Author Topic: Migrating from Windows to Linux  (Read 8940 times)

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Offline amspire

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2018, 09:10:13 pm »
Gimp has become a waste of time. Krita is the free photo editor to use on Linux or even Windows. Full floating point support for RGB!
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2018, 09:47:28 pm »
Gimp has become a waste of time. Krita is the free photo editor to use on Linux or even Windows. Full floating point support for RGB!
Thanks!  I'll have to try it out.

Jon
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2018, 12:38:57 am »
I've said this for a while but Windows 7 is the last version of Windows I'll be using, unless Microsoft performs some miraculous back flip. I've been a Windows guy since version 3.1 and pretty much know every version between 3.x to Windows 7 like the back of my hand. I can fix problems with my eyes closed.

Moving to Linux is something I've been dreading, because everything I spent decades learning is all of sudden largely irrelevant.

I'm considering Ubuntu as my primary OS. There are a few programs I use where there is no Linux replacement, but I can just run them under WINE or in a VM, I'm happy with that.

What advice would you give to a Linux noob? What habits do I need to break? What habits do I need to learn?


I run with all three, Windows, Linux and Mac (in that preferred order) in all flavours, mainly because people threw their viri laden PC and MACkered boxes at me to fix for a fee,
so I got up to speed with them quickly because the issues weren't always hardware related

Windows 7 is good for many more years, as is 8 and 8.1,
and 10 is ok too if you strip back all the embedded stuff in it and lose the metro box BS, there are apps that do that btw  :clap:

I can't see why a fresh Windows 7 installed in 10 years time with installed apps won't work with or without the hyped updates
New software authors and motherboard manufacturers may still cater for it and supply any updates or patches to make it work with Win 7
A lot of recent stuff works on XP and 2000 afaik

Linux is no biggie to get into, stick to the popular desktop versions and find one you like.
The Linux Live DVDs let you stuff about without harming your PC
The Command line thing you can either have a go at, or give it a miss and use the GUI

I found with Linux if you do a little at a time and surf the menus to get familiar, it feels very Windows-ish after a bit
and Right Click with a mouse works with Linux, unlike the two handed Mac acrobatics  :--

Macs are a no no  |O  unless they are new and shiny with all the apps in place, and the user doesn't stuff around with them and just uses it responsibly,
and or the cheap as chips hardware (Logic Board) doesn't go belly up after the warranty  [$$ :-[ $$]



 

« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 01:34:13 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2018, 01:42:32 am »
I can't see why a fresh Windows 7 installed in 10 years time with installed apps won't work with or without the hyped updates
New software authors and motherboard manufacturers may still cater for it and supply any updates or patches to make it work with Win 7
A lot of recent stuff works on XP and 2000 afaik

Extended support for Windows 7 ends in 2020, after that no more updates. Which is fine for the most part.

The issue will be activation, Microsoft can just stop supporting activation of Windows 7 whenever they feel like it. It's already happened with Microsoft Office. Sure there are ways around it, but still. For a while now, you just can't get drivers for Windows 7 for some new hardware which becomes a pain if you want to upgrade your machine.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2018, 02:50:02 am »
The driver support thing does work both ways.  I have a fifteen year old HP multi-function printer.  Under windows about all that is left is printing, and the paper handling is limited.  The original software that supported scanning and other functions no longer runs.  But under Linux I can still use the full functionality of the machine.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2018, 04:36:41 am »
Gimp has become a waste of time. Krita is the free photo editor to use on Linux or even Windows. Full floating point support for RGB!

This is a perfect example of what happens when you dive into Linux.  First, it is generous advice on an "even better" version of an application to do something.

Then you go to the Krita website.  Where it is lauded as an artists tool to generate graphics, paintings, illustrations and the like.

Well maybe it has good photo handling tools so it is good for photos even though aimed at artists.  Lets download it and give it a try.  Now I have two choices. Try it in Linux or in Windows.  On the Linux tab it says you download Appimages which may or may not be Krita.  On Windows you have three choices.  A paid version from the Windows App Store, a Krita installer and a Portable version.  What are the differences between an installed version and a portable version?

So back to the web page to find out.  Where I find that until 2009 Krita was trying to be a photo manipulation program like GIMP or Photoshop.  But since 2009 it has been purely focused on painting.  Is this really the best image manipulation choice?  If I need full floating point color control maybe so.  But then I am a guy and am challenged to name more than 16 colors.  Somewhere beyond 65000 is perilously close to overkill.  Since I know from my electro-optic career that the instantaneous dynamic range of the human vision system is barely eight bits.


So, another case where I can make a hobby out of tweaking my computing tool, or carry on with the hobbies I already have.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2018, 04:39:03 am »
So another case where you find a way to argue against learning and discovery - and manage to paint an entire OS with the same brush as a single, unrelated program.
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2018, 10:47:39 am »
I can't see why a fresh Windows 7 installed in 10 years time with installed apps won't work with or without the hyped updates
New software authors and motherboard manufacturers may still cater for it and supply any updates or patches to make it work with Win 7
A lot of recent stuff works on XP and 2000 afaik

Extended support for Windows 7 ends in 2020, after that no more updates. Which is fine for the most part.

The issue will be activation, Microsoft can just stop supporting activation of Windows 7 whenever they feel like it. It's already happened with Microsoft Office.

Sure there are ways around it, but still. For a while now, you just can't get drivers for Windows 7 for some new hardware which becomes a pain if you want to upgrade your machine.

Good point, I didn't consider that

That's why since XP, Vista and 7, I always purchase COA licensed OEM PCs from Dell, HP, Acer etc that have Recovery Partitions and or DVDs

A fresh Recovery/re-install is auto activated with drivers ready to go,

no phone calls, no internet or MS BS required   

and no EULA legal suits with court summons at 6 am

with s w a t teams and tank and overhead dr0ne support to back them up if shtf, like you haven't checked emails or finished watching Mailbag  :rant:


I use ancient versions of Office (that still work great) that activate via the serial key on the CD or Retail Box (1997 > 2007?)
I don't think you can do the OEM thing with Office =  :-// 




The driver support thing does work both ways.  I have a fifteen year old HP multi-function printer. 
Under windows about all that is left is printing, and the paper handling is limited. 
The original software that supported scanning and other functions no longer runs.  But under Linux I can still use the full functionality of the machine.

Vuescan is the program that fixes those issues in Windows, Mac and Linux

The author adds scanners new and old and addresses any reported bugs asap,

doesn't sit on his ass waiting for the money to just roll in,

hard to beat  :-+   www.hamrick.com/





« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 10:44:39 pm by Electro Detective »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2018, 11:34:48 am »
Restoring a Windows 7 OEM install is not always what is wanted or the best idea. Using the backup recovery partition or disks made with the manufacturers supplied utility program will also reinstall all the bloatware/trial software/potential spyware that was included originally. It can take longer to remove all the junk afterward than it does to do the actual install. And you can never be sure it's all completely gone. It is guaranteed that dregs will be left in the registry. A clean install is often (usually) the better plan of action.

Offline activation of a clean install is not that difficult as long as the necessary files are copied beforehand and there have not been hardware changes. Be sure to download in advance any drivers you might need (chipset, network, video, sound, etc.).
 

Online bd139

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2018, 11:35:36 am »
I can't see why a fresh Windows 7 installed in 10 years time with installed apps won't work with or without the hyped updates
New software authors and motherboard manufacturers may still cater for it and supply any updates or patches to make it work with Win 7
A lot of recent stuff works on XP and 2000 afaik

Extended support for Windows 7 ends in 2020, after that no more updates. Which is fine for the most part.

The issue will be activation, Microsoft can just stop supporting activation of Windows 7 whenever they feel like it. It's already happened with Microsoft Office.

Sure there are ways around it, but still. For a while now, you just can't get drivers for Windows 7 for some new hardware which becomes a pain if you want to upgrade your machine.

Good point, I didn't consider that

That's why since XP, Vista and 7, I always purchase COA licensed OEM PCs from Dell, HP, Acer etc that have Recovery Partitions and or DVDs

A fresh Recovery/re-install is auto activated with drivers ready to go,

no phone calls, no internet or MS BS required   

and no EULA legal suits with court summons at 6 am

with s w a t teams and tank and overhead dr0ne support to back them up if shtf, like you haven't checked emails or finished watching Mailbag  :rant:


I use ancient versions of Office (that still work great) that activate via the serial key on the CD or Retail Box (1997 > 2007?)
I don't think you can do the OEM thing with Office =  :-// 




The driver support thing does work both ways.  I have a fifteen year old HP multi-function printer. 
Under windows about all that is left is printing, and the paper handling is limited. 
The original software that supported scanning and other functions no longer runs.  But under Linux I can still use the full functionality of the machine.

Vuescan is the program that fixes those issues in Windows, Mac and Linux

The author adds printers new and old and addresses any reported bugs asap,

doesn't sit on his ass waiting for the money to just roll in,

hard to beat  :-+   www.hamrick.com/







Why the hell would you spend that money to support something which is cheap to replace?
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2018, 01:17:22 pm »
Vuescan is the program that fixes those issues in Windows, Mac and Linux

Why the hell would you spend that money to support something which is cheap to replace?
I also purchased Vuescan over 10 years ago (It is a once only cost - you get all updates). It is not just to save one cheap scanner, it has probably allowed me to keep using 5 scanners over the years - not all of them cheap.

You often end up with better control of the scanner then the original programs offered. I can use the scanners for free now that everyone else is throwing out. For quick scans, I have a really old Canon LIDE usb powered scanner that has had no drivers since Windows XP.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2018, 01:29:59 pm »
Is this really the best image manipulation choice?  If I need full floating point color control maybe so.  But then I am a guy and am challenged to name more than 16 colors.  Somewhere beyond 65000 is perilously close to overkill.  Since I know from my electro-optic career that the instantaneous dynamic range of the human vision system is barely eight bits.
Barely 8 bits? In grayscale perhaps. But 8 bits in color is not even close to enough. Even 16-bit color shows visible banding in many images, if not alleviated with dithering. 24-bit color absolutely can represent what one can discern, but you need more bits to allow for the color space manipulation needed for calibration, etc. Similarly, when manipulating photos, 24-bit can lead to banding, so 48-bit does actually improve results.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2018, 01:31:54 pm »
Vuescan is the program that fixes those issues in Windows, Mac and Linux

Why the hell would you spend that money to support something which is cheap to replace?
I also purchased Vuescan over 10 years ago (It is a once only cost - you get all updates). It is not just to save one cheap scanner, it has probably allowed me to keep using 5 scanners over the years - not all of them cheap.

You often end up with better control of the scanner then the original programs offered. I can use the scanners for free now that everyone else is throwing out. For quick scans, I have a really old Canon LIDE usb powered scanner that has had no drivers since Windows XP.
Another vote for VueScan. Not only does it support older scanners (senseless for cheap ones, but eminently sensible for specialty scanners), but it really does give way more control than the software for consumer scanners ever did.

I wonder if my old VueScan license is still active... (it was one I received for free when working at the fruit stand, not a purchased license).
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2018, 07:14:53 pm »
Excellent suggestion on Vuescan.  Too bad I didn't find out about it before replacing a couple of old scanners with optics/sensors I really liked.   Tooki, if you go to the purchase page they have a link to let you look for your serial number/license information.


While my experience with Krita was a single example, it has been typical of my experience with the Linux world.  There are many wonderful programs out there.  And a huge number of useable programs.  But a huge number of the programs require significant homework and tweaking that the advocates seem oblivious to.  I am not against learning.  But as I said earlier, my hobby is not computers and operating systems.  Nor is/was my profession.  Computers and operating systems are tools.  If the result of all that learning is to be able to do something almost as well as I currently can, or even if it is slightly better, I have better ways to spend my time.

So far Linux falls into that category for me.  I have found a few things I can do better.  A few things that are significantly harder to achieve.  Most things end up being about the same.  Advocates of Linux will argue that everything is easier/better/faster .... (This is not unique to Linux advocates - Windows and Mac advocates are guilty too.)  They may even be right by some objective measure.  I can only report my own experience.  The reason that I continue to dabble with Linux at all is the ongoing attempt by Microsoft to reduce its utility to me, thus tilting that rough balance far enough to justify the effort in transition.
 
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Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2018, 07:53:29 pm »
Good points about Linux are the stability, and fewer security issues. Also you can do so much without having to pay for extra software. For the business user, the simple licensing model can in itself save you a huge amount of expense. Microsoft licensing is now so incredibly complex that many businesses have to hire a specialist lawyer to sort out how much they actually need to pay.

Things I don't like so much are the case sensitive filesystem, and the excessively tight integration of user applications with the OS.

Having a situation where you can't capitalize names for easier reading without that also causing issues, is basically stupid. It dates from the stone age of computing when adding case conversion to software would have had a significant performance hit. Nowadays that's a non-argument, but we still have to live with the legacy of naming everything lowercase or else suffering problems.

If you upgrade your distro, your office apps, graphics editors, etc all are perforce upgraded too. Thing is, the new app might suck, or maybe just can't do what the previous version did, and short of rolling your entire distro back you're stuck with it. You can sometimes get backports of the previous apps, but they often don't work too well. By contrast you can run just about any Windows program on a version of Windows no older than the app itself. For example you can run Office 97 on Windows 10. On Linux, you can't even go one version back.

BTW, Mint has gained a lot of popularity in the desktop arena. It's certainly one of the more ergonomic and well thought-out presentations.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #90 on: March 07, 2018, 08:16:32 pm »
If you upgrade your distro, your office apps, graphics editors, etc all are perforce upgraded too. Thing is, the new app might suck, or maybe just can't do what the previous version did, and short of rolling your entire distro back you're stuck with it.

I partitioned my harddisk(s) as follows:

First three or four partitions with a size of 30GB (20GB could be enough as well).
Then a partion that occupies all the rest of the space of the harddisk.

The first time you install Linux, use the first 30GB partion to install it, including /home.
Then you mount the big partion as /data. This is where all your precious data, documents and projects go.
Leave the other small partitions unused and unmounted.
Usually, in the /home/<user>/ directory, there's a directory called "Documents". Remove it and create a symlink with the same name
that points to /data/Documents

When it's time to install a new distro, install it into another small partition. After installation you mount the data partition.

Next distro or next version of your distro, goes in to the next empty small partion till everything is full and then you start to
format and re-use the first small partition.

This way, if you don't like something about the new distro or newer version, you simply reboot and select in GRUB the older distro.
Works perfect for me.
 
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2018, 09:21:35 pm »
This is actually the advantage of minimal distros like Arch Linux or FreeBSD (Which isn't Linux, but might as well be). When you upgrade Arch Linux, you just use the package manager to upgrade everything, including the kernel. Reboot (or even just reload everything possibly), and you're done. If an update was made to a package and you don't like it, uninstall it and find a nicer one. Similar with FreeBSD, but I don't know if they do the rolling update thing.

I personally dislike AIO distros like Debian based ones, a lot for this reason. You're just given a load of packages to use, and you don't get to experience the full, pick the colour of the baseboard trim customizability you are normally, in a way, forced to do with minimal distros. I also get it's not for everybody, and I can respect that, but if you have the time, the experience gained and the customization earned is certainly worth it.

I started with a CLI, a package manager, and I think GNU Nano. This is what I did with it over the course of no more than a few days:

https://goo.gl/eT3mnD (Not in line as some people on metered connections may think 300kb is a big amount, yes I am still bitter about this thing that for most people died ages ago, secant).

None of that came with the OS. I installed the bottom dock, the window manager, the wallpaper (which I love, it's a great joke), and even the little top left emblem which used to just be a Mate logo. Even Screenfetch was custom. I think this is the reason I love Linux. I can change it however I want.
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Online bd139

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2018, 10:24:53 pm »
FreeBSD is nothing like Linux. It works properly and the documentation isn't crap!  :-DD
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2018, 11:29:36 pm »
Restoring a Windows 7 OEM install is not always what is wanted or the best idea.

Using the backup recovery partition or disks made with the manufacturers supplied utility program will also reinstall all the bloatware/trial software/potential spyware that was included originally.

It can take longer to remove all the junk afterward than it does to do the actual install. And you can never be sure it's all completely gone. It is guaranteed that dregs will be left in the registry. A clean install is often (usually) the better plan of action.

Offline activation of a clean install is not that difficult as long as the necessary files are copied beforehand and there have not been hardware changes. Be sure to download in advance any drivers you might need (chipset, network, video, sound, etc.).

I agree that a major downside is the useless bloatcrapnagware they slot in, that only serve to bog down performance and give the OEM vendor a bad rep and lost future sales,
with a good chance the burnt buyers go 'Mac' and try their computing luck there   ::)

FWIW I keep 2 separate backup images of the entire OEM PC
one in it's original shipped state, 
and another image after all the bloats have been removed, Registry leftovers nuked, security scan, and updates and service packs applied,
which sits on any external USB drive nicely, ready for a rainy day...

There's also a third image with apps etc and or another when the PC is running really well = backup
 

I'm not a fan of cloak n dagger activation games BS, so I take the easiest surefire legal  -CHEAPEST-  way out, new or used. 

Admittedly most OEM PCs may not be spec'D gamer class machines, but throw in some extra ram, optional decent graphics card,  a 7200 rpm or SSD drive (or two) and they do the business for most tasks good enough   :-+


Why think about Windows or Linux when you can dabble in both or as needs dictate

Linux costs nothing and I reckon if I got really serious about it and over the 'Windows or Mac' duopoly, I could have a distro or two running like beasts with all the apps I and the locals around me need.

If I need 'support' or handball tips to newbs, apps, workarounds and the latest browser and whatever, Linux user websites and forums are a Bookmark click away...


MS and Apple should tread carefully with their expanding money pits, lest the connedsumers and corporats get fed up with the BS and   'give something else a try and see how it goes...'


Playing with Linux means you can pull the plug on Windows and Macs any time without too much drama, and have a fun weekend or two sorting it all out and exercising the brain,

on most bog standard PCs, even older ones dating back 10 or more years


For gamers and serious AV users my blab above may not relate to your needs, in which case better off having a separate purpose rig anyway with a wired internet connection, which is usually the norm I think  :-//

 
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #94 on: March 08, 2018, 12:03:50 am »
Having a situation where you can't capitalize names for easier reading without that also causing issues, is basically stupid. It dates from the stone age of computing when adding case conversion to software would have had a significant performance hit. Nowadays that's a non-argument, but we still have to live with the legacy of naming everything lowercase or else suffering problems.

You're thinking of the ASCII age of computing, which started in the 1960's and even then many of the early adopters only used six-bit ASCII variants (no lower case). Most of the stone age computers didn't support lower case at all. The earliest ones only dealt with numbers.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2018, 12:11:32 am »
FreeBSD is nothing like Linux. It works properly and the documentation isn't crap!  :-DD

That's because BSD and its decendants (which include MacOS) actually is a branch of Unix*.

*Except BSD can't actually call itself Unix, because they didn't pay for the right to use the trademarked name.
 
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #96 on: March 08, 2018, 12:55:37 am »
FreeBSD is nothing like Linux. It works properly and the documentation isn't crap!  :-DD

https://prnt.sc/iobr3z

Yeah, works SO well. Documentation also TOTALLY covers this! Here's a hint, neither of my previous stations are true.
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Online bd139

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #97 on: March 08, 2018, 07:53:12 am »
That’s Linux’s (well strictly GNU’s) fault. dlopen is part of libc on sensible platforms. It’s part of libdl on Linux. Someone linked that against libdl. That means that someone is using Linux compact without the GNU libc doodahs or upstream cocked up their autoconf setup. Static link libdl to libc and the runtime linker will find it.

So basically that’s all linux’s failt anyway  :-DD
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #98 on: March 08, 2018, 08:10:12 am »
This is dandy for me because this happens on chromium too.
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Offline hans

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Re: Migrating from Windows to Linux
« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2018, 08:52:45 am »
Call me fanboy, but since this week I started to appreciate Linux/GNU a fair bit more, even for it's old-school Xorg.

For a project we needed to perform VLSI simulations and synthesis on a remote server. Every student can SSH into that box. So logically, with 2 commands you can create a personal SSH keychain and drop the public key on the server. Great, can login without having to type in my excessively lengthy student password every time.

Next, locally mounted the /home/ directory of remote server account using sshfs. Instant access to files on the remote server, just edit code in my favorite editor, etc. Works great as well, no need to put up with nano or continuously transferring code files back and forth.

Then finally enabled X11 forwarding and behold; running graphical applications on the server seamless in my own desktop environment with granularity to single applications. No annoying full-screen remote desktop connections as is the case on Windows. Sure dragging panels in the application is a bit slower than it used to, but everything else worked seamlessly.

Really liking this! I would almost swap my workstation laptop for a more lightweight one, and then forward X11 [everything] from my workstation on campus which has way more beefier hardware..
 


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