EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Smokey on September 08, 2021, 12:31:19 am
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My first submission is this:
Goal Zero YETI 12V CAR CHARGING CABLE
https://www.goalzero.com/shop/yeti-accessories/yeti-12v-car-charging-cable/ (https://www.goalzero.com/shop/yeti-accessories/yeti-12v-car-charging-cable/)
(https://d4td1un6f2hha.cloudfront.net/media/CACHE/images/products/yeti-12v-car-charging-cable-yeti-12v-car-charging-cable-2-92ee/66e8ae12ab19c24a3eee487e31714d7c.jpg)
The battery chargers want more than 12V input so it's just a boost converter to 15.5V like this guy measured:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqoHPM5ww4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqoHPM5ww4)
......
So you are paying $40USD for a boost converter in a box.
::See Update:: It also appears to detect if the engine is on, and only enables in that case.
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$40 for a good quality boost converter in a box doesn't sounds all that unreasonable to me, how much current can it deliver? I doubt it's just a single component, it's probably a PCB with a handful of parts on it, and it is presumably designed to tolerate the automotive electrical environment and temperature range. A OEM power brick for a laptop will easily cost you more than that.
I was expecting it to be hundreds of dollars from the title of the thread.
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Some high end Agilent/Keysight scopes use a power cord that has a notch so that regular computer type power cords won't fit. I haven't looked up the cost for a replacement power cord for one of those scopes but I would imagine it's easily more than 10x the cost to make it.
A hobbyist who ends up with one of those scopes could probably just cut a notch in a standard cord to make it fit, or cut out the key in the socket so that it will accept regular power cords.
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Some high end Agilent/Keysight scopes use a power cord that has a notch so that regular computer type power cords won't fit. I haven't looked up the cost for a replacement power cord for one of those scopes but I would imagine it's easily more than 10x the cost to make it.
A hobbyist who ends up with one of those scopes could probably just cut a notch in a standard cord to make it fit, or cut out the key in the socket so that it will accept regular power cords.
I'm not sure why Keysight does this (I don't know that there is a legitimate reason to), but that notch is a standard IEC connector for high temperature use. Power cords that include connectors with this notch are rated for higher temperature, and are readily available outside of Keysight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
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I suppose "high end" audio gear could easily win this competition ;)
Not entirely one component (there were a few), but a famous example was Grado RA1 headphone amplifier, which was a single opamp chip with associated passives in a wooden case selling for $400 or something like that.
Some people were a little upset when it came out :-DD
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My first submission is this:
Goal Zero YETI 12V CAR CHARGING CABLE
Every Yeti product is ridiculously overpriced. They sell a bullshit "lifestyle," and that's a heckuva gold mine.
I only wish I was selling this crap to people with more money than sense!
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It's just the Apple of outdoor gear, it's decent stuff but it's also a status symbol. If you wish you were selling this sort of stuff what's stopping you? Design something "high end" and sell it, there are lots of people out there who have plenty of money and there is certainly less useful stuff to buy than an expensive cooler or whatever. I'd spend whatever it costs on a Yeti cooler a long time before I'd spend $1,000 on a painting or sculpture and there are paintings and sculptures that sell for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars. For something that has no function at all beyond being a high priced status symbol.
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Network Analyser cal-kits are a very expensive way of buying 50R resistors!
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The worst one I saw was a serious audiophool exploitation device - a mains lead with a kettle plug on one end a standard mains plug on the other using some rather fancy silver plated cable and some caps/inductors on a boxed PCB in the middle. A steal at a mere $1400.
David
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Some $1000 art brings me way more joy than a $1000 cooler ever could.
Also, Yeti the battery brick company and Yeti the cooler company are not connected (very confusing if you ask me).
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Well whatever, there is no art in the world that brings me $1,000 worth of joy. There are plenty of nice looking paintings and such that are virtually worthless, I'd take a $30 thrift store artwork and virtually anything remotely useful that the other $970 could buy. To each their own but I will never understand why anyone would pay thousands of dollars for a painting. I can't tell the difference between one that's worth thousands and one that's worth next to nothing.
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The worst one I saw was a serious audiophool exploitation device - a mains lead with a kettle plug on one end a standard mains plug on the other using some rather fancy silver plated cable and some caps/inductors on a boxed PCB in the middle. A steal at a mere $1400.
and the stands to lift them off the floor to eliminate "static".
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It's just the Apple of outdoor gear, it's decent stuff but it's also a status symbol. If you wish you were selling this sort of stuff what's stopping you? Design something "high end" and sell it, there are lots of people out there who have plenty of money and there is certainly less useful stuff to buy than an expensive cooler or whatever. I'd spend whatever it costs on a Yeti cooler a long time before I'd spend $1,000 on a painting or sculpture and there are paintings and sculptures that sell for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars. For something that has no function at all beyond being a high priced status symbol.
Expensive art nearly always appreciates, YETIs don't. I'd buy the art.
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I recently had a nice gold tooth implant that did come in a very low tech box in its place as part of a plaster cast of the rest of my teeth. By the time it was installed the bill was over $4K. Did I get my money’s worth; probably in the long run.
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Quote from: NiHaoMike on 2021-09-08, 05:30:39 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=289555.msg3674692#msg3674692)Some high end Agilent/Keysight scopes use a power cord that has a notch so that regular computer type power cords won't fit. I haven't looked up the cost for a replacement power cord for one of those scopes but I would imagine it's easily more than 10x the cost to make it.
A hobbyist who ends up with one of those scopes could probably just cut a notch in a standard cord to make it fit, or cut out the key in the socket so that it will accept regular power cords.
I'm not sure why Keysight does this (I don't know that there is a legitimate reason to), but that notch is a standard IEC connector for high temperature use. Power cords that include connectors with this notch are rated for higher temperature, and are readily available outside of Keysight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320)
Thank you. We call those without the notch "Kaltgerätestecker" in German. I was going to comment that there is a wiki without English translation:
>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger%C3%A4testecker#Kaltger%C3%A4testecker_(IEC-60320_C13/C14 (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ger%C3%A4testecker#Kaltger%C3%A4testecker_(IEC-60320_C13/C14))
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Expensive art nearly always appreciates, YETIs don't. I'd buy the art.
As a general rule I don't buy stuff that takes up space as an investment, I buy stuff I can use. If there's physical I would buy as an investment it would be a classic or exotic car, at least I can take that out for a drive. Kind of a whole different class of expensive though, these "expensive" consumer items we're talking about are expensive only relative to other similar products, it's not really a huge amount of money in an absolute sense.
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::UPDATE::
I learned two things today.
1) I confirmed with the Goal Zero tech support that while the Yeti 500x is designed to be charged from an external USB-C PD source, that source MUST support higher than 5V for the negotiated voltage (either 15V or 20V). If you have a USB-C PD power source that only supports 5V output, that will NOT charge the Yeti 500x. It just sits there and does nothing after it fails to negotiate. No error message. No indication that it even tried. Just nothing. This is both undocumented and impossible to troubleshoot. Bad job Goal Zero!
2) I may have been way too quick to bash their $40 car charger. I think this thing is significantly smarter than I gave it credit for.
Since the USBC charger thing didn't work, I ended up buying their 12V car charger adapter anyway (needed something as a plan-c last minute solution). I plugged it into the cigarette lighter port on my car and turned on the car's aux key position so the port would go live but didn't turn the engine on because I didn't want to waste gas. The LED on the charger came on so I know the 12V was live, but it refused to charge the yeti 500x. Again, nothing. No error, no indicator, nothing. I confirmed the AC-DC power brick charged from the wall and was about to take it back as defective, when I had the idea to turn the engine on first.
As soon as I turned the engine on, the LED color on the 12V charging cable changed from red to green and it started charging the battery bank! There appears to be at least one additional component in this box that can tell if the engine is running, and only pulls current in that case. This is actually really smart since you don't want to accidently drain someone's car battery just to charge a utility battery. The plastic case has no screws and appears to be glued together really well so no taking it apart without mangling it. Sorry.
So there you go. Sorry, Goal Zero. Your $40 boost converter + possible engine detect circuit in a box is probably an acceptable value.
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Network Analyser cal-kits are a very expensive way of buying 50R resistors!
Not so easy to make a 50 ohm resistor, that is still 50 ohms at 50 GHz. Maybe 3 or 4 companies in the world do a good job of it.
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There appears to be at least one additional component in this box that can tell if the engine is running, and only pulls current in that case.
It's probably measuring the input voltage. A car's system voltage will usually go up from 12V to about 13 or 14V when the alternator is running.
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Network Analyser cal-kits are a very expensive way of buying 50R resistors!
Not so easy to make a 50 ohm resistor, that is still 50 ohms at 50 GHz. Maybe 3 or 4 companies in the world do a good job of it.
Just to find that someone at your lab has changed it with a normal 100 ohms resistor and all the measurements you have taken need to be retaken :palm:
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It is not your grandfa's axial resistor in the 50 Ohm cal standard. Also, try disassembling an industrial cal standard and let us know how easy it was.
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I remember one: Was looking at a faulty manifold pressure sensor in a racing plane and why it failed. Opened it and found that it's basically a through hole part from ST in a milled little box (4-wire - power supply and diff out). The part cost was 10€, but since the sensor was FAA certified, the sensor costs some ~300-400€. Go figure... Maybe I'm in the wrong business :) To be fair, certification is kinda expensive.
EDIT: Found the sensor. It seems the price went down a little. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php)
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I remember one: Was looking at a faulty manifold pressure sensor in a racing plane and why it failed. Opened it and found that it's basically a through hole part from ST in a milled little box (4-wire - power supply and diff out). The part cost was 10€, but since the sensor was FAA certified, the sensor costs some ~300-400€. Go figure... Maybe I'm in the wrong business :) To be fair, certification is kinda expensive.
EDIT: Found the sensor. It seems the price went down a little. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php)
Good example, although it looks like two parts in the photo. And one of the parts must have had an aerospace connector on it right?
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I remember one: Was looking at a faulty manifold pressure sensor in a racing plane and why it failed. Opened it and found that it's basically a through hole part from ST in a milled little box (4-wire - power supply and diff out). The part cost was 10€, but since the sensor was FAA certified, the sensor costs some ~300-400€. Go figure... Maybe I'm in the wrong business :) To be fair, certification is kinda expensive.
EDIT: Found the sensor. It seems the price went down a little. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php)
Good example, although it looks like two parts in the photo. And one of the parts must have had an aerospace connector on it right?
That's the messed up part: It had 4-pins sticking out so you can connect a 2.54mm header onto them! On a FAA cert part in an acrobatic/racing plane. I thought it was a joke.