Author Topic: Microwave weapons?  (Read 14369 times)

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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2018, 03:42:08 pm »
Quote
no one is going to attack a US embassy to give them brain damage
That makes sense, I can't really see what it would gain, all you got to do is make up a story about spying and deport the embassy staff.

From Frey's second paper https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/jappl.1962.17.4.689 the abstract says that peak power density is a critical factor, typically 275mW/cm2 with the average power density being < 1mW/cm2.  So, in Frey's first paper he was quoting average power density. 275mW/cm2 is 2.75kW/m2, don't think I'm going to try this out any time soon.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:46:14 pm by chris_leyson »
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2018, 03:52:52 pm »
I can't do anything about the ultrasonics but this honestly kinda sounds like it belongs on infowars.com.

The ultrasonics idea is real.  It has been proposed and tested as a way to "beam" audio to individuals in a crowd and works through intermodulation at or near the target.  Given the power levels involved, I always thought of it as a dumb idea and safety hazard.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2018, 04:38:53 pm »
No I mean the whole plausibility of attacking a embassy in poor ass Cuba with high end secret weapons for no discernible reason other then to irritate a few spies and risk a serious international incident that would probably result in heavy handed trade sanctions, confiscation of top secret equipment and people being kidnapped and threatened. It's like starting a mafia war no one wants to do it. I could see it in the 1960's maybe, when there were a ton of wars (with no predictable outcome) going on in South America and they wanted to put nuclear missiles in Cuba. With submarines the weight of nearby missile threats is much less so its not as crazy for now.

But how would you do this? Put it in a van and risk it getting stopped or investigated? Putting heavy equipment in a nearby building that can get easily broken into and investigated? There would probably be very easy to see suspicious signs of weird sonic transmitters. I mean what are you gonna do, have every traffic cop in the city on your payroll?



There is not many places you can put it on. A boat, in a building or a risky van. I am pretty sure someone in those apartments would complain. I guess you can have a comical submarine that raises a transmitter. The guards at the front post are gonna be eyeballing big vehicles real heavy.

This is what you got there:


So you can either use a boat/sub, do drive bys, rent an apartment, hide something in the government memorial or use the unknown building (Can't figure out what that thing is)

The apartments are just stupid to use because counterintelligence can rent a nearby one or figure out that its being watched/locked out for some reason and they probably already monitor it, and its really easy to break into residential housing or at least loiter nearby.

drive bys - risk getting stopped by traffic cop or having the CIA crash into you with a dump truck to cut your terror van in half. good luck proving its not just a intoxicated construction worker. Everyone including your mother thinks vans are mega suspicious

hide it in public place/memorial - seriously doubtful

submarine/boat - sounds insane

unknown building -anyone know what it is?

use some kind of robot to attach itself to building - also crazy and it can get captured really easily if spotted

I don't know the range on such things, I guess maybe you can also put it in a far away area that has line of sight if its really focused but the reflector would probably be obvious, or maybe a helicopter or drone

maybe you can hide it in the sewer and use the buildings pipes or have ssome kinda antenna pop out of a man hole, if that area even has sewers, when no one is looking  :-DD
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 05:14:48 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2018, 05:18:38 pm »
lol maybe its a computer virus that is making various power circuits in the building make acoustic noise by modulation, that might make someone think they are experiencing psychotic symptoms of schizophrenia, or some kind of impedance modulation of the mains to make things hum? can you do something like that? perhaps just connect a audio generator to the mains so you can make the transformers tell people to take off their shoes?

but why? there is also a joke that can be made about government employees but I feel a bit bad
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 05:22:02 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline JimRemington

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2018, 06:15:48 pm »
No excuse for not testing for microwaves, all you need is a hand held broad band sensor.

Here is my version detecting the leakage from a properly operating microwave oven. Cost me about $0.65 for the microwave diode.

 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2018, 06:40:43 pm »
No excuse for not testing for microwaves, all you need is a hand held broad band sensor.

Here is my version detecting the leakage from a properly operating microwave oven. Cost me about $0.65 for the microwave diode.



I am interested in that. Can you post the design?
 

Offline JimRemington

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2018, 08:18:39 pm »
That particular detector is a full wave square loop antenna (~2 GHz, lambda/4 = 3.75 cm) with a microwave detector diode, type HSMS-286K, in series with an LED.

Based on http://www.creative-science.org.uk/mobile_LED_simple.html
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2018, 08:28:42 pm »
No I mean the whole plausibility of attacking a embassy in poor ass Cuba with high end secret weapons for no discernible reason other then to irritate a few spies and risk a serious international incident that would probably result in heavy handed trade sanctions, confiscation of top secret equipment and people being kidnapped and threatened. It's like starting a mafia war no one wants to do it. I could see it in the 1960's maybe, when there were a ton of wars (with no predictable outcome) going on in South America and they wanted to put nuclear missiles in Cuba. With submarines the weight of nearby missile threats is much less so its not as crazy for now.

I would say the same thing about Russia conducting assassinations in the UK yet it keeps happening.

Quote
But how would you do this? Put it in a van and risk it getting stopped or investigated? Putting heavy equipment in a nearby building that can get easily broken into and investigated? There would probably be very easy to see suspicious signs of weird sonic transmitters. I mean what are you gonna do, have every traffic cop in the city on your payroll?

I agree it is dumb and given that there is no direct evidence, mass hysteria is more likely but never underestimate national stupidity.
 
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2018, 08:51:27 pm »
Speaking of the "why" aspect probably the most likely in the Cuba situation would be to prevent or deter the US from closer relations with Cuba.  Attack the US embassy in this way and hope the US blames Cuba.  The goal, if this was the strategy, would be to prevent closer relations between the US and Cuba.  The current US admin has already moved to undo some of the easing that took place in the prior admin though I doubt the attack on the embassy played a major role in this change as Cuba has, since the late 50s, always been a political football in the US.

So, without knowing what really happened the fact that brain scans indicate damage suggests something did in fact happen.  This is not likely the work of a disgruntled Cuban intelligence officer bent on attacking the US, where would that person get something capable of doing what appears has in fact happened.  I'm not fully convinced on the microwave idea, but I wouldn't say its impossible either.


Brian
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2018, 08:56:58 pm »
The assumption most posters are making is that embassy staff are being attacked at the embassy. This doesn't appear to be what happened. Staff are complaining of symptoms at their residences, hotel rooms at night when they are sleeping. At least from what I read of the Canadian and some of the US victim reports. One would expect the embassy itself  is hardened and not an easy target. As for motive, if you can disrupt diplomatic staff "extracurricular" activities by causing them to experience brain fog and not have your efforts detected, then the risk threshold is low ( or would be perceived as low).
 

Offline bloguetronica

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2018, 09:06:10 pm »
Hi,

This is probably, if not certainly, fake news. In fact, it microwaves were a problem, then airport staff all over the world would report sickness. I mean, just look at those powerful radars! Microwaves can only cause thermal damage, but that would require a person to be closed inside a metal box with the emitter, just like it happens inside a microwave oven.

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2018, 09:12:51 pm »
The assumption most posters are making is that embassy staff are being attacked at the embassy. This doesn't appear to be what happened. Staff are complaining of symptoms at their residences, hotel rooms at night when they are sleeping. At least from what I read of the Canadian and some of the US victim reports. One would expect the embassy itself  is hardened and not an easy target. As for motive, if you can disrupt diplomatic staff "extracurricular" activities by causing them to experience brain fog and not have your efforts detected, then the risk threshold is low ( or would be perceived as low).

where are the victim reports?
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2018, 09:18:29 pm »
The phrase “sonic attack” caught on quickly after employees reported having heard a constant high-pitched, tinny hum emanating from certain corners of the embassy that would become inaudible if a person moved just a few feet away.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/were-the-cuban-sonic-attack-victims-actually-poisoned

however

The victim complained of hearing extremely loud grinding insect-like noises, and a laser-like sound, but also believes other attacks took place silently overnight. This individual says that beyond attacks targeting homes and hotel rooms, one American embassy employee also experienced an attack inside the hulking U.S. compound.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cuba-attack-victim-we-were-ignored/
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 09:32:01 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2018, 09:45:38 pm »
Hi,

This is probably, if not certainly, fake news. In fact, it microwaves were a problem, then airport staff all over the world would report sickness. I mean, just look at those powerful radars! Microwaves can only cause thermal damage, but that would require a person to be closed inside a metal box with the emitter, just like it happens inside a microwave oven.

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço


The brain scans argue otherwise!


Brian
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2018, 09:49:37 pm »
Hi,

This is probably, if not certainly, fake news. In fact, it microwaves were a problem, then airport staff all over the world would report sickness. I mean, just look at those powerful radars! Microwaves can only cause thermal damage, but that would require a person to be closed inside a metal box with the emitter, just like it happens inside a microwave oven.

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço



The brain scans argue otherwise!


Brian



MRI scans of the U.S. personnel were largely normal, apart from three individuals with nonspecific abnormalities in their white matter—the axons that link nerve cells—that appear to be unrelated to the new syndrome, Smith says. The clear scans are not surprising, he says, because standard MRIs generally don’t reveal signs of a concussion. Rather, damage to the brain’s connections is picked up by a finer-grained MRI technique, diffusion tensor imaging (DTI). The UPenn team is planning to conduct DTI scans of the diplomats. Any connectivity damage should still be visible, Smith says, because DTI scans can pick up such abnormalities months or even years after a concussion.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/us-diplomats-cuba-have-unusual-brain-syndrome-no-there-s-no-clear-proof-they-were
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2018, 09:53:39 pm »
can anyone find the DTI scan results? if published

if someone wants to start looking
https://news.google.com/search?q=cuban%20embassy&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

I feel like the eevblog investigation is chaotic. We need to go through the facts and see what posters are saying, from what news articles its taken, how the story has mutated as facts developed and what is misinformation and what is known fact.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 09:59:41 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2018, 10:07:36 pm »
The assumption most posters are making is that embassy staff are being attacked at the embassy. This doesn't appear to be what happened. Staff are complaining of symptoms at their residences, hotel rooms at night when they are sleeping. At least from what I read of the Canadian and some of the US victim reports. One would expect the embassy itself  is hardened and not an easy target. As for motive, if you can disrupt diplomatic staff "extracurricular" activities by causing them to experience brain fog and not have your efforts detected, then the risk threshold is low ( or would be perceived as low).
\

Also think about this, there is 24 victims (i think), so you are saying they got a team of 24 (probobly at least a few guys per guy if it was indeed some kind of attack) to shadow 24 different people living in all different areas?

Thats 72 people doing field work, backed up by a few officers at least depening on how their organized. Maybe more if you need to do something like watch streets for cops and whatnot and coordinate everything, IMO this would require at least 100 people to pull off.

You don't leave this kind of transmitter unattended if it exists.

Where the hell are you going to get 100 quiet trustworthy people to pull off such an attack without some kind of serious fevor going on? Hardened spetznaz?

Also you would need to manufacture like 24 transmitters if they are all hearing it in their houses (these things don't teleport and moving them around is likely suspicious and always risky because you can get stopped, so what your gonna risk wasting cops on the street?). It's a crazy amount of exposure.

That would be a seriously large black operation that would be expensive and difficult to contain. Other then like MK ULTRA and such tis pretty much unprecedented but you must wonder if those programs evolved to different forms.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 10:13:12 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline helius

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2018, 11:06:34 pm »
Like this I guess?

(the image is the "Gauss gun" from Syndicate (1993)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 12:02:57 am by helius »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2018, 11:17:35 pm »
what game is that
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2018, 02:34:40 am »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2018, 02:41:55 am »
Speaking of the "why" aspect probably the most likely in the Cuba situation would be to prevent or deter the US from closer relations with Cuba.  Attack the US embassy in this way and hope the US blames Cuba.  The goal, if this was the strategy, would be to prevent closer relations between the US and Cuba.  The current US admin has already moved to undo some of the easing that took place in the prior admin though I doubt the attack on the embassy played a major role in this change as Cuba has, since the late 50s, always been a political football in the US.

So, without knowing what really happened the fact that brain scans indicate damage suggests something did in fact happen.  This is not likely the work of a disgruntled Cuban intelligence officer bent on attacking the US, where would that person get something capable of doing what appears has in fact happened.  I'm not fully convinced on the microwave idea, but I wouldn't say its impossible either.


Brian

Also I thought of this: Cuba is cooperating, meaning its wasting its police and investigatory forces if it staged the attack. So you have to wonder, if Putin paying off the Cuban government with some kind of slush fund? If no immediate steps were taken, does the Cuban government really trust the Russian government enough to 'spot' some kind of benefit in the future? If they did not get an immediate payoff of some kind, they defiantly know they can get completely ripped off. They know America can hurt them real bad if they decide to do something like a full naval blockade.

That means you have a bunch of high tech equipment and operatives that have highly classified information in Cuba. If the government is not cooperating then you are more likely to get captured. For a false flag its really out there IMO.

Ok, assuming they attacked people in their houses and attacked the embassy, this means what, you either go through customs with like 100 people over how long a period? smuggling in equipment slowly... Or, you notice the Cuban government is really shitty, so you find a bunch of special forces that look like they belong there indiginously (good luck Russia or china, where the fuck are you gonna find trust worthy mercenaries or internal forces that won't stand out in Spanish Cuba), use an operative or computer hackers to generate a bunch of false identities and move them in using a submarine. Then what, do they slowly immigrate out? stay there the rest of their lives? disappear back on a submarine? I doubt they could just use old spies for this, because any of them could be compromised, and this would be super juicy.

Cuba is mad poor, the resources they have towards anti curruption and police work are already pretty low, the cuban goverment knows that if its wasting its own guys on cooperating with the FBI when they know its bogus, criminal activity will prosper... so for a poor country like that, its shooting yourself in the foot... does not make sense unless their compensated some how. Plus the police are very busy running a police state to prevent cuban freedom movements from getting strong. The FBI will probably notice if they are doing a half assed job.

I still think its too crazy to be some kind of physics based attack. Poison maybe, a squad of a few people could break into a bunch of houses and poison food I guess. It would need to be well planned but you would need much less people then to maintain a buncha secret equipment all over the fucking place. Russia sure likes poison. They can probably engineer something with a time delay. But this would require some kind of novel poison.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 02:53:49 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2018, 02:52:26 am »
If there is something mad in this story than this is your ideas.
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2018, 07:09:30 am »
Speaking of the "why" aspect probably the most likely in the Cuba situation would be to prevent or deter the US from closer relations with Cuba.  Attack the US embassy in this way and hope the US blames Cuba.  The goal, if this was the strategy, would be to prevent closer relations between the US and Cuba.  The current US admin has already moved to undo some of the easing that took place in the prior admin though I doubt the attack on the embassy played a major role in this change as Cuba has, since the late 50s, always been a political football in the US.

So, without knowing what really happened the fact that brain scans indicate damage suggests something did in fact happen.  This is not likely the work of a disgruntled Cuban intelligence officer bent on attacking the US, where would that person get something capable of doing what appears has in fact happened.  I'm not fully convinced on the microwave idea, but I wouldn't say its impossible either.


Brian

Also I thought of this: Cuba is cooperating, meaning its wasting its police and investigatory forces if it staged the attack. So you have to wonder, if Putin paying off the Cuban government with some kind of slush fund? If no immediate steps were taken, does the Cuban government really trust the Russian government enough to 'spot' some kind of benefit in the future? If they did not get an immediate payoff of some kind, they defiantly know they can get completely ripped off. They know America can hurt them real bad if they decide to do something like a full naval blockade.

That means you have a bunch of high tech equipment and operatives that have highly classified information in Cuba. If the government is not cooperating then you are more likely to get captured. For a false flag its really out there IMO.

Ok, assuming they attacked people in their houses and attacked the embassy, this means what, you either go through customs with like 100 people over how long a period? smuggling in equipment slowly... Or, you notice the Cuban government is really shitty, so you find a bunch of special forces that look like they belong there indiginously (good luck Russia or china, where the fuck are you gonna find trust worthy mercenaries or internal forces that won't stand out in Spanish Cuba), use an operative or computer hackers to generate a bunch of false identities and move them in using a submarine. Then what, do they slowly immigrate out? stay there the rest of their lives? disappear back on a submarine? I doubt they could just use old spies for this, because any of them could be compromised, and this would be super juicy.

Cuba is mad poor, the resources they have towards anti curruption and police work are already pretty low, the cuban goverment knows that if its wasting its own guys on cooperating with the FBI when they know its bogus, criminal activity will prosper... so for a poor country like that, its shooting yourself in the foot... does not make sense unless their compensated some how. Plus the police are very busy running a police state to prevent cuban freedom movements from getting strong. The FBI will probably notice if they are doing a half assed job.

I still think its too crazy to be some kind of physics based attack. Poison maybe, a squad of a few people could break into a bunch of houses and poison food I guess. It would need to be well planned but you would need much less people then to maintain a buncha secret equipment all over the fucking place. Russia sure likes poison. They can probably engineer something with a time delay. But this would require some kind of novel poison.


It is possible that the noise and other things were theater to cover the use of a chemical agent of some kind -- you know, a diversion.  And, as you rightly point out, Russia is not averse to using chemical or even radioactive agents to harm/kill people.

The thing with Putin's Russia though is that they like the world to know they did it hence the use of agents no street criminal can get there hands on, but in this case they, if they were involved, they have made no effort at all to say they did it unless the measures used is the signature.  But, you have to recognize the signature.

The fact that there are many people effected and some exhibit damage to there brains suggest that something indeed is going on, but just what is being used and by whom is in my mind -- not settled.  The idea that Russia might wish to keep the US from becoming too friendly with Cuba is, perhaps, the most reasonable reason does tend to point a finger at them, but absent something more definitive as a cause there's too little to go on and too many possibilities.  The only other culprit that comes to mind might be Venezuela, but one would think they are not quite in the spy-versus-spy league as is Russia, the UK and the USA.


Brian
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2018, 07:46:03 am »
A microwave weapon is not really practical: due to the rather large wavelength, there is no such thing like a really focused beam, unless one uses a huge antenna. The usual 70 cm satellite dishes have an opening angle in the 3 degree range at 12 GHz. Something like a 5 m dish is difficult to hide and handle.

For the sicknesses, chances are high it's some chemical or biological thing, like contaminated/spoiled food or a virus. Even just the fear caused by rumors could cause psychological problems up to a self fulfilling fear.

Microwave dishes are normally used to either convert what is near enough a "point source" into, effectively, parallel rays or vice versa.
The only place they are focused is at the feedpoint, so they would have to get the victims to place their heads accurately inside the dish!

Normal masonry walls attenuate microwaves quite heavily, so you'd need a lot of power.
People move around, so, even if you somehow solved the "focusing" problem, you are stuck with tracking them.
Blasting hard earned microwave energy into an empty floor of a building would be a bit self defeating.

Surely this is a case were the much maligned "tinfoil hat" could be used to prove, or disprove, the microwave hypothesis?
 

Offline borjam

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Re: Microwave weapons?
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2018, 10:06:21 am »
I was surprised to hear that you can induce auditory hallucinations with microwaves. Still, the article has no info on power levels, frequency, etc.  But if you can create auditory hallucinations, it's not a long leap to nausea.
Well, talk to anyone who has had an MRI done, especially of the head/neck area.  They now run insane amounts of RF power to wobble the Hydrogen atoms, like 13 KW pulsed.  Also, they run strong AC magnetic fields to introduce the magnetic gradient.  The gradient coils make clunking/chattering noises, but the patient hears all sorts of higher frequency noise from the RF.
I've had several done recently (nose, shoulder, neck). What I heard was vibrtion from the magnets apart from the usual clattering. Some of the funny artifacts were beating/phasing effects due to magnets running at somewhat different frequencies. I didn't hear any sounds "inside my head" or from strange directions.

Trying to figure out what I was hearing helped me endure 2.5 hours inside the thing. I am not claustrophobic (I have done spelunking in the past) but it can be boring even for a clam.
 


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