Author Topic: Modern "music" is shite  (Read 5284 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline engrguy42

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • Country: us
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2020, 06:57:42 pm »
james_s, do you not recognize that you're doing exactly the same thing as you accuse the OP of doing? Lighten up. Stop the personal attacks, and if you don't like what someone posts don't read their threads.

And get the f*** off my lawn !!!!  :-DD
- The best engineers know enough to realize they don't know nuthin'...
- Those who agree with you can do no wrong. Those who disagree can do no right.
- I'm always amazed at how many people "already knew that" after you explain it to them in detail...
 
The following users thanked this post: eti

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10576
  • Country: gb
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2020, 07:28:11 pm »
There was a lot of crap music back in the 60's and 70's as well.
It's since been forgotten and only the really good stuff has survived.

Old grumpy codgers have been singing your lament ever since old grumpy codgers were first invented.

Grumpy old codgers just aren't what they used to be. When I was a lad we had proper grumpy old codgers. You only had to look at a Parky and he'd be chasing you across the park with his spiked stick before you could say "Jack Robinson". Kids these days don't know what it's like to properly scolded by someone to whom you were just the next scourge after Hitler and the Kaiser and they were ready to tell you so at the drop of a hat: "I didn't fight Hitler for the likes of you to sit around smoking on park benches! Get a job and get your bloody hair cut! Now piss off before this old soldier gives you a taste of his walking stick." They were genuinely scary because they'd lived through two wars, not the "great hair gell shortage of '83" that was the worst that most baby boomers have had to deal with, and would happily lay into you with that walking stick in certain knowledge that any constable that came along would probably get their truncheon out and join in with the old codger.

Moaning about "music that kids listen to these days" is strictly amateur hour. Get a walking stick, a Gannex mac, a tweed trilby, some brogues and go and sit on a park bench until some unsuspecting teenager comes into view...
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
The following users thanked this post: newbrain

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21225
  • Country: gb
  • Numbers, not adjectives
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2020, 07:46:22 pm »
There was a lot of crap music back in the 60's and 70's as well.
It's since been forgotten and only the really good stuff has survived.

Old grumpy codgers have been singing your lament ever since old grumpy codgers were first invented.

Grumpy old codgers just aren't what they used to be. When I was a lad we had proper grumpy old codgers. You only had to look at a Parky and he'd be chasing you across the park with his spiked stick before you could say "Jack Robinson". Kids these days don't know what it's like to properly scolded by someone to whom you were just the next scourge after Hitler and the Kaiser and they were ready to tell you so at the drop of a hat: "I didn't fight Hitler for the likes of you to sit around smoking on park benches! Get a job and get your bloody hair cut! Now piss off before this old soldier gives you a taste of his walking stick." They were genuinely scary because they'd lived through two wars, not the "great hair gell shortage of '83" that was the worst that most baby boomers have had to deal with, and would happily lay into you with that walking stick in certain knowledge that any constable that came along would probably get their truncheon out and join in with the old codger.

Moaning about "music that kids listen to these days" is strictly amateur hour. Get a walking stick, a Gannex mac, a tweed trilby, some brogues and go and sit on a park bench until some unsuspecting teenager comes into view...

Back then we had real grumpy gits like Alf Garnett ('Til death us do part). ISTR reading that the BBC was "afraid" to broadcast them now, but that may be unfounded.

Now we merely have Victor Meldrew (One foot in the grave), who is much less aggressive and much less old-school east end working class. I refuse to contemplate that I am beginning to resemble him.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8995
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2020, 07:49:10 pm »
About 30 years ago, we ate dinner downtown before attending the Chicago Symphony concert at Orchestra Hall.  While we were getting our coats from the cloakroom, a matron somewhat older than I (at the time) told her companion: "I hope they don't do some of that dissonant modern music like Bartok", to which I replied, "Lady, Bartok died before you were born."
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10576
  • Country: gb
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2020, 07:55:18 pm »
About 30 years ago, we ate dinner downtown before attending the Chicago Symphony concert at Orchestra Hall.  While we were getting our coats from the cloakroom, a matron somewhat older than I (at the time) told her companion: "I hope they don't do some of that dissonant modern music like Bartok", to which I replied, "Lady, Bartok died before you were born."

Take a look at some of the British upper classes (Jacob Rees-Mogg anybody?) and you'll realise that to them Bartok is modern. No doubt some of the "my family was on the Mayflower" crowd are similar.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline temperance

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 683
  • Country: 00
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2020, 08:13:02 pm »
So temperance, it sounds like you're saying there's good and bad engineers out there. And there's good and bad music out there.

Wow. Thanks for the insight.  :D


No, not really. It's easy to say that today's pop music is shite. Maybe it is really bad. You can also conclude that today's popular culture is not what you like and go elsewhere instead of complaining. Along the same lines, it takes more effort then posting a cat or copying code for an arduino from the net.

Speaking about Bartok. His compositions fell under modernism. Some people seem to call that modern classical music which is wrong.


« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 08:24:46 pm by temperance »
 

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8995
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2020, 08:17:13 pm »
Well, Bartok died in 1945.  For years after that, Igor Stravinsky was considered modern, especially "The Rite of Spring", premiered in 1913, although I remember when Stravinsky died in New York City (as had Bartok) in 1971.  My knowledge of British politics was formed by Monty Python--has it changed since then?  Luckily, the Mayflower never made it so far west as Chicago (we have our own problems).
Technically, Bach and Handel wrote baroque music; Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven wrote classical music;  Brahms and Schumann wrote romantic music; and so on.  However, record stores (remember them) grouped all of the above, along with Bartok and Stravinsky, in the "classical" section.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 09:09:14 pm by TimFox »
 

Offline temperance

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 683
  • Country: 00
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2020, 08:36:37 pm »
Quote
Modern "music" is shite
Thats exactly what my great great great grandfather said about motzat
Mozart was the metallica of his time...

In that time they didn't use recordings of a cat being milked using pliers. They had some sort of wooden boxes with cat intestines which they operated with some kind of bow with hair from horse on it. They can sound great when operated properly. I've been told it takes some skill. Today we have samplers and synthesizers.
 

Offline Bassman59

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2501
  • Country: us
  • Yes, I do this for a living
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2020, 09:12:51 pm »
Quote
Modern "music" is shite
Thats exactly what my great great great grandfather said about motzat
Mozart was the metallica of his time...

And Franz Liszt was The Who of his time.
 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6105
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2020, 09:21:00 pm »
Okay, back to electronics for a moment. Ask, how many of you guys here on the EEVBlog Forum, started your interest in electronics through synthesizers, drum machines, mixers, tape decks, midi controllers, samplers, electric organs, amplifiers, disco decks or electric guitars? Too name but a few. What none of you, some of you, or just about all of you?!
Syntax Error, much respect for the VL-Tone you showed. I have one and it was my first introduction to keyboards (I've been playing for a great part of my 40+ years).

My W-30 music workstation was my first introduction to the still infant world of music sampling and gave me a serious foundation theory about quantization, sampling and, as a side note, serial communications and protocols (MIDI). To date I still have it and love it.

Regarding "modern junk music", it always comes in circles. The OP must be young. When my brother and I were listening to Led Zepellin, Pink Floyd, Supertramp, etc. my dad was telling us to "turn down" or "turn off" that "noise".

I am not a big fan of everything modern, but the two YT videos shown before on this thread are fine examples of what is being done nowadays. I also love the collection of Scott Bradlee's Postmodern Jukebox entirely created in the 2010 years, which remakes old and new songs with massively talented performers and beautiful arrangements. 
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline John B

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: au
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2020, 09:58:59 pm »
The entire framing of the proposition is wrong. The problem is not modernity or some downward trend in the overall technical and theoretical complexity of music, but rather what is presented through the major channels as being mainstream.

We live in the goldenist of golden times of music. You just have to search around for it.

Most of the criticisms of modern music could also be applied to "the good stuff" of years gone by. The most common popular music has always been equal tempered, diatonic and rhythmically based on powers of 2.
 

Offline John B

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: au
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2020, 10:03:44 pm »
A good analogy - think of the greatest achievements in electronics, the greatest engineers and the skill and work it took to achieve them.

Now imagine a cable TV electronics hobby show.

Yeah. That's how I feel about music.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15794
  • Country: fr
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2020, 10:04:07 pm »
One thing for sure, and which is actually on topic with this forum, is that electronics and software have (sometimes radically) changed the way many people do music these days, and this change is hardly comparable to what we have known in the past IMHO.
 

Offline John B

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: au
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2020, 10:09:17 pm »
One thing for sure, and which is actually on topic with this forum, is that electronics and software have (sometimes radically) changed the way many people do music these days, and this change is hardly comparable to what we have known in the past IMHO.

That's putting it mildly. We have extensive additive and subtractive synthesis for musical sound.

We literally have Universal Constructors for music.
 

Offline etiTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1801
  • Country: gb
  • MOD: a.k.a Unlokia, glossywhite, iamwhoiam etc
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2020, 10:10:52 pm »
james_s: This is in "general chat" ;)

True, and in most cases I wouldn't take any issue with it. If you hang around here for a while though you might notice that the OP rarely contributes anything related to engineering, almost every one of his posts is an angry rant filled with bitter vitriol. He gives the impression of being an extremely toxic person filled to the brim with contempt and hatred for the world and the people around him and frankly it's a drain. With all the negativity going on already I just don't see a lot of value in coming in here to piss on everyone. It's the same tired old rants over and over, the stereotypical angry old geezer lamenting the passing of his youth, ranting and raving about the world having gone to hell in a handbasket and everything sucks and get off my lawn.

The rants are old, tired and worn out, they've been around for as long as there have been old people. It depresses me to be getting steadily closer to the grave, still healthy but definitely past my peak I also look back fondly at my youth and wish sometimes that I could go back to those times. Despite this, (ignoring current events which are temporary) the world is not such a bad place these days and it could be worse, living through WWII which happened so soon after WWI must have made everything that has happened this year look like a stroll in the park. The current generation of kids will turn out just fine, there will be some good music produced in this era that people will look back fondly off while moaning about the crap being produced in 2070 or whatever, the cycle will repeat.

"bitter, filled with vitriol and hate" - okkk then - I'll let you off, since you don't know me, ergo are without ANY way to judge me. I could tell you what you "sound like to me", but it would show equal ignorance on my part, and wouldn't be kind.
 

Offline themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3264
  • Country: gb
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2020, 10:43:21 pm »
Quote
We live in the goldenist of golden times of music. You just have to search around for it.
As long as you only want to  listen to it,not see the band live.In the uk at least,the live music scene has declined massively .If your an established name theirs still plenty of venues,but the number of smaller 100-200 cap venues has shrunk dramatically
Some of that is down to the punters being able to watch the latest one hit wonder anytime they want online,but a bigger part was due to making live venues jump through multiple hoops to gain a license or forcing stupid license conditions on long established venues due to new residential developments complaining.Mr venue owner has to spend several thousand pounds to comply,or sell it to the highest bidder. Another strange but true statistic is the 18-25 year olds are drinking less,meaning less bar sales,just the ticket price at a small venue wont pay for the staffing and overheads to keep a venue open.My latest fear is several city's looking at introducing congestion charges,want to bring your van  into the center at 4pm?no problem thats £100 please,for  a band just starting out that could be more than there gig fee.
 

Offline engrguy42

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • Country: us
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2020, 10:50:08 pm »
The entire framing of the proposition is wrong. The problem is not modernity or some downward trend in the overall technical and theoretical complexity of music, but rather what is presented through the major channels as being mainstream.

We live in the goldenist of golden times of music. You just have to search around for it.

Most of the criticisms of modern music could also be applied to "the good stuff" of years gone by. The most common popular music has always been equal tempered, diatonic and rhythmically based on powers of 2.

I think there's a rational case to be made that in fact the "millenial age" modern music is, in large part, nothing of note. And by that I mean where are the legends and icons? Of course there are good singers. There are always good singers all over the world. And with youtube we're starting to see them. But there's mostly a lot of people copying others' music all over youtube. Where are the ones who are not only skilled and talented, but also produce incredible, innovative stuff that will last for decades?

For example, Led Zeppelin. Bonham was arguably one of the greatest rock drummers of all time. Without doubt. And he was together with Page, one of the greatest rock guitarists, without doubt. And Robert Plant arguably one of the greatest rock signers. And the stuff they produced was like nothing before. incredible skills, incredible talents, and they produced stuff that was/is amazing. 

Where's that now? All we get is some catchy tunes by folks who won't be remembered in 2 years. Where are the orchestras? The incredibly talented groups of folks who have been honing their skills for decades, and get together to produce something special, live and in person. Where are the musicians with actual talent? Good singers are a dime a dozen. And good singers copying others' songs are a dime a dozen. Where are the standouts?

I joke a lot about Billie Eilish, but for a good reason. She's a perfect example of the nonsensical attitude of "oh, it's a catchy tune, so she's awesome". Even though she can't even sing, she just freakin' mumbles. The bar has dropped so low that it's freakin' embarassing. I thought it was low with rap music. It just keeps getting lower. Where's the quality, the innovation?

Of course there's been crap throughout the ages. Hell, even millions around the globe fawning over embarassingly horrible crap like "Yellow Submarine". But there are also and unending list of examples of real talent and quality and innovation in past years. And not just the ridiculous Frank Zappa "innovation", but stuff that really changed things in a good way.

IMO, what's missing nowadays is quality, real skill and talent, and producing stuff that's meaningful and innovative. It's all just a catchy tune inside an entertaining video. And just like the youtube users who can't handle anything over 4 minutes without losing interest, everything in the music industry is now produced down to a few minutes. Gone are the long musical stories, the improvisations. Now it's all just bite-sized BS.

Would Stairway to Heaven even exist today? Hell, can you even find a Broadway-type show that isn't just 10,000th repeat of a show that started in the 70's or 80's? Do orchestral concerts even exist anymore? Yeah, there's the occasional catchy tune on the radio by some new, one-hit wonder. But that's not my definition of really good music. 
   
- The best engineers know enough to realize they don't know nuthin'...
- Those who agree with you can do no wrong. Those who disagree can do no right.
- I'm always amazed at how many people "already knew that" after you explain it to them in detail...
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10576
  • Country: gb
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2020, 12:12:22 am »
Where are the orchestras? The incredibly talented groups of folks who have been honing their skills for decades, and get together to produce something special, live and in person. Where are the musicians with actual talent?

Are you kidding me? In normal times I'd just point you to the concert listings for London, or Paris, or Berlin, even Birmingham or Leeds, where there would be several orchestral performances happening this evening in each of those cities, along with chamber music, choral works. Plus Lord knows how many other music genres being represented in those cities in hundreds of live venues. And performances the day after, and the day after that...

There are 48 orchestras listed on Wikipedia for London alone, 54 for the rest of England, 4 for Birmingham, even Leicester has an Orchestra, so does Bournemouth. And we haven't started on Scotland (10), Wales (4, rain stopped play) or Northern Ireland (1).

Where do you live, Vermont? (1 orchestra in the whole state, even Alaska stretches to two.)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 39025
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Modern "music" is shite
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2020, 12:31:34 am »
As a societal barometer, it's not at all surprising to observe how the GOOD "taste" people once had in ACTUAL MUSIC, with tune, rhythm, passion and  depth, has all but eroded away to zero, when your Artificial Assistant misunderstands a basic commands, and tells you to "check out this popular music channel" instead of doing what you commanded it to do (set a timer, turn on the lights, etc) and proceeds to blare out some ridiculous (c)rap or hip-hop (the junk stuff, not the good stuff from the 70s or 80s)

Please stop posting this off-topic stuff.
Thread locked.
Next one gets deleted entirely.
 
The following users thanked this post: mathsquid, tggzzz, Dubbie, Gyro, cgroen, JPortici, james_s, eti


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf