Author Topic: Millions of engineers and technicians are using cheap testers less than $10 and  (Read 13027 times)

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Offline Storeinfinity

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I did some research on popular cheap testers and scopes present in China.
Data at disposal are collected from the largest online shopping platform taobao.com by searching top sellers+the most popular deals.
1 Clamp meter: 11107 items online.
Top ten best deals are from $4 to $20.
Top3 are respectively $4, $20, and $5 each.
2 DMM Digital Multimeters : 84393 items.
Top ten deals are from $10 to $30.
Top3 cost $6 (nearly 1,000 piece sold every month), $10 (nearly 379p/month), $4. (311p/month).
And the Fluke 17B around $85 are also popular, sold 100 pieces per month.
3 Oscilloscope: 23969 items.
Popular ones are all around $300.
Best seller number 1 ADS1102cal with 100MHz and 1G sample rate sold nearly 60 pieces every single month by one seller
These data are only from one online shopping platform in China among numerous market places in this billion-population country.
Actually the bigger scale of sales are mostly off line in China.
According to one of the top online forums in China ourdev.com, a place where more than 170,927 topics with 2,130,682 technical-only replies shared by 41,344,468 visitors, (among them 335,088 regular registered and strictly screened by a standard of at least 5 technical replies after registration?and always around 5000 netters active online) lots of tester&scope users, most as technicians and engineers working for state-owned enterprises in China, use cheap testers and scopes off work and those first class ones are only purchased with reimbursement and fund from government.
And lots of them argued, in terms of usage, in most cases cheap testers work really well and sometimes even better. (esp. considering diode or transistor hFE etc.) **link to own site removed**
For most of us who are not rocket scientists, cheap testers and scopes are really helping for daily circuit debugs and appliance repairs so that we can save money  on something more challenging in our lives.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 02:32:53 am by EEVblog »
A lot of notorious online sellers cheat or rip off while we do not bother; We work hard to be constantly refined as a decent, reputable and life-long reliable distributor for people in this field. We now live in Shanghai, a city of vibe with over 30 million people. Come and check this place out!
 

Offline nukie

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Dave please save us from this can of meat.
 

Offline EEVblog

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I've said more than enough on cheap meters!

Dave.
 

Online Simon

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I've said more than enough on cheap meters!

Dave.

actually this is blatant spam, first he gives us figures about how much is sold and to who and if your really bored like me and read on you get to the point where he drops a website name. He was clever to not make it a link so that it stood out a mile and got banned as this is basically a crude advert and as a first post names and shames the op as a spammer.
 

Offline saturation

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I'm not sure this is entirely spam, but those are impressive sales stats; folks often don't share such info.  It will serve as a lead to check those sites and the numbers.  We don't get much info from Chinese language forums, so I wouldn't take the quote as gospel but its a good lead to investigate further.

The forum mentioned, ourdev.com, is a general interest forum, with many subforums, many are in electronics discussion:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ourdev.cn%2Fbbs%2F&act=url

http://serenityinchina.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/china-street-scenes-doing-electrical-wiring-above-streetin-middle-of-street/

I don't think were folks buy cheap gear, safety in T&M is more important than cost, and that it will live long enough to get a job done, and cheap enough to get it replaced without blinking:

Somehwere in China in 2011, a worker using live electrical supply lines to support the ladder:


My photo of a gov't installation in the Marianas Is., taken in 2010, note the yellow arrows.  Insulated wires without metal jackets, electrical sockets free floating unconnected to the wall [ but with a steel pipe for support].





Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

HLA-27b

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This looks remarkably like what is described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCIgen

Or maybe I romanticize about non-human involvement.
 

Offline Lightages

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This is 100% unmitigated spam with a cover story. Ban the goof.
 

HLA-27b

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This is 100% unmitigated spam with a cover story. Ban the goof.

Do not agree. He (it) provided some information in his first post. This should be legit, even for a spammer. The quality of information is debatable but this is beside the point. You should not kick people out without a pattern emerging.
 

Online IanB

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Do not agree. He (it) provided some information in his first post. This should be legit, even for a spammer. The quality of information is debatable but this is beside the point. You should not kick people out without a pattern emerging.
It's  true. When people put some effort into their promotional material they deserve to be given a little slack.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline Lightages

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OK then, Dave should, IMHO, at least delete the spammers free advertised link so as to not piss off the ones paying to get their websites on this forum. one post, no replies to his own post, just to get his name and website url on another website. Sorry but I see blatant exploitation of Dave here although a more subtle approach than usual.
 

Offline shadowless

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It just reflect the state of development China is in today.  Most people are not rich enough to afford the good stuff.

Lack of care is a big issue. Lack of care for human lives is a problematic mindset.

In construction sites, they send people down bore holes to dig manually instead of using machine. And when the earth cave in they just pay compensation the family.  Life is cheaper than the cost of equipment.  Some people think life is cheap and that is the reality in China. In countries that have 1/5 the world population, it is easy for them to fall into that mindset.





 

Online Mechatrommer

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well. there's some logic in the stat. since cheap intruments are throw away, most people will just get one to try out. Dave has 1 or 2 Fluke?. but how many cheapo did he bought for review and tear down? not to mention the one who ended up below his car tyre.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Why I should care about statistics ( true or false ) that was taken from the people in China ?

I live in Europe,  and I love to see the European ones !!  ;)

 
 

Offline nukie

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When question about buying domestic(Chinese brand) high-end more than $150 DMM, often ourdev.cn forum members would steer towards used Fluke meters such as the 187. Used Flukes is plentyful in the Chinese e-market, often a lot cheaper thn eBay.

Most people have cheap T&M gear yes, in our toolbox, glovebox, in the cupboard, where it funtions as a spare. Never on my bench where I use it everyday.

Mid priced T&M I agree but not $10 cheap.  Most members on ourdev.cn who are serious about electronics possess some sort of meter priced range about $50 or so, ie the UT61D. A few would spend their annual salary on a used 6 digit HP 34401A. Hardcore members who often contribute regarding voltage standards topics sports 8 digit imports. The users are diversed.

The spammer/self advertiser is really just making it up to attract maximum attention. taobao.com is equivalent to eBay. Most company would deal with other businesses directly to aqquire their test gear. I say Taobao statistic is mostly just sales for personal use.

Thinking about it the article sounds like the communist party spreading their propoganda.

Having said that I have a $12 UT20 meter it has a load test for 1.5v and 9v battery I find it very useful and valuable. To me, its a battery tester.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 02:02:03 am by nukie »
 

Offline EEVblog

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This is 100% unmitigated spam with a cover story. Ban the goof.

Do not agree. He (it) provided some information in his first post. This should be legit, even for a spammer. The quality of information is debatable but this is beside the point. You should not kick people out without a pattern emerging.

The post is on-topic, so it stays. But the user spruiked their own site and made it look like opinion, so it's obviously spam, so banned.
I don't mind people spruiking their own site, but only if they are up front about it and contribute to the community discussions.

Dave.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 01:28:23 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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taobao.com is equivalent to eBay.

True, and in order to save some from the trouble about visiting it, the language is exclusively Chinese .  :) 
 

Offline Lightages

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Perhaps you might want to remove their subtle reference to their own site then

"I was thrilled to find these cheap scopes and testers on sites "removed as it is pure spam" as well as some other distributers of scopes like ADS1102cal or fluke 17b on ebay, which considerably saved my budget on these equipments."

 and my reference to it here. It is a sneaky way to get their site reference numbers up in google.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 07:01:37 pm by Lightages »
 

Online Simon

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Perhaps you might want to remove their subtle reference to their own site then

"I was thrilled to find these cheap scopes and testers on sites like [spam link removed] as well as some other distributers of scopes like ADS1102cal or fluke 17b on ebay, which considerably saved my budget on these equipments."

 and my reference to it here. It is a sneaky way to get their site reference numbers up in google.

personally I'd remove the whole topic and ban the user but that is Daves call
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 06:16:59 am by Simon »
 

Offline Storeinfinity

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Dear Dave

This is Mscha from ********** and I apologize for what I've done at your eevblog days ago when I wrongly uploaded a spammer titled with millions of engineers...”.

I accept some of the accusations against me from Simon, Lightages etc. while I would like to say thanks to you, saturation, HAL-42b, IanB.

I don’t want to make an excuse to this but the fact was my assistant accidentally Ctrl+C and Ctrl+ved my blog from company site blog (without removing insite links) and spreaded outside while I was asking her to use plain texts.
eev blog is a great place and personally I as everyone else dislike spammers. I believe in decency and eev blog are full of decent people in this field. It’s stupid to upload such an awkward spammer to people with good education and seasoned experience in this field.
Please accept my apology and I learned a lesson, a big one. This is also for the first time a spammer coming out under my name and I feel ashamed of it.
Rather, I am trying to deliever information from Chinese sources and collect them like literature review so the whole world (basically all at eev, :)) can have a look and discuss about it.
I want to contribute to the community discussion. That's it. It is so easy to notice that in this world with Google, youtube, FB, Linkedin, Twitter and such, everything is or on its way to be open, so is the business. All the prices, reviews, and words of mouth for every single item is available on line. I firmly believe that only a reputable business with constant reliability rather than several spammers can offer careers and convenience in the market place to all consumers. Just like Amazon, Zappos, Apple, AC/DC the band they are my idols.
For every E-commerce business, it is more and more obvious that prices started to lose their advantages in this open and competitive world on line.  One can always find something with better offer. Thus storeinfinity wants to think different, rather than simply lowering costs and sell (that's still a foundation for all though), we are thinking about being a decent team here based in one of the world manufacturing countries. We are on our way to build up experiences and knowledge so in the future we can handle all kinds of inquires from everywhere. We think long term, long enough to reach generations cause we believe in an open world with info and opinions shared seamlessly everywhere, in which the humanbeing as a whole can benefit from this convenience.
As everyone knew for decades, Chinese mad es are notorious for cheap and bad quality. Reasons for that fact vary and it's open for discussion. What I know is new generations in my age (born in 1984) are fed up with environment and mindset around us as we grow up here in China. Thus we look forward to a change for a better solution for billions of people in this country.
I deeply feel I am blessed with information on line and people connected on line (eev blog for instance). Also English I learned has been helping myself become more and more cultured.
As an ethnic Kazakh growing up in a tiny border town 20 kms away by Kazakhstan (google tacheng and check that distance out) where there are still two bus lines serving people, I got so used to life in central Asia where people with various ethnic, religion, and language background communicate on daily bases. I finished my BA degree in Urumqi, a city of 2 millions as the capital city of Xinjiang province which covers a vast area of land equals to the size of west Europe. I personally experienced the development in this province also later the whole China as I worked in Beijing and Shanghai.
I met more and more people with similar idea. Everyone is working hard to learn and catch up with the international standard, frameworks, and system in terms of mentality, life pattern etc. This Chinese forum content collecting and sharing project was inspired from my witness of my international friends getting ripped off by ridiculous pricing and bad quality service and goods. I think it is unfair and disgraceful visioning things can be done decent and there must be some well respectful ways to earn a living and even a career.
Nearly all Chinese know in lots of cases in China lives become cheaper than machines. With all the pain and retrospect more and more Chinese are learning their lessons. I personally believe it is a long but visible way to go for us including other struggling nations in this world.
I am happy to see that  people support and welcome info from Chinese sites e.g. saturation, HAL-42b, IanB... I will do better for sure with these precious encouragement. Please sir give us a chance and we will continue to contribute discussions to this community and hopefully when we are not that busy, people on eev blog can vote together for topics or investigation's they are most interested in but we can try our best to make one of the bridges to fulfill this.
(BTW, I once translated the material from your forum to Chinese ourdev.com in regard to Regol hacking. Look forward to more.)
Thank you very much for your time and patience.
Wish you all the best.

Mischa Khaulan from Sto*******ity
Salute from Shanghai, China

Some quotations on line:
From HAL-42b:
You should not kick people out without a pattern emerging.
From IanB:
It's  true. When people put some effort into their promotional material they deserve to be given a little slack.
From shadowless:
It just reflect the state of development China is in today.  Most people are not rich enough to afford the good stuff.
Lack of care is a big issue. Lack of care for human lives is a problematic mindset.
In construction sites, Life is cheaper than the cost of equipment. 
from Mechatrommer...
from kiriakos-GR: ...no Chinese but European...
from nukle:Fluke meters such as the 187. Used Flukes is plentiful in the Chinese e-market, often a lot cheaper than eBay.
Most people have cheap T&M gear yes, in our toolbox, glovebox, in the cupboard, where it functions as a spare. Never on my bench where I use it everyday.
Mid priced T&M I agree but not $10 cheap.  Most members on ourdev.cn who are serious about electronics possess some sort of meter priced range about $50 or so, ie the UT61D. A few would spend their annual salary on a used 6 digit HP 34401A. Hardcore members who often contribute regarding voltage standards topics sports 8 digit imports. The users are diversed.
It sounds like the communist party spreading their propaganda.
from EEVblog Dave:
I don't mind people spruiking their own site, but only if they are up front about it and contribute to the community discussions.
A lot of notorious online sellers cheat or rip off while we do not bother; We work hard to be constantly refined as a decent, reputable and life-long reliable distributor for people in this field. We now live in Shanghai, a city of vibe with over 30 million people. Come and check this place out!
 

Online Simon

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I still don't see the point of the original post and don't care to hear how reliable people think cheap equipment is. I don't like to spend a lot of money on gear myself but i do try and get the best for my money.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Quote
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/sparkylabs-co-uk/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686
www.politicallyincorrect.eu - saying it how it is !
www.rotaract1070.org.uk 18-30 ? have even more fun

Why you spam these links in your every message?
Only meaning is add trafic?

I feel co ashamed with these Simon comments.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 01:27:44 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Hi @rf-loop

You have a point about the signature of Simon.

As a member of this community,  I would like to was aware of Simon ebay ID, he is an honest man,
and I would not had a second thought about buying from him.  :)

But about the other links, is something that I do not find them helpful in any way.
I would prefer a link of his personal web page so to see his own projects .
The idea behind the small forums, is the people to have the chance to share anything that bothers them with the world, or to find common interests and subjects , so to spent happily their on line time. 

On topic :


Rather, I am trying to deliver information from Chinese sources and collect them like literature review so the whole world (basically all at eev, :))    can have a look and discuss about it. .......................  I want to contribute to the community discussion.

You can contribute after posting 100 of  simple messages, because by this way you will have the awareness,
of what material are truly interesting to us .

Both of your messages are a bit confusing, and personally I can not digest them with out a Pepsi .   
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 03:57:42 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline tycz

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Rather, I am trying to deliver information from Chinese sources and collect them like literature review so the whole world (basically all at eev, :))    can have a look and discuss about it. .......................  I want to contribute to the community discussion.

You can contribute after posting 100 of  simple messages, because by this way you will have the awareness,
of what material are truly interesting to us .

And by 'us' you mean yourself don't you?

You made a worthless comment in the thread to the effect of 'this topic is of no interest to me because it is not relevant to me'. Well great. Imagine if everybody posted the same thought whenever it popped into thier heads - IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING?

 

Online Simon

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Quote
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/sparkylabs-co-uk/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686
www.politicallyincorrect.eu - saying it how it is !
www.rotaract1070.org.uk 18-30 ? have even more fun

Why you spam these links in your every message?
Only meaning is add trafic?

I feel co ashamed with these Simon comments.

Clarify the definition of spam, and I'll tell you what a signature is: it is a space that is part of our profile and your chance to tell others something about you that may or may not be in the context of the post. Many people post links to other websites that are their own or just their favorites and that they hold dear. Unless i am replying simply to have these links shown they are not spam and i have no reason to post for the sake of it as i take regular part in the forum. In my case my signature tells you a fair amount about me and this does not have to be electronics related, there is more to life you know, it has a link yes to items i sell and I'm not the only person that links in one way or another to items they sell, I have never ever suggested that anyone on here buy anything off me and indeed that I am aware of i have only ever made 2 sales via this forum.
The other two links relate to me more personally. One (Rotaract) is for a national and international volunteer/not for profit/social organization i am a proud member of and very active in and of benefit to anyone in the world although I am naturally more interested in the more local aspect but am happy to share with anyone the fact that it exists as it only does good, I have nothing to gain from linking to it but by maybe making another friend in REAL life in fact another member of this forum is also a member of Rotaract and it is through Rotaract that we got to know each other personally and now talk about more than just electronics.
The other link is to a website of my own, you are not obliged to visit it but well we all have a right to an opinion and freedom of speech - well theres my share of it, take it or leave it as i say on the website. If you must know I've not really made a penny from it but it was more for expressing myself if that is not a crime,

if any of the above is what you are "co-ashamed" of I suggest you grow a back bone of you own !

Unfortunately as a moderator i sometimes have to do/say unpopular things, altrhough these are generally unpopular with a minority only. On the whole i act as an individual member and only speak up/take action when I feel the need but try and leave the bigger stuff to Dave, and hence this topic is still here !
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Rather, I am trying to deliver information from Chinese sources and collect them like literature review so the whole world (basically all at eev, :))    can have a look and discuss about it. .......................  I want to contribute to the community discussion.

You can contribute after posting 100 of  simple messages, because by this way you will have the awareness,
of what material are truly interesting to us .

And by 'us' you mean yourself don't you?

You made a worthless comment in the thread to the effect of 'this topic is of no interest to me because it is not relevant to me'. Well great. Imagine if everybody posted the same thought whenever it popped into thier heads - IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING?

If you disagree with my opinion , just add yours too, so the word  " us " to get an true value.
About your what ever opinion about me , I do not care about it, simply because you are anonymous.
Its not my goal to make every one happy, by forgetting what makes me happy. 


 


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