Misleading Phone Battery charger at Costco?

[edy]

Hi folks,

I thought Costco was more immune to this crap but I guess not. Purchased a 2-pack battery charger for phones, you know the ones... you carry them around just in case, then if you need to charge your phone you plug it in.

Box advertised 4000 mAh with each pack, and said 2.1 mAh charging, and even said 40% faster charging with most phones (B.S. Alert).

Honestly, I just wanted for make sure it would charge a modern smartphone at least 1x to full charge, maybe 2x if lucky.

Soon as I opened the package and read the sticker on the back of the actual battery packs (hidden from view) they said INPUT 5V 1000mA, OUTPUT 5V 1000mA!

    

Talk about misleading or deceptive advertising. I would expect this from some eBay no-name but not from Costco. These crap chargers will not charge any smartphone built in the last 2-3 years.

My BlackBerry's all refuse to charge due to the low mA provided. Same goes for iPhone. All have 1.5-2 A wall warts and cannot juice up on 1000mA. Am I crazy here or can someone verify that a battery pack delivering 1000mA can't charge a phone? Or do you think they are defective? Or should I try to charge them up for 5 hours and see if they are accepted as charging sources then? The phones say to use another source for faster charging or they refuse to charge at all after trying for a few seconds.

Please give me a reason not to return them, although I think they are garbage and not what they say they are.

[edy]

I included some attachments here... see photos of packaging.

Clearly, it shows what looks like an iPhone plugged in to the charger.  It says charge your SMARTPHONE up to 2X from one charge. It says 2.1 mA Fast Charging.

Ok, so the wall-wart it comes with has 2 USB ports. So if they mean to say that you can charge BOTH battery-packs at the same time from the wall, yes then you are charging 1000 mA per device x 2 devices = 2000 mA draw from the wall wart. But if I can only draw 1000 mA from the battery pack, how in heck am I going to charge a Smart Phone?

Also, look at the dimensions of this pack. Is there enough space for 4000 mAh battery in there? And what do they mean by the fine print (4000 mAh/5V DC 1A/WH: 14.8 ). Yes there it says DC 1A but it does not explain whether that is charging rate (input), discharge rate (output) and the 2.1 mA "Fast-charging" is misleading, along with "40% faster charging on most phones" and 2.1 mA fast charging seems to suggest that is what the input/output rate of the battery pack is... *NOT* the f&*king wall-wart it came with that has 2 USB plugs in it!

I tried Google-ing the brand, it's nowhere to be found. I think Costco is peddling garbage, not what I expected from them. They better accept the return, given that I already had to practically destroy the package to get them out (another sign of a bad product, when they wrap it so tightly you need to practically destroy the package to get them out and feel bad returning it).

[ez24]

I included some attachments here... see photos of packaging.

Clearly, it shows what looks like an iPhone plugged in to the charger.  It says charge your SMARTPHONE up to 2X from one charge. It says 2.1 mA Fast Charging.

Seems that 2.1 mA is pretty low. 

One thing about crappy Costco items is that they are easy to return.  So next time I am there, I will check these out.

[edy]

Seems that 2.1 mA is pretty low. 

Sorry... I meant to say 2.1 A.     Either way, this product is way too fishy for my taste. Return it goes... I don't think 1000mA output (as labelled) is going to do the business on any modern smartphone.

[Tim F]

I don't know about the current crop of smart phones but I was under the impression that you don't need a high current (>1A) supply to charge them. Besides, they can only expect 500mA from a computer USB port - does your phone charge from a computer port? My phone (Nexus 5) throws up a message saying "charging slowly" or some such if it is plugged into a wimpy power source.
Most of them probably ramp up the current until the supply voltage sags too much from 5.0V. For this reason the charge rate actually depends on the USB cable you use as well as the power supply. If you use a crappy USB cable with small conductors there will be a larger voltage drop and therefore the charging current will drop as the phone sees a lower voltage for a given current draw. If the phone cannot even draw a small current (say more than 100mA - I don't know exactly, just pulling a figure out of the air) without the voltage dropping hard, then it probably gives up on charging .

If the phone doesn't charge at all from the battery pack, then the battery pack is probably faulty - voltage sagging to much below 5V when any half-reasonable current is drawn, or the voltage is just too low period. To test this you would measure the output voltage on the battery packs USB socket, then attach a known load and see if it drops. Simplest way would be to attach something like a 10ohm power resistor across the output which will get you ~500mA draw.

[edy]

I used the charger and cable that came with the power bank. If that's got issues already out of the box, I don't feel very confident about it at all.

I've attached another photo showing the back of the actual unit, where it explains the INPUT/OUTPUT current. With respect to USB, my understanding is that the USB does supply 500 mA max, but the newer USB protocols allow higher current draws (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB). I know for sure the wall-warts that I usually need to charge my SmartPhones have to be at least 1.5-2 A rated. Anything I had before (800mA-1000mA range) no longer work for the latest phones.

Regarding the Costco MobileGear PowerBank, I'll try to charge it fully and see if it does any better, and I'll use my own cable that I usually charge with (not theirs). Maybe the current draw caused a voltage dip if maybe the battery wasn't able to keep up with the load. But a fully charged battery certainly should be able to deliver (as they say) 1000 mA output at a constant 5 V, which would be like a 1000 mA wall-wart supply, no? Even then, as I mentioned, a wall-wart 1000 mA supply can't charge newer SmartPhones. So I'm not sure how USB can get away with it... certainly not at 500 mA... it must be ramping up according to the newer protocols.

[edavid]

I don't think 1000mA output (as labelled) is going to do the business on any modern smartphone.

You are mistaken, e.g. Apple bundles a 1A charger with the iPhone 7.

[SL4P]

My iphone6 and iPad2 Air charge between 500mA to 1.2A o a metered charger.
Perhaps your charger doesn't communicate with the device properly.. .?

[edy]

I don't think 1000mA output (as labelled) is going to do the business on any modern smartphone.

You are mistaken, e.g. Apple bundles a 1A charger with the iPhone 7.

I stand corrected.... Yes you are right. I just checked a bunch of my chargers... They range from 750 mA to 2A, and I know they will charge my phone. 

Something must be screwy then with the PowerBank. I have a feeling something is wrong with the "charge remaining" display or the crappy USB cable it came with. I'll charge it using my normal 2A wall-wart, and use a regular USB cable (not the wall-charger and cables it came with).

By the way, I just checked another brand PowerBank I have "neo power", and it does clearly state output 5V/1000mA... and I have charged my phone correctly with it.     So I suspect I jumped to the wrong conclusion when there is another issue going on. Time to investigate further, and shove my foot deeper into my mouth.     

[UPDATE:

Ok, it's definitely the short little USB cable the PowerBank came with!!!!  The phone (BlackBerry Z10) does not like this cable at all. It either says there is a faulty cable or will tell me that charge is too slow and to use cable that came with device, and stop charging after 2 seconds. I never had this issue with other PowerBanks and their cables, which is why this caught me a bit by surprise.]

[Bud]

Why dont you try charging your phone straight out of the costco wall adapter.
Though i dont see how any higher rate adapter can speed up charging a phone which most likely has internal limit on charging current it is able to take.

Edit: and yes when i charge my iphone from USB it takes longer, which is an indication of smaller current.

[jonovid]

is it Quick Charge 2.0  TM  ® trademark . you get what you pay for 
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge

[edy]

you get what you pay for 

$24.99 Canadian for 2 of these chargers.... rated at 4000 mAh each. Is that a good price? I don't even know. The cables that the charger came with seem to be good only from the wall-wart to the battery packs, but NOT good to connect to the phone. To be sure, I should just use normal USB cables that came with the phone which are reliable.

My suspicion is that to save money, the short USB cables that came with the charger have no data lines at all, just 2 power lines. The phone may need the data lines to negotiate with charger or detect a computer, to figure out what safe current draw to use (I believe the standard calls for certain resistors between the data lines and power lines). When my phone sees this cheap cable with "floating" data lines, it probably just assumes a failed cable or refuses to charge because it can't figure out what safe current limit it can use.

[dannyf]

Box advertised 4000 mAh with each pack, and said 2.1 mAh charging, and even said 40% faster charging with most phones (B.S. Alert).

Honestly, I just wanted for make sure it would charge a modern smartphone at least 1x to full charge, maybe 2x if lucky.

Soon as I opened the package and read the sticker on the back of the actual battery packs (hidden from view) they said INPUT 5V 1000mA, OUTPUT 5V 1000mA!

You are confusing a few basic concepts here.

1) the ***capacity*** of the battery packs is 4000mah;
2) the maximum current to be supplied by the battery pack is 1000ma;
3) the maximum current to be supplied by the charger is 2.1amp (not 2.1ma).

All clearly marked on the package.

The mistake the designer failed to conceive is that such simple concepts can be incredibly confusing to the average joe.

[Barryg41]

is it Quick Charge 2.0  TM  ® trademark . you get what you pay for 
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge

That's what I use also, bought from Amazon for $14.99 Prime.

[Kilrah]

Sorry but as dannyf says everything on here is correctly labelled and checks out even if it might not be obvious or very complete.

[edy]

@Kilrah @dannyf

I agree, the labeling is technically accurate. What is confusing is when it states 2.1 A fast charging, it is referring to the USB wall adapter which has 2 USB ports to charge both packs at ~1000 mA each. The fine details are in the tiny print. You'd think the actual Powerbank OUTPUT was capable of 2.1 A (like my direct wall charger going to the phone).

After some over-night testing, it looks like the culprits were those cheap-@$$ short USB cables that you use to either connect the PowerBanks to the charger, or to connect them to your phone. Just bending the cable slightly one way or the other at the neck causes a fail (open circuit). What, is there like 1 microscopic filament in each wire? Made of aluminum? 

I have used my own USB cables and can wiggle them around all over the place, no problem... always continuity, and the phones charge no problem. They are taking longer to charge though... if it is accepting 1000 mA, you'd think it would take 4-5 hours to charge up a 4000 mAh powerbank, no? Is there multiplier factor like 1.5x or 2x (will 4000 mAh pack take 6-7 hours)?

One more issue which may seal the deal and cause me to give up on them:

The banks have 4 lights which show the level of "fill". I've been charging both overnight for at least 6-7 hours already. Except one of the packs only shows 3 lights, the other shows all 4... What's going on? Why does one powerbank never get past the 3rd level out of 4? I'll swap the cables I'm using also and see if that speeds things up, or the USB slots on the wall-wart.

(Just as I hit the "SAVE" button on this posting... I swapped the cables and lo and behold, the other one started to show a 4th light finally)     Wow, what a pain these Powerbanks have been. It's not like these are the first ones I ever bought. My wife has one, I have an older one. I have good ones and I have cheap ones. These definitely seem to fall in the crappy quality.

I still have one more thing to test... and that's to see how many times it will charge up my phone. I am using a BlackBerry Z10 with an LS1 1800mAh battery. It's a bit old now, but I expect it to be able to charge up to full (or almost full) possibly 2x on this 4000 mAh powerbank. Is that too much to ask?

[dannyf]

Is that too much to ask?

you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

what determines charging speed is the charging protocol / current rating of the source. it has nothing to do with the capacity of the source <directly>, aside from the fact that bigger capacity banks tend to have higher current capacity.

So a 4000mah battery pack (with a current limit of 1000ma) will charge up your battery as slowly as a 1000mah battery pack (with a current limit of 1000ma).

[edy]

So a 4000mah battery pack (with a current limit of 1000ma) will charge up your battery as slowly as a 1000mah battery pack (with a current limit of 1000ma).

Thanks!     Ok so for example, is there any way to get an estimate of how long it takes to charge up various capacity PowerBanks from the wall-wart/mains, given that the wall supplies are always 1000 mA? So how long to charge a 1000 mAh powerbank? What about 2000 mAh, 3000mAh or 4000 MAh? I thought it would be the capacity of powerbank divided by the charge current:

1000 mAh / 1000 mA  = 1 hour to charge. (charging 1000 mAh bank with 1000 mA source)
1000 mAh / 500 mA = 2 hours to charge. (charging 1000 mAh bank with 500 mA source)
4000 mAh / 1000 mA = 4 hours to charge. (charging 4000 mAh bank with 1000 mA source)

At this point, my 4000 mAh powerbank has been plugged into a 1000 mA mains source for close to 8 hours and still blinking the 4th of 4 LED's on it (which indicate how full the powerbank is). The other identical one that came in this 2-bank package has already charged (all 4 LED's are solid).

I guess because the charging curves aren't linear, and there are interactions between the charging circuit and the battery, and there is a "leveling off" of the curve near the capacity of the bank, that it will slow down the charge rate? So you can't do simple calculations like that?

Same would then go for when you want to charge up the phone... So if your phone has a 2000 mAh battery, and your powerbank has 4000 mAh battery, due to inefficiencies you cannot get 2 full charges of your phone battery from the powerbank? Or if your phone has a 1000 mAh battery, you cannot get 4 full charges of your phone battery from the powerbank?

One other thing... the battery sticker says 14.8 Wh. So if I am drawing 1 A of current at 5 V from the powerbank (output) to charge my phone, then it is running at 5 W (1 A x 5 V) and I can sustain this for about 3 hours ... since 5 W x 3 h = 15 Wh. Technically then would I not have only drawn out just under 3000 mAh from this supposedly 4000 mAh powerbank?

Stated another way.... 14.8 Wh = 2960 mAh as per this calculator:

https://milliamps-watts.appspot.com/     

The only clarity I think I have found somewhere has to do with the fact that the cells are 3.7 V and while the voltage needs to be boosted to 5 V for output, and something about efficiency also being 80-90%. So between 3.7 to 5 V, and 80-90% efficiency, is the reason these calculations are all off.

Basically, if I take 5/3.7 x 2960 = 4000 the math makes sense again.

I guess 4000 mAh is the capacity at 3.7 V, which multiplied gives 3.7 V x 4 Ah = 14.8 Wh. I shouldn't be using the 5V at all.    I think I answered my own question....  The confusion stems from the fact that the Li-Ion battery ratings are all based on the 3.7 V voltage of the cell itself, whereas I am treating the entire PowerPack as a 5V source and assuming the 4000 mAh is being delivered at 5V... whereas in fact it is what is being delivered at 3.7V.

Essentially, 4000 mAh @ 3.7V = 2960 mAh @ 5V (and that is 100% efficiency in conversion of voltages). To add to the problem, what happens when it goes into the phone and has to then be converted to something that will charge the 3.7V battery in the phone.... Confusing even more! 

[System Error Message]

how about making our own, we just need to find a good source of batteries, make a good circuit, put it in a box and cut holes for usb. We could than determine how much capacity and actually use a chip for the negotiation with the phone. Perhaps a switch to switch between short on data or chip. I've watched videos where the amount of current the phone pulls is determined either by some sort of negotiation and if thats not available than it will pull current till the voltage drops below a certain point.

[Kilrah]

Thanks!     Ok so for example, is there any way to get an estimate of how long it takes to charge up various capacity PowerBanks from the wall-wart/mains, given that the wall supplies are always 1000 mA? So how long to charge a 1000 mAh powerbank? What about 2000 mAh, 3000mAh or 4000 MAh?

You cannot know, because even if your wall-wart can supply 1A the powerbank may not draw that much, you'd have to measure the particular one you're considering to know.
Most of those on the market only charge with around 500mA.

[IanB]

What is confusing is when it states 2.1 A fast charging, it is referring to the USB wall adapter

I think this is really clear on the packaging. It says "2.1 AMP FAST CHARGING Dual USB AC Charger". It is telling you directly that this is the capability of the USB wall adapter. I think you had something different in your mind and you therefore did not read what the packaging actually says.

[edy]

Ok, Thanks! That makes sense. The wall-wart claims to be able to supply up to 2100 mA total, which I assume is 1.0 A per USB port (since it includes 2 USB connectors to charge both powerbanks simultaneously).

If only 1 USB is being used at a time, I don't think it will provide 2100 mA through that single USB port alone. It is probably always giving about ~1A per USB port, for a maximum of 2A total when both USB ports are plugged in.

I don't know if the wall-wart is built to a proper standard that tells a device that plugs in that it can only supply 1 A per port. It may even think it can only supply 500 mA. If the wall-wart has the proper circuitry to tell the device it can deliver higher amps, the device could draw up to 1 A. If the device that's plugged in is either faulty or ignores the protocol, then it could try drawing more than 1 A which may heat up the wall-wart (unless the wall-wart is also able to detect shorts or higher amp draw and shut things down for safety).

On the other hand, the powerbanks themselves have INPUT 5V~1000mA, OUTPUT 5V~1000mA written on them, so I presume that is what they will be drawing and sourcing. So to charge them, they will need to be connected to AT LEAST a plug capable of delivering 1000mA to them? If I use a 500mA 5V supply, will the powerbank be able to still charge up the battery?

I know I should have no problem plugging in my 2 A BlackBerry Wall-wart to charge the powerbank...  the powerbank will charge fine on that but at no greater speed than plugging it into a 1 A wall-wart. I understand that. 

In any case, both powerbanks are now "topped up". They are both showing full 4 bars when plugged in, no longer blinking, which means they are at full charge. Next test is to see how many times they can bring my phone from 0% dead back to 100%. They are certainly not the fastest charging power banks I've had... they are the largest capacity I've owned thus far, and they still charge at 1000 mA which is same as my smaller ones (which may be even faked to lower capacities) so perhaps that's why they feel slow. I'll time the charge rate for the phone, and also how long it takes to fill from the wall-wart, so I know what to expect for future planning.

[edy]

What is confusing is when it states 2.1 A fast charging, it is referring to the USB wall adapter

I think this is really clear on the packaging. It says "2.1 AMP FAST CHARGING Dual USB AC Charger". It is telling you directly that this is the capability of the USB wall adapter. I think you had something different in your mind and you therefore did not read what the packaging actually says.

   Yes you are probably right.     Notice how if you break up the sentence and change font sizes though it can come across differently. Like this:

2.1 AMP Fast Charging
Dual USB AC Charger

Charge up to 40% Faster

 
See? Very clever! They totally got me, those marketing package designers! Argh!    I can't tell whether they mean the powerbanks are fast charging (which they aren't) or they output higher to charge your phone faster.

The other thing is this... the actual wall-wart DOESN'T in fact charge the power bank any faster. It is 2.1 A but outputs 1 A to each USB port independently. It just means you can plug in both powerbanks at the same time into the wall-wart. But each powerbank still takes the same time to charge as a 1 A charger! The maximum input the powerbanks take is 1000 mA no matter how high the current rating of the wall-wart.... so I still think it was written with the intention to deceive. Or is "fast" considered anything higher than 500 mA?

[Refrigerator]

Most smartphones these days ramp up their current draw and measure how the power source handles it when you plug them in.
Whenever i plug my Xperia in the charger i can hear the squeal of the AC adapter change in steps.

[IanB]

If I buy chargers or AC adapters, I always look for specific phone compatibility information on the packaging. For instance, for Apple devices, I make sure the packaging says "for iPhone or iPad". If it doesn't specifically say this, I don't buy it, since there are various compatibility standards for charging and I won't take the chance of it not working.

As far as charge current is concerned, there should not be an issue with lower output currents than the maximum. Charging would just be slower. For example my iPad charges just fine when plugged into my iPhone charger (1 A instead of 2.4 A), and both devices will charge if plugged into a computer USB port (current limited to 500 mA).