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| Missing items to buy for my soldering kit |
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| EPAIII:
Well, I guess I have been put in my place. Nothing there that anyone could ever argue with. NOTHING at all! --- Quote from: tooki on August 21, 2022, 05:46:37 pm --- --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---I haven’t used a real one, or don’t know how to use it? I have used, well TRIED to use, a Hakko, which I understood is a respected brand. --- End quote --- Hakko is a real one, so I'm gonna go with "don't know how to use it". Bear in mind that correct technique is required and isn't necessarily obvious, and takes practice to get right. Desoldering is also just plain a more fickle process, and part of doing it right is recognizing right away that additional help is needed, such as supplemental heat. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---Perhaps it's not. But I found that I spent far more time clearing if of bits of extracted solder than actually removing solder with it. And, no matter how I used it, there was always some residual solder after the extraction. --- End quote --- There's no question that desoldering irons are needy little divas that demand careful ongoing care and maintenance. But treated well, they perform very well. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---I did not observe any greater volume of air being sucked in when I triggered it and after a second or two of suction the tip would cool to the point where the solder solidified and would not melt again until the vacuum was turned off. I did try wiggling the part for that second or two but that did not improve the removal by much. --- End quote --- Then the technique wasn't right. When done properly, the joint is completely molten before suction is applied. You start moving the pin, when it's completely loose (indicating complete melt) you trigger the vacuum, and the initial rush is what sucks away all the solder. Then you keep moving for a second or two for the cool air to cool the joint down, preventing readhesion. Compared to not moving the pin around, it should be a dramatic difference: with movement, the pin should be completely free, and the component should just fall out when all the pins are done. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---Perhaps the Pace is better. I don't know as I have not used one. If it works for you, then by all means, stick to it with my blessing. --- End quote --- I haven't used a ton of desoldering system brands myself yet: Weller, Pace, Den-On and Ersa. Of those, the Pace and Den-On have performed the best. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---Anyway, our OP is interested in inexpensive methods. I rather doubt that he will buy either a Pace or a Hakko or any other de-soldering station in that price range. A really good, high end, piston style solder sucker costs around $20. I have been using this brand for over 50 years and they are, IMHO, the best. --- End quote --- Agreed. I just think it's important to understand the limitations of solder suckers on plated through-holes, which nowadays are nearly universal. Non-plated through hole is easy. Plated is not. I agree that the Edsyn solder suckers are the best. Though I also have had good results with my tiny Engineer one, which performs better than expected because the silicone tip, which can form a much better seal around the pin, prevents most of the suction going to waste, so to speak. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---"Continuous vacuum is really the only reliable, halfway gentle way to desolder through-hole components...". --- End quote --- You snipped off the most important part of that sentence, which makes me think you didn't take note of it: I said "Continuous vacuum is really the only reliable, halfway gentle way to desolder through-hole components from plated through-holes." Emphasis on the "plated". On non-plated holes, where you have a pad one one or both sides, but the hole itself has no copper cladding, a solder sucker works well. But on plated holes, after using a solder sucker, it's almost inevitable to have a tiny meniscus of solder keeping the pin adhered to the side of the hole. Unless the pin was perfectly centered in the hole when it was soldered, and the solder sucker is able to overcome residual capillary action, you will still end up with a solder bridge to the pin. And if the pin is snug against one side of the hole wall, which is very common, then it's going to remain adhered. The motion of proper continuous-vacuum desoldering ensures the pin can't remain adhered. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---This requires a longer time that the plated hole is subjected to the high temperature. --- End quote --- Slightly. But it ensures you're not later fighting an only partly-desoldered pin. And we're still only talking seconds. If a joint refuses to budge within 3 seconds, you abort, regroup, and first ensure you had proper thermal contact (people are AWFUL about forgetting to tin their desoldering iron tips!) and figure out how to add supplementary heat, like hot air, a preheater, or a soldering iron from the other side, so that you can then achieve a full melt within a few seconds. --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---I have seen PCBs where that heat for a longer time is almost a complete guarantee that the foil will be lifted from the board. Were they a poor PCB? --- End quote --- That can happen with top-quality boards if they're overheated or if pressure is applied while at soldering temperatures. Again, proper technique... --- Quote from: EPAIII on August 21, 2022, 06:15:18 am ---Of course they were. But they were made by a major manufacturer and had to be repaired so there was no choice. The heat and fast suck of a piston style solder sucker was the way to go to prevent that damage. --- End quote --- Proper technique, man... no matter which tool you use, you have to use proper technique. You can mess up a board with a desoldering iron, and you can mess up a board when desoldering with a solder sucker. (In the former, by applying heat for too long, or applying pressure while hot. In the latter, by applying force to the board after the sucker fails to completely free a pin. I've seen both.) In summary, your reply really leads me to believe you don't know proper technique for a desoldering iron. (You are not alone in this.) Watch this ancient, but extremely informative video from Pace. All of it is useful, but Part 5 (17:00-22:22) is the key method: [url]https://youtu.be/IqE1KA0OAnM?t=1022[/url] --- End quote --- |
| tooki:
--- Quote from: EPAIII on August 22, 2022, 09:32:29 am ---Well, I guess I have been put in my place. Nothing there that anyone could ever argue with. NOTHING at all! --- End quote --- Or you could try to learn something… Or if you think I’m actually wrong, explain your position. |
| Boris_yo:
--- Quote from: tooki ---Given that Chinese vendors have proven themselves readily willing to cheat the ratings (by buying positive reviews or by simply fraudulently taking over an old listing for some unrelated, but positively rated, product), I wouldn’t trust Amazon reviews for Chinese items farther than I can spit. :( --- End quote --- Where did you learn about vendors taking over the listing thing? That's a predatory practice. How can these vendors be relied on? It seems freedom of speech is becoming a problem on Amazon and the only reliable reviews are negative because positive reviews are mostly fake news. I wanted to look at 1-4 star reviews of one "brand" but there were none. Only ratings. Feels shady to me. I don't know if there were actually reviews that were suppressed and only ratings remained. Then I looked at another where one review of many expressed concerns about materials used and product being imported having no contact on the packaging because if something happens there will be no information to provide to poison control center in case of emergency. Another review said that when breathed in head feels odd. Are websites like Digikey and Farnell reliable? I find shopping interface there a bit complex and I never ordered from them. |
| tooki:
--- Quote from: Boris_yo on August 23, 2022, 04:37:14 am --- --- Quote from: tooki ---Given that Chinese vendors have proven themselves readily willing to cheat the ratings (by buying positive reviews or by simply fraudulently taking over an old listing for some unrelated, but positively rated, product), I wouldn’t trust Amazon reviews for Chinese items farther than I can spit. :( --- End quote --- Where did you learn about vendors taking over the listing thing? That's a predatory practice. How can these vendors be relied on? --- End quote --- I don’t remember where I first read about it, but it’s been widely reported in the media. Here’s some decent overviews I found quickly: https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/29/20837359/amazon-basics-fake-sellers-imposters-third-party-marketplace https://www.ecomcrew.com/chinese-sellers-manipulating-amazon/ Yes, it’s absolutely predatory. How can they be relied on? They can’t. And even worse, they ruin it for legitimate vendors, too!!! --- Quote from: Boris_yo on August 23, 2022, 04:37:14 am ---Are websites like Digikey and Farnell reliable? I find shopping interface there a bit complex and I never ordered from them. --- End quote --- Yes, they’re reputable. FYI, for Texas Instruments parts, Digi-Key and Mouser are the only worldwide distributors. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: Boris_yo on August 23, 2022, 04:37:14 am ---Are websites like Digikey and Farnell reliable? I find shopping interface there a bit complex and I never ordered from them. --- End quote --- They are among the oldest and most reputable component sellers around. I've been ordering from Digikey since I was a kid in the 90s, Mouser is good too. What difficulty are you having with the shopping interface? It's a simple parametric search. |
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