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Moore's Law Continues

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mawyatt:

--- Quote from: TimFox on October 31, 2023, 04:11:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 31, 2023, 06:39:35 am ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on October 30, 2023, 09:27:34 pm ---There are lots of other practical problems with charged-particle optics, especially aberrations, but electron microscopes had achieved spatial resolution better than 1 nm more than 50 years ago.
--- End quote ---
Imaging resolution /= machining resolution. 10nm feature size is pretty tough on a FIB and as above, veeeeerrrryyyyy sssssllllllooooowwwwwwwwww.

--- End quote ---

< 1 nm resolution was obtained in scanning transmission electron microscopes (STEM) around 1970, which is a similar problem to machining resolution.

--- End quote ---

Isn't that "Tunneling" rather than Transmission?

Recall IBM used a similar scanning "probe" technique to spell IBM with individual Xeon atoms!!

https://cen.acs.org/analytical-chemistry/imaging/30-years-moving-atoms-scanning/97/i44

Best,

coppice:

--- Quote from: mawyatt on October 31, 2023, 11:49:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on October 31, 2023, 04:11:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 31, 2023, 06:39:35 am ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on October 30, 2023, 09:27:34 pm ---There are lots of other practical problems with charged-particle optics, especially aberrations, but electron microscopes had achieved spatial resolution better than 1 nm more than 50 years ago.
--- End quote ---
Imaging resolution /= machining resolution. 10nm feature size is pretty tough on a FIB and as above, veeeeerrrryyyyy sssssllllllooooowwwwwwwwww.

--- End quote ---

< 1 nm resolution was obtained in scanning transmission electron microscopes (STEM) around 1970, which is a similar problem to machining resolution.

--- End quote ---

Isn't that "Tunneling" rather than Transmission?

Recall IBM used a similar scanning "probe" technique to spell IBM with individual Xeon atoms!!

https://cen.acs.org/analytical-chemistry/imaging/30-years-moving-atoms-scanning/97/i44

Best,

--- End quote ---
STEM - scanning tunnelling electron microscope. Maybe he mistyped.

Someone:

--- Quote from: TimFox on October 31, 2023, 10:55:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 31, 2023, 10:53:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on October 31, 2023, 04:11:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 31, 2023, 06:39:35 am ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on October 30, 2023, 09:27:34 pm ---There are lots of other practical problems with charged-particle optics, especially aberrations, but electron microscopes had achieved spatial resolution better than 1 nm more than 50 years ago.
--- End quote ---
Imaging resolution /= machining resolution. 10nm feature size is pretty tough on a FIB and as above, veeeeerrrryyyyy sssssllllllooooowwwwwwwwww.
--- End quote ---
< 1 nm resolution was obtained in scanning transmission electron microscopes (STEM) around 1970, which is a similar problem to machining resolution.
--- End quote ---
Restating what you already said doesnt add much if anything. You might think they are similar, but care to share references to single digit nm machining ? Like with lithography the actual resolution achievable is variable depending on the design geometry and not able to be summed up as a single readily comparable number.

--- End quote ---
Don't be a jerk.  I was clarifying my earlier statement.  I was near the lab that achieved that resolution with an STEM, but I am unfamiliar with nm machining.
--- End quote ---
So what did you add?
50 years ago vs 1970's
better than 1 nm vs < 1 nm

At least we now know you are unfamiliar with machining.

TimFox:
As I stated in my post, I was referring to the Scanning Transmission Electron Microscope, which pre-dates the tunneling microscope (developed in 1981).
It is an example of how fine a focus could be achieved with a 100 keV electron beam over 50 years ago.

mawyatt:
Interesting was only aware of the Tunneling version!!

Best,

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