Author Topic: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC  (Read 1374 times)

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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« on: June 26, 2019, 09:24:35 pm »
SOLVED

I don't know where this would fit in the forum, but I can't seem to read, program, etc. a PIC16F877 in a PLCC package with the programmer.
I have made the proper pin to pin PLCC to DIP adaptor as I have done on many other chips, packages, but the programmer keeps going into error.
(ID error! Check the chip correctly? whether contact good pin?)
Using it in ICSP mode with another socket direct to the ICSP header on the programmer results in the same error. Turning off the ID check does not result in anything better. |O

So does anybody have luck in programming this IC in the TL866 in either DIP or PLCC? :-//
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 08:25:15 pm by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Offline NorthGuy

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 04:12:44 am »
I've never heard of TL866, but no id typically means connection/powering problems. Do you know if TL866 uses HVP or LVP programming mode? Do you have a schematics of the ICSP connection between the PIC and the programmer?
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2019, 06:36:24 am »
Have you tried a different IC? I can't remember if setting the protection fuses results in no ID but it could be the cause assuming everything is connected up properly.

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2019, 07:26:50 pm »
Now that my computer has recovered from bad sectors, the answers to the questions are:
Yes different chips have been tried, all PLCC's (10 or so) no DIP.
Yes all the connections are correct, they ring out pin for pin, PLCC to DIP per the datasheet.
The ID should detect regardless of write protection fuses.

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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2019, 02:07:21 pm »
Bueller?  :-//
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Online MarkF

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2019, 02:46:07 pm »
Have you seen this video Dave did years ago?  Is this your programmer?

   
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2019, 03:33:29 pm »
Not sure what the video has to say about the OP's particular problem?  :-//

But I can offer this forum post from 2014, which describes a solution (hack?) for programming the 16F877 with the TL866. It required adding pullups and adjusting Vcc. Not sure whether that still applies; I don't have personal experience with that chip.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-411-minipro-tl866-universal-programmer-review/msg559116/#msg559116
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2019, 04:12:42 pm »
It would be helpful if I could only understand just what the op was trying to say.
It looks to be a befuddled Google Tower of Babel translation.

I do thank you for that link, but much remains a mystery. If the PIC16F877 is in their software menu how come it doesn't work properly?
I can only assume that the 4K7 resistors are adequate, But where do they go? To the VSS VDD of the chip in the socket adaptor or do I have to build a different supply?

My hope is that someone who had used my specific PIC could try it and report their findings here.
Thanks
Quote from: ebastler on Today at 10:33:29
I can offer this forum post from 2014, which describes a solution (hack?) for programming the 16F877 with the TL866. It required adding pullups and adjusting Vcc. Not sure whether that still applies; I don't have personal experience with that chip.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 05:41:03 pm by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2019, 04:30:29 pm »
What about placing a pull up resistor 4.7K to 10K on the PGM pin.. if any ? Check this pin on the flash memory program datasheet. Also try another program such the winpic800... in a older machine

About supply are refering to Vpp or Vdd?
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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2019, 05:38:33 pm »
I have no other programmer. I used to at work, a Topmax. It worked every time and if it didn't you could write your own in the software. Not at all like the folks who steal ideas and software and then lock it up for money :-- .

But back to the subject, the PGM pin is not even used. See the diagram from the programmer splash screen:

Yes VCC but VDD on the PIC

I used 4k7's on both the RB6 & RB7 pins to VCC/VDD but to no avail.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 05:43:31 pm by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Online MarkF

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2019, 06:29:46 pm »
Not sure what the video has to say about the OP's particular problem?  :-//

But I can offer this forum post from 2014, which describes a solution (hack?) for programming the 16F877 with the TL866. It required adding pullups and adjusting Vcc. Not sure whether that still applies; I don't have personal experience with that chip.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-411-minipro-tl866-universal-programmer-review/msg559116/#msg559116

Did you even watch the video?

Starting at time 16:00, Dave uses it to read and write a PIC16F877. 
No mention of needing extra pullup resistors.
It appears to be able to program the PIC without any issues.

He did however have to upgrade the firmware at the beginning.
Maybe this is a firmware issue?  Maybe the TL866 hardware has been updated at some point?
Also, Dave was using the ZIF socket and not the ICSP port (his did not have one).

OP mentioned using low voltage ICSP programming mode.
Maybe the fuse bits have disabled ICSP for the PIC.  Try the high voltage programming.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 06:57:19 pm by MarkF »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2019, 07:00:52 pm »
Did you even watch the video?

Starting at time 16:00, Dave uses it to read and write a PIC16F877. 

No, of course I didn't. Did you expect everybody to watch a half-hour video without the slightest hint why they should, and where to look? ;)
Thanks for the additional detail though!

One thing I'm confused about now -- both Dave and the author in the 2014 post I had linked to seem to have plugged the PIC into the programmer's DIP socket. I had assumed Quarlo was trying the same, but then saw his picture of the ISP connection. @Quarlo, how did you connect to the PIC?
 

Online Andy Watson

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2019, 07:55:30 pm »
But back to the subject, the PGM pin is not even used. See the diagram from the programmer splash screen:
The low-voltage PGM pin (RB3 ?) should be pulled low during normal programming - see this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/icsp-microchip-issues-or-all-me/
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2019, 08:05:53 pm »
"Did you even watch the video?" Sorry I did not as I had seen it all before...Or so I thought. You are correct and there it is 877 and all. I did notice his "fireware" is old as well as the program. Since then they have had many updates including some that break things. I guess now I should install an old version and try.

A note of clarity, I have tried both the DIP socket and then went on to the ICSP. All do not work. I got lost as to what next procedure I was answering, as it is all a blur now. DIP- pullups, ICSP - with and without crystal etc. :-\

I await in hope for someone to use DIP package in software v6.71, firmware v3.2.82
I want to use the stock I have (15+ pieces) for a project to test IC's that this thing won't do. That's what this all started from in the first place. A snake eating its tail....

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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2019, 08:31:42 pm »
I have no other programmer. I used to at work, a Topmax. It worked every time and if it didn't you could write your own in the software. Not at all like the folks who steal ideas and software and then lock it up for money :-- .

But back to the subject, the PGM pin is not even used. See the diagram from the programmer splash screen:

Yes VCC but VDD on the PIC

I used 4k7's on both the RB6 & RB7 pins to VCC/VDD but to no avail.

Sorry I was refering to the software for the programmer, it is winpic800 and works with a lot of programmers ., at least with propic2 with pic18Fx52.  The PGM pin in some microcontrollers must stay low  really, my mistake, for high voltage programming in /MCLR . Notes for programmic pics:

http://webs.uolsinectis.com.ar/nancy/pic/icsp_en.html




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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2019, 09:36:34 pm »
Sorry but that software will not work with the TL866 as it only works with its own proprietary version of software.
The goal is why the device won't read, let alone be able to program. It refuses to ID the chip so that's a non starter. I am scoping some pins right now and the don't look good. More on this later.
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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2019, 11:05:16 pm »
It's later... So I did manage to find an 877 in a DIP, as well as an 876 x 2 in DIP as well. Nothing will read and they all show an ID of 00. :horse: :(
When I insert an AT90S8515, ATMEGA8515, 162 etc. all is right with the world as all info is there.
I am stoomped as to what is going on.
Can somebody please try either the 876 or 877 in their programmer, as a last resort please.

And thanks.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 11:07:25 pm by Quarlo Klobrigney »
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2019, 11:24:38 pm »
That is correct it has its proprietary software... The 16F876 used to work on the propic2 but don't have a parallel port or a converter. But the problem is reading? are these new parts? Can you erase and then read it? try this...

The best shot that i  have is pickit 2 / 3 for testing the 16F876 and 16F876A in PDIP.
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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2019, 01:39:20 am »
The software from the programmer has a button as seen above, that says ID. This reads the hex ID of any chip that displays it. The fact that it doesn't work on these PICs is the first step in communication. If that fails, the the rest is pointless.

Quote from: malagas_on_fire on Today at 18:24:38
That is correct it has its proprietary software... The 16F876 used to work on the propic2 but don't have a parallel port or a converter.
But the problem is reading? are these new parts? Can you erase and then read it? try this...

The best shot that i  have is pickit 2 / 3 for testing the 16F876 and 16F876A in PDIP.
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Offline Ordinaryman1971

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2019, 02:01:51 am »
Which TL866 do you have, the old one with programming voltages up to 21V or the new one with 18V limit?
It may be that the new version is able to program them and the old one does not or vice versa..
I was trying to skim read the thread carefully but... not sure if this question was asked?
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2019, 02:20:31 am »
Um... how to tell?
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Online MarkF

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2019, 02:35:03 am »
 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2019, 02:46:46 am »
Same thing my backside looks like. So which is which?
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Offline edavid

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2019, 02:55:40 am »
TL866A/TL866CS = 21V

TL866II Plus = 18V

Since the PIC programming voltage is 13V, it shouldn't matter.
 

Online oPossum

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2019, 03:23:39 am »
I was able to erase and blank check a 16F877A. I didn't try programming because I don't have anything handy to try.

 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2019, 10:17:50 am »
The software from the programmer has a button as seen above, that says ID. This reads the hex ID of any chip that displays it. The fact that it doesn't work on these PICs is the first step in communication. If that fails, the the rest is pointless.

Quote from: malagas_on_fire on Today at 18:24:38
That is correct it has its proprietary software... The 16F876 used to work on the propic2 but don't have a parallel port or a converter.
But the problem is reading? are these new parts? Can you erase and then read it? try this...

The best shot that i  have is pickit 2 / 3 for testing the 16F876 and 16F876A in PDIP.

Oopss missed the part where you said it refuses to ID the chip, so sorry for the advice. pickit 2 is detecting the pic16F876A without any issues, it erases. I believe the propic2 used to have 18v to flash the 16F876 / 16F876A as an example. it was also suitable for 18Fx52 MCU's
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Online oPossum

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2019, 11:53:40 am »
Programmed a 16F877A successfully.

I have noticed that the TL866 may not work properly when using a USB hub, so connect it directly to the computer to ensure reliable operation.

 

Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2019, 01:09:25 pm »
I tried another USB port and it can do all functions on the DIP 876 & 877. :-[ Good call.

However, I still cannot see the 877 in the PLCC package. It comes up as ID 00. :palm:
So much for short lived happiness....
To reiterate from waaaaaay back before I confused my own internal logic, the adapter I made is pin name for pin name straight through connected.
I will offer a picture in a bit. I have to go into the village right now.

Thanks for setting me straight on th USB issue.
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2019, 04:42:52 pm »
Watch out if you're plug in a USB 3.0. Try a usb2.0 dedicated porta. About the plcc package try add decoupling caps in the vdd/vss pins and tied them with sites.
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Offline Quarlo Klobrigney

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Re: MiniPro TL866 Programmer & PIC
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2019, 08:24:37 pm »
I'll call it SOLVED for now. The programmer just can't recognise the PLCC to DIP adapter through the DIP socket. All I needed was to be able to program the 877 PLCC version which I can now do that the TL866 is finally working due to a bad version of 6.71 that was installed. Thanks for everyone's help.
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