gallon, (hang on, U.S. gallons ??).
What could be simpler than say......
  1000 Metres = 1 Kilometre.
  1 Litre = 1 Kilogram  (of water, at 21-deg-c at sea level..)
  1 MilliLitre = 1 MilliGram.    ....OOPS!  Edit...  1 MilliLitre = 1 Gram !!!  (of water)
  1 Cubic Metre of water is a Metric Ton, and is 1000 Litres !!!  etc. etc.  (of water)
How can it possibly be more simple ? !!       sigh...

[apis]

That being said... Here in Australia, we changed over to Metric a LONG time ago, but we can
still go into some hardware stores and find 4" bolts, of say 1/2" diameter. Although our global
Bunnings Stores now are virtually totally Metric regarding all Bolts/Screws/Fittings etc.
Our Tape-Measures show BOTH still, so as to please everybody 

Sweden adopted metric in 1876, and we also have both scales on tape-measures, I suspect it has to do with being able to sell the same items in and outside of the USA.

[Gromitt]

... and we also have both scales on tape-measures ...

Not for the last 30-40 years we haven't. The only times I have seen that is on cheap stuff from China.

[apis]

Not for the last 30-40 years we haven't. The only times I have seen that is on cheap stuff from China.

I checked and both my tape-measure and my steel ruler has inches and feet, as do newer "folding carpenters' rulers" (tumstock), but maybe that's because I only buy cheap imported stuff. I do have an older tumstock that is metric only. Maybe it's only the imported ones that use both scales. But that would indicate the imported stuff is intended to be sold on both markets. Plastic rulers for desk use are only metric though.

[Brumby]

Maps/Distances/Signs were changed literally overnight, on the 14th Feb. 1966 to Kilometres !!

Ah ... no.  The 14th of February 1966 was when we changed to decimal currency.  I know, I was there and I can still hear the jingle in my head.

The road sign changeover happened over the month of July, 1974.

[Brumby]

  1 MilliLitre = 1 MilliGram.

Sometimes you really need a proof reader.  (You're not helping the "Metric is wonderful" argument!)

[Gromitt]

Not for the last 30-40 years we haven't. The only times I have seen that is on cheap stuff from China.

I checked and both my tape-measure and my steel ruler has inches and feet, as do newer "folding carpenters' rulers" (tumstock), but maybe that's because I only buy cheap imported stuff. I do have an older tumstock that is metric only. Maybe it's only the imported ones that use both scales. But that would indicate the imported stuff is intended to be sold on both markets. Plastic rulers for desk use are only metric though.

I have steel rulers, tape-measures and "tumstockar" that are just mm. I also have older ones (as in 35+ years) that are both mm and inch.

[plurn]

  1 MilliLitre = 1 MilliGram.

Sometimes you really need a proof reader.  (You're not helping the "Metric is wonderful" argument!)

Doh - that is another jet crashed - carrying too much weight this time.

[rstofer]

Automotive, flat out metric, even american branded trucks tend to use metric fasteners these days.

Some time back, like around '90, I had a Ford Ranger pickup truck.  The chassis used SAE fasteners and the driveline used metric.  To remove the transmission, I had to use SAE tools to remove the rear cross-member but metric tools to unbolt it from the bell housing.

The US should have never let automobiles into the country if they used metric fasteners.  It put US mechanics at a competitive disadvantage because we had to buy two toolsets.  Good for SnapOn, not so good for mechanics.

[james_s]

I had one of those Rangers too and I remember the mix of metric and imperial.

Never seemed like a big deal to me though, I've had a mix of metric and imperial tools for as long as I've had tools. Any decent mechanic is going to need to have both unless they work on *only* one kind of vehicle, and the cost is what, a few grand at most for top notch sockets and wrenches? In most cases much less since you don't really need a full set or top notch of everything. I've had to buy Allen and Torx sockets and wrenches too for cars that use some of those, and various special tools for specific tasks on specific vehicles I've owned or worked on, so what? Suggesting blocking the importation of vehicles over the fastener types they use just makes our mechanics sound like incompetent boobs.

As far as torque settings, my torque wrenches have both imperial and metric units on them and I use whatever units are printed in the shop manual. Anyone dumb enough to have difficulty with that is not someone I'd want touching any of my equipment.

[Nusa]

  1 MilliLitre = 1 MilliGram.

Sometimes you really need a proof reader.  (You're not helping the "Metric is wonderful" argument!)

Doh - that is another jet crashed - carrying too much weight this time.

Aw, off by a factor of 1000? Close enough! Also, usually it's not water at 21C that you need to transport. A Liter of Mercury weighs about 13.5 Kilograms.

Learning rules of thumb to convert between liquid and weight are acceptable for cooking, but can get dangerous when used elsewhere.

[apis]

Also, usually it's not water at 21C that you need to transport.

Surprisingly often liquids are mostly water with small amounts of other stuff dissolved in it so 1 ml is approximately 1 g, I suppose it depends on what you work with though.

[Monkeh]

That being said... Here in Australia, we changed over to Metric a LONG time ago, but we can
still go into some hardware stores and find 4" bolts, of say 1/2" diameter. Although our global
Bunnings Stores now are virtually totally Metric regarding all Bolts/Screws/Fittings etc.
Our Tape-Measures show BOTH still, so as to please everybody 

Sweden adopted metric in 1876, and we also have both scales on tape-measures, I suspect it has to do with being able to sell the same items in and outside of the USA.

Nope. You have to really hunt for such a beast as a metric tape measure in the US. Everything's double labeled in Spanish, but god forbid they have metric anywhere.

[//Matt//]

Metric all day long, none of that imperial rubbish! 

[rstofer]

Nope. You have to really hunt for such a beast as a metric tape measure in the US. Everything's double labeled in Spanish, but god forbid they have metric anywhere.

I built a small sail boat based on a New Zealand design which was in metric, of course.  I had no problem finding dual scale tape measures and my tablesaw already had a dual scale tape.  Not a problem!

I started working on cars in '61 and we didn't have any of this metric nonsense.  Even when I worked for the Mercury dealership back in '68..'69, we still didn't have metric.  It wasn't long in coming...

[Gyro]

The US should have never let automobiles into the country if they used metric fasteners.  It put US mechanics at a competitive disadvantage because we had to buy two toolsets.  Good for SnapOn, not so good for mechanics.

You should tweet that one to Trump. He could use it in trade negotiations.


Edit: Oops, sorry. A bit political.

[Monkeh]

Nope. You have to really hunt for such a beast as a metric tape measure in the US. Everything's double labeled in Spanish, but god forbid they have metric anywhere.

I built a small sail boat based on a New Zealand design which was in metric, of course.  I had no problem finding dual scale tape measures and my tablesaw already had a dual scale tape.  Not a problem!

I started working on cars in '61 and we didn't have any of this metric nonsense.  Even when I worked for the Mercury dealership back in '68..'69, we still didn't have metric.  It wasn't long in coming...

Quick look at Lowes, 62 tapes. One two pack, one three pack, and one four pack included. Of these, there are two which are dual marked. One in thirty-four is plenty of hunting for the most used measurement system in the world..

[james_s]

Nope. You have to really hunt for such a beast as a metric tape measure in the US. Everything's double labeled in Spanish, but god forbid they have metric anywhere.

Tape measures are used in carpentry, carpentry uses imperial units exclusively, why would you expect tape measures to have multiple scales? Metric is the most used measurement system in the world yes, but we're not talking about the world, you're shopping for tape measures in the USA which currently uses imperial units for carpentry. The metric scale would just add visual noise in the intended use case and another opportunity for errors to creep in. If we ever get around to adopting metric then metric tape measures will instantly become widely available but currently if you buy any sort of lumber or building materials in the US it will be in imperial units. General purpose rulers on the other hand almost always have metric on one side and have for decades.

I don't really see a lot of stuff double labeled in Spanish, maybe certain types of things but more often if there's more than one language in addition to English it will have Spanish, French, German and occasionally others. It's not like Canada where everything is required to be in English and French. We have no such laws here mandating any particular language be used. It's all down to understanding who the customer is.

I have no particular attachment to the imperial measurement system and would have been happy to convert to metric decades ago but I don't really have any problem using it either. The UK still uses miles, do you take issue with the fact that speed limit signs having both MPH and KPH are not commonplace?

[Monkeh]

Nope. You have to really hunt for such a beast as a metric tape measure in the US. Everything's double labeled in Spanish, but god forbid they have metric anywhere.

Tape measures are used in carpentry, carpentry uses imperial units exclusively, why would you expect tape measures to have multiple scales? The metric scale would just add visual noise in the intended use case and another opportunity for errors to creep in. If we ever get around to adopting metric then metric tape measures will instantly become widely available but currently if you buy any sort of lumber or building materials in the US it will be in imperial units. General purpose rulers on the other hand almost always have metric on one side and have for decades.

You should check the context of my comment.

Also, you did adopt metric. Decades ago. Nobody bothered to use it because it was too much of a good idea.

The UK still uses miles, do you take issue with the fact that speed limit signs having both MPH and KPH are not commonplace?

If they'd just gone ahead and changed the signs at the time it'd be fine. People now are too stupid.

[james_s]

We did not adopt metric. We use it for some things but officially speaking the US still uses imperial units. The reasons for this are widely varied, some of it is people too stubborn to change to something new and different, some of it is just momentum, it would cost vast sums of money to completely change all of our manufacturing structure, machine tools, threads, fittings and everything in the supply chain from one unit to another so this has delayed adoption.

Either way even the most metric-adopted countries I've visited still have imperial units lurking here and there. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to completely change everything over and that can mean that there is no net gain in changing even when it is widely agreed that the new system is superior. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, even though I personally agree that metric is a vastly superior system in most ways I also have no trouble at all using imperial measurements and I really don't care whether some things change or not. Give me a temperature in Fahrenheit or Celsius, a measurement in inches or millimeters, kilometers or miles, it doesn't matter, I know what they all mean and can translate them roughly in my head on the fly. As long as the tools I'm using have units that match the materials or equipment I'm working with then the actual units are irrelevant, it could be in furlongs or femptoparsecs for all I care.