EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Black Phoenix on September 09, 2022, 01:16:14 am
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Politics are not allowed but I think that this renders a post.
My condolences. Please keep it civil in accordance to the forum rules.
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It's hugely sad news of course, London bridge has fallen.
Almost certainly game changing for Australia. We had a referendum in 1999 to become a republic and it was only barely rejected back then.
The Queen is the one who held the entire system together for 70 years, now that she's gone I fully expect another referendum within the next year, and I would expect it to pass this time. Hardly anyone likes Charles.
So my money is Australia having an elected president instead of a Prime Minister within a few years.
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I called it. Didn't even last 24hrs.
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I called it. Didn't even last 24hrs.
Poor old girl wasn't even cold.
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Sad partly because she generally did way more good than any harm on balance over decades. :-+
But the Elephant soon to enter the room as King just will not remain undiscussed in this country at least. The only reason the unelected mob on the other side of the planet were not removed last time was because of the loaded question put to us and the generally good feeling about the Queen. Rephrase the Question with King Chuck in place is an easy 10-15% change.
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Well that didn't take long for genuine condolence to turn into 'all about Australian politics'. Shame on you Dave! :(
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Well that didn't take long for genuine condolence to turn into 'all about Australian politics'. Shame on you Dave! :(
This debate has about zero to do with Australian 'politics' and has everything to do with our current 'historic legal relationship' with an unelected Monarch and what is to follow after the Queen's sad passing. If you had any idea about how this country felt about the Monarchy before and in particular King Chuck that will follow then you would know it crosses ALL political views on the for and against.
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Queen Elizabeth was a kind and cheerful person and she was very respected all over the world (she gained that respect). So, I guess, very many people feel sad now, and me too. An epoch has gone. :(
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Well that didn't take long for genuine condolence to turn into 'all about Australian politics'. Shame on you Dave! :(
This debate has about zero to do with Australian 'politics' and has everything to do with our current 'historic legal relationship' with an unelected Monarch and what is to follow after the Queen's sad passing. If you had any idea about how this country felt about the Monarchy before and in particular King Chuck that will follow then you would know it crosses ALL political views on the for and against.
I really don't give a damn how your country feels about the Monarchy, that's your business but as far as I'm concerned you have pro and anti politicians, lobbies and public opinions on a referendum.
We are a country in mourning and the OP expressed genuine condolence for the loss of our, and the Comonwealth's Monarch, who was deeply respected on the world stage and somebody who has always been in our lives. If you want to discuss your local 'non politics' then I suggest that you show some respect and take it somewhere else.
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Queen Elizabeth was a kind and cheerful person and she was very respected all over the world (she gained that respect). So, I guess, very many people feel sad now, and me too. An epoch has gone. :(
Well said!
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Well that didn't take long for genuine condolence to turn into 'all about Australian politics'. Shame on you Dave! :(
This debate has about zero to do with Australian 'politics' and has everything to do with our current 'historic legal relationship' with an unelected Monarch and what is to follow after the Queen's sad passing. If you had any idea about how this country felt about the Monarchy before and in particular King Chuck that will follow then you would know it crosses ALL political views on the for and against.
I really don't give a damn how your country feels about the Monarchy, that's your business but as far as I'm concerned you have pro and anti politicians, lobbies and public opinions on a referendum.
We are a country in mourning and the OP expressed genuine condolence for the loss of our, and the Comonwealth's Monarch, who was deeply respected on the world stage and somebody who has always been in our lives. If you want to discuss your local 'non politics' then I suggest that you show some respect and take it somewhere else.
Seriously YOU are pushing YOUR view down our throats so How in hell is that 'different' Pull your head in preacher!
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Lock the thread! >:(
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As someone who has no direct connection to the monarchy I can honestly say that most of the world will miss her and rue her passing. A nice and thoughtful lady.
I hope most can offer respect for the individual regardless of their opinion of the office.
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Lock the thread! >:(
You really need to READ what has been said about her we are all saddened by her loss and ALL have said positive things about her. You arrived here fists swinging!
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Ok, sadness is deep here, as are sensitivities. It was inappropriate / insensitive for Dave to immediately bring up Australian referendums, where his money was and his '#RepublicNow' banner.
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Looks like it was a mistake when I created this thread.
My objective was into giving proper recognition and condolences as a Portuguese citizen, and as the oldest continuous alliance in the world.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-portugal-joint-declaration-on-bilateral-cooperation/uk-portugal-joint-declaration-on-bilateral-cooperation (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-portugal-joint-declaration-on-bilateral-cooperation/uk-portugal-joint-declaration-on-bilateral-cooperation)
As someone who have a lot of recognition and respect from what the UK had achieved (sometimes even envy when compared with my own birth country), who have tons of Nationals as his friends and close contacts (from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland), who visit their country more times that I remember counting and made an enormous force when a kid to learn the language and story of a country who was not his but had a ton of respect for.
I don't care about politics so I probably thought (wrongly) that this could not been spin into a politics thread. But looks like I forgot to account for the feelings of others.
Sorry then.
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Sorry @Black Phoenix, not your fault. Your thoughts and condoloences were clearly very genuine.
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Indeed. Black Phoenix, you have nothing for which to apologise.
I, for one, have had a respect and admiration for the Queen who performed a duty expected of her in a role she never sought - but more that she has done so in an exemplary manner.
She is the only monarch I have known - and I can still remember the portrait of her hanging in our classrooms back in primary school. Today is a day where things have changed in a way that the people of the Commonwealth (and a chunk of the world) will have never experienced in their lives. It is a day of great sadness.
To those mourning in the UK (and elsewhere), please know this: There are quite a few of us here in Oz that not only understand your grief, but share in it.
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I'm not pro-Royal Family, and I think they should just be treated as a normal family without any constitutional significance.
Still, it was pretty sad to hear the news, and the best wishes to her family.
Having a King will be odd, and I think it could well strain the relationship with the Monarchy in the UK and Commonwealth. (A fun, side-fact, it is for Elizabeth II that we refer to the "Royal Family" and not the "Monarchy", which was the prior terminology. It does make them seem all the more approachable.)
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It's crazy to me that anyone could take a look at modern Britain or Australia and decide that the thing we really need is MORE "democracy" or MORE elected officials.
HM The Queen transcended all that nonsense. In an age of insanity, she was the one constant that anchored us in tradition and to the wisdom and glories of the past. I don't know about anyone else but my main feeling at this time is one of dread.
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... she was the one constant that anchored us in tradition and to the wisdom and glories of the past.
The world does not have a monolithic view, especially on an issue as big and as "historical" as UK's monarchy leader based on UK's "adventures" throughout the world for past centuries. She was the "symbol" of the adventures.
In some part of the world, the views (example below) are even far more extreme than Dave's, and its understandable from their POV and their history.
Carnegie Mellon professor wishes Queen Elizabeth ‘excruciating pain’ as she ‘finally’ dies
-> https://www.foxnews.com/us/carnegie-mellon-professor-wishes-queen-elizabeth-excruciating-pain-she-finally-dies (https://www.foxnews.com/us/carnegie-mellon-professor-wishes-queen-elizabeth-excruciating-pain-she-finally-dies)
Freedom of expression maybe ? :-//
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... she was the one constant that anchored us in tradition and to the wisdom and glories of the past.
The world does not have a monolithic view, especially on an issue as big and as "historical" as UK's monarchy leader based on UK's "adventures" throughout the world for past centuries. She was the "symbol" of the adventures.
In some part of the world, the views (example below) are even far more extreme than Dave's, and its understandable from their POV and their history.
Carnegie Mellon professor wishes Queen Elizabeth ‘excruciating pain’ as she ‘finally’ dies
-> https://www.foxnews.com/us/carnegie-mellon-professor-wishes-queen-elizabeth-excruciating-pain-she-finally-dies (https://www.foxnews.com/us/carnegie-mellon-professor-wishes-queen-elizabeth-excruciating-pain-she-finally-dies)
Freedom of expression maybe ? :-//
The joke of it here, most monarchists can at least understand someone's wish not have a British Monarch rule over them, yet they then follow up with "Instead of ER, I want this guy here to rule over me."
:palm:
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No matter what someone’s political or Commonwealth views may be. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II was an example to us all. She gave her whole adult life to the Role of Queen and took her responsibilities extremely seriously to the very end. Such self sacrifice is indeed rare and evidence of an amazing person. It is for these reasons that we love our Queen so much. Will we ever again see a person so committed to their role and unflinching in the face of a workload that would have many running for the hills ? I think it unlikely. Later generations appear less inclined to give up their normal lives for the greater good.
It is not about her title, it is all about the amazing person who was Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
My thoughts are with her family, as to them she was a Mother, Grandmother and Great Grandmother. Losing family is a horrible experience, royalty or not. We are all human.
I am grateful to the OP for this thread but, in my heart, knew it would lead to some controversial posts. That is just the sad World that we live in.
Fraser
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As for Uja Anya, words fail me and she will live to regret her outburst of hate. She is indeed fortunate to live in a country that celebrates freedom of expression and speech. She forgot a very important detail though….. what you write on the Internet is FOREVER, and the following applies …..
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt !
May Uja Anya be shamed by her horrendous statement for the rest of her life. She brought it upon herself.
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I think, it is Uju Anya:
https://ujuanya.com/ (https://ujuanya.com/)
The Independent about this case:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uju-anya-carnegie-mellon-university-queen-b2163324.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uju-anya-carnegie-mellon-university-queen-b2163324.html)
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As for Uja Anja, words fail me and he will live to regret his outburst of hate. He is indeed fortunate to live in a country that celebrates freedom of expression and speech. He forgot a very important detail though….. what you write on the Internet is FOREVER, and the following applies …..
That's exactly why I don't get too offended because I really do want to understand what happened and how they got to that point.
I doesn't help sometimes when I'm less tolerant and just say something like "Show me on the doll where Her Maj hurt you." :(
I think you had to be young during Her prime to appreciate QEII. All those pink countries on the map and such. Those old enough know what I'm talking about.
For example, She inspired generations of women yet the most recent generation rejects it in favour of looking to such bazaar role models.
edit pink not purple.
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If you aussys are looking for a president to replace the queen we've got a boris going spare you can have,free of charge.If you promise to keep him we'll even throw in the p+p.
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I think, it is Uju Anya:
https://ujuanya.com/ (https://ujuanya.com/)
The Independent about this case:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uju-anya-carnegie-mellon-university-queen-b2163324.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uju-anya-carnegie-mellon-university-queen-b2163324.html)
And if you see the story of the reply to her tweet after the one who caused all, there is support for both sides, both in favour and against.
"A keyboard war that no one is going to win."
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As for Uja Anja, words fail me and he will live to regret his outburst of hate. He is indeed fortunate to live in a country that celebrates freedom of expression and speech. He forgot a very important detail though….. what you write on the Internet is FOREVER, and the following applies …..
That's exactly why I don't get too offended because I really do want to understand what happened and how they got to that point.
I doesn't help sometimes when I'm less tolerant and just say something like "Show me on the doll where Her Maj hurt you." :(
I think you had to be young during Her prime to appreciate QEII. All those purple countries on the map and such. Those old enough know what I'm talking about.
For example, She inspired generations of women yet the most recent generation rejects it in favour of looking to such bazaar role models.
Those countries were pink when I was a kid.
Hey!---Guess what? I remember King George VI dying!
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As for Uja Anja, words fail me and he will live to regret his outburst of hate. He is indeed fortunate to live in a country that celebrates freedom of expression and speech. He forgot a very important detail though….. what you write on the Internet is FOREVER, and the following applies …..
That's exactly why I don't get too offended because I really do want to understand what happened and how they got to that point.
I doesn't help sometimes when I'm less tolerant and just say something like "Show me on the doll where Her Maj hurt you." :(
I think you had to be young during Her prime to appreciate QEII. All those purple countries on the map and such. Those old enough know what I'm talking about.
For example, She inspired generations of women yet the most recent generation rejects it in favour of looking to such bazaar role models.
Those countries were pink when I was a kid.
Hey!---Guess what? I remember King George VI dying!
Shit! You're right. Pink. Maybe I need to install that solder fumes extractor.
Pink things look purple with these rose colored glasses. :-[
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One thing that Royalists always come up with is the idea that having a Monarch is "a bulwark against Authoritarianism".
Of the Axis powers in WW2, only Germany was a Republic---Italy & Japan were Constitutional Monarchies!
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Since it's been mostly Aussies and Brits in this thread, I thought I'd chime in.
Although we Americans gave the British monarchy the heave-ho 250 years ago, we don't want to see the British monarchy go away because it provides us with lots of entertainment following the crazy antics of the royals in the papers and on the news.
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As for Uja Anya, words fail me and she will live to regret her outburst of hate. She is indeed fortunate to live in a country that celebrates freedom of expression and speech. She forgot a very important detail though….. what you write on the Internet is FOREVER, and the following applies …..
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt !
May Uja Anya be shamed by her horrendous statement for the rest of her life. She brought it upon herself.
Unfortunately I doubt it. The rules are different for some groups than for others.
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My condolences as well. She was the last of her kind -- the last world leader who served in the armed forces during WW II.
The UK and The World will miss her. I am not sure anyone in the current line of succession will in their life time garners the respect she earned in her life time from both friends and foes.
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... she was the one constant that anchored us in tradition and to the wisdom and glories of the past.
The world does not have a monolithic view, especially on an issue as big and as "historical" as UK's monarchy leader based on UK's "adventures" throughout the world for past centuries. She was the "symbol" of the adventures.
In some part of the world, the views (example below) are even far more extreme than Dave's, and its understandable from their POV and their history.
Carnegie Mellon professor wishes Queen Elizabeth ‘excruciating pain’ as she ‘finally’ dies
-> https://www.foxnews.com/us/carnegie-mellon-professor-wishes-queen-elizabeth-excruciating-pain-she-finally-dies (https://www.foxnews.com/us/carnegie-mellon-professor-wishes-queen-elizabeth-excruciating-pain-she-finally-dies)
Freedom of expression maybe ? :-//
I was quite clearly referring to British and Australian subjects with my use of "us", though I suppose I would extend that to the other Anglo Saxon dominions too.
I was not addressing "the world" and frankly am unconcerned with what "the world" thinks, let alone some insane, resentful, self-pittying savage from some hellhole of a US university humanities department.
That you would repeat and proliferate her nonsense here and declare that it is "understandable" reveals much about you. A disgraceful statement to make.
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In some part of the world, the views (example below) are even far more extreme than Dave's, and its understandable from their POV and their history.
I think you can be not keen on someone and still be respectful of their passing. I really REALLY loath Boris, for instance, and would hope he pays a big price for what he's done to the UK. But if he kicked the bucket tomorrow I'd be sad for him as a fellow human and would refrain from disrupting his family's and associates' mourning. Most emphatically, I wouldn't be celebrating his death.
I think it's also worth remembering that the Queen represented the Monarchy, just as Boris represents the Government, and whatever you think about the benefits of keeping or losing those, you are arguing about the institutions rather than the person who just happens to be the current figurehead. The Queen was an actual person who had her own feelings and direction. In her case she put herself second, behind the country, for seven decades. No-one could have asked for more from her, and she couldn't have given more.
Surely most of us aren't brought up badly enough that we can't wait just a day or two, to allow for the usual celebration of someone's life, before going on the attack again against an institution they just happened to be born into.
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Beautifully put Dunkemhigh :clap:
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Surely most of us aren't brought up badly enough that we can't wait just a day or two..
Has enough time elapsed yet? Because I've got memes. A lot of memes.
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From a fellow Portuguese citizen (although born and raised in Brasil - long history there) to another, I also feel sad about the passing of the leader of our longest allied country and extend the respect to our fellow British and commonwealth folks.
The time is for mourning and respect for the ones that remain, regardless of personal views on the figurehead. Although free will is a God granted right that the western world has been able to maintain with a reasonable level of success, some will take that right to sad extents and say things that are not congruent with the humanity of the ones mourning the occasion. Oh well, we can only hope that someday they will see the insensitivity of their words and actions.
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A half hour video examining the gravity of the event..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZMbCDx8qIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZMbCDx8qIM)
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For those interested in how this is all carried off (because it has to be well organised), this is a Long Read from The Guardian detailing it all. Written in 2017 but still mostly applicable (it's been in the planning for a loooong time):
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge)
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Almost certainly game changing for Australia. We had a referendum in 1999 to become a republic and it was only barely rejected back then.
The Queen is the one who held the entire system together for 70 years, now that she's gone I fully expect another referendum within the next year, and I would expect it to pass this time. Hardly anyone likes Charles.
Yeah. Oddly enough - as "republics" are kinda the norm now in the West for the most part - I don't think it would be good news for Australia either. Nor that it is for the UK itself, as it's possibly going to change as well in some ways.
So my money is Australia having an elected president instead of a Prime Minister within a few years.
That would be my bet as well.
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Politics aside, queen Elizabeth was one heck of a non political head of state, who had an impressive work ethic, devoting her life to the country. This is the end of an era, the like of which we will never see.
May her soul rest in peace.
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An interesting piece written by Neil Mackay of The Herald, Scotland. Food for thought and I agree with many of his views. I am not anti monarchy however. We live in a very troubled World and the situation is not looking like it will improve any time soon :'(
Maybe that is why I enjoy interacting with the pleasant people that I have found on this most excellent forum. I distance myself from those who would have a negative impact upon my happiness :-+
By Neil Mackay
@neilmackay
Writer at large
Neil Mackay: The tidal wave of hate toward the Queen made me ashamed to be a human being
THE torrent of hate and cruelty across the world on social media in response to the death of the Queen was astonishing in its ferocity and callousness. It speaks of something deeply damaged - ruined - within the souls of so many of our fellow men and women.
I felt ashamed yesterday not just as an anti-monarchist, but as a member of a species - the human race - which has among it those who hold such hatred in their breast. Anyone who cannot extend empathy to a fellow human being at the moment of their death has some terrible shadow on their soul. If they cannot be kind, then at least stay silent. Do not dance upon a grave. We must ask: what world have we created that there’s those among us who bear such deep wells of gleeful hatred, such proud sadism.
As an anti-monarchist, I’ve never held animosity towards Queen Elizabeth. It’s the institution of monarchy I’ve a problem with, not the fellow human upon the throne. The Queen was born into her position - indeed, that’s part of the problem many republicans like me have with monarchy - she didn’t seize her title or force herself on Britain.
The viciousness - the inhumanity - towards the Queen as she was dying didn’t just come from these islands. Far from it. The tidal wave of mockery and sick delight swept the world. It cut across all demographics of race, gender and age.
Much focus has fallen Dr Uju Anya, a professor at America’s Carnegie Mellon University in Pennsylvania. She wrote of the Queen, “may her pain be excruciating”, and said: “I heard the chief monarch of a thieving raping genocidal empire is finally dying.”
Like many citizens of this country, I detest Britain’s colonial past, and have long argued that as a nation we must confront our legacy of racism and empire with unstinting honesty. However, one cannot blame the Queen for the sins of empire, or the sins of Britain which took place during her reign. A constitutional monarch is a figurehead without power. She didn’t dispatch troops. Prime Ministers did. If there’s understandable rage, then direct it at the right people, not an elderly woman on her deathbed.
It’s quite something to say that there were indeed many more - millions in fact - comments which far exceeded Anya’s dreadful statement.
Yesterday, it chilled me as a human being - it still chills me - to think that there’s so many people out there filled with such devastating hatred, and prepared to aim it in any direction.
We can no longer claim that what happens online stays online. The people who post these terrible things live in the real world. They carry in their hearts the same words and hate which they serve up digitally. They’re free to speak as they please, but they represent something truly terrible in humanity.
What have we done to create this world? This is a matter for political leaders and philosophers to unravel, because we can no longer blithely accept a world which has such a cancer in its soul.
Yet Britain must also learn from this hate. Obviously, these terrible comments shouldn’t have been aimed at the Queen, but our nation is clearly widely despised internationally for our past actions. We must realise that, accept it, and respond to it. Perhaps, if we’d honestly acknowledged the dreadful things done in Britain’s name over the centuries and the decades, the cruel and soulless people who couldn’t even find it within them to keep a respectful silence as a woman died wouldn’t have found a platform for their terrible inhumanity.
Article taken from here:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/21253190.neil-mackay-tidal-wave-hate-toward-queen-made-ashamed-human/ (https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/21253190.neil-mackay-tidal-wave-hate-toward-queen-made-ashamed-human/)
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Politics aside, queen Elizabeth was one heck of a non political head of state, who had an impressive work ethic, devoting her life to the country. This is the end of an era, the like of which we will never see.
I suspect it's not possible to find a better example.
70 years of steady bedrock amid a turbulent and tumultuous world.
I won't post the video, but I saw Jordan Peterson's take on it today and it was very interesting.
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JP "..well..[6secs]..maybe we will wise-up and recognize that we have something absolutely precious to guard.."