General > General Technical Chat
WHO USED ALL THE HOT WATER!!! Need a simple temperature data logger ** UPDATE **
coppice:
--- Quote from: Zucca on August 20, 2023, 04:59:04 am ---
--- Quote from: vad on August 20, 2023, 03:41:25 am ---Tankless water heater is one of the best solutions.
--- End quote ---
Until the teenager daughter will brake daddy bank causing astronomical gas bills.
--- End quote ---
The bathroom repair bills after she causes anything not solid plastic, metal or glazed to peel or blacken with mould can exceed the gas bill.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: coppice on August 20, 2023, 07:10:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zucca on August 20, 2023, 04:59:04 am ---
--- Quote from: vad on August 20, 2023, 03:41:25 am ---Tankless water heater is one of the best solutions.
--- End quote ---
Until the teenager daughter will brake daddy bank causing astronomical gas bills.
--- End quote ---
The bathroom repair bills after she causes anything not solid plastic, metal or glazed to peel or blacken with mould can exceed the gas bill.
--- End quote ---
Why would that happen with an instant hot water heater but not with a hot water tank?
Rick Law:
--- Quote from: Brumby on August 20, 2023, 02:31:19 am ---..
My idea is to have a temperature sensor mounted on the main hot water pipe before it splits off to the various taps, with temperatures recorded at regular intervals, including timestamp. This will show when hot water was used - and for how long.
...
4. Suggestions.....
--- End quote ---
I assume your "main hot water pipe" is where hot water exits the water-heater or very near it. I will call it "main pipe" as abbreviation.
Depending on how your plumbing is routed, "main pipe" may not be the best spot. You have more factors to consider -- (1) hot water still in the system when water tap is turned off and (2) where the hot water is going.
Easy way to clarify is to lay down a scenario: Let just say, you are taking a shower military-style (at or under 2 minutes). 5 minute after your shower, someone turn the hot water in the kitchen for 1 minute to rinse a cup. Now the "main pipe" is re-filled with freshly heated water again before it was cooled measurably after your shower. Say another 10 minutes later, someone washes his/her hands in the second bath-room, now the main pipe is re-filled with hot water again. So on, each time the hot water is used briefly, the "main-pipe" refills with hot water and it may not cool for a very long while.
The best position would be at the shower-head, there temperature alone will work. Otherwise, you have to know the cooling time of still-water in the pipe, and consider any "branching" to another outlet. Note also, if the shower room is high such as in the 2nd floor while the water heater is in the basement, there are a lot of pipes holding the not-running but still hot water. The hot water will rise to the highest point it can even if the hot water is not running.
Edited to add this: For cooling time, you also have to consider ambient temperature around the pipe. I am sure it will change a lot on a hot day verses the cool evening after sun down.
coppice:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 20, 2023, 09:15:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on August 20, 2023, 07:10:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zucca on August 20, 2023, 04:59:04 am ---
--- Quote from: vad on August 20, 2023, 03:41:25 am ---Tankless water heater is one of the best solutions.
--- End quote ---
Until the teenager daughter will brake daddy bank causing astronomical gas bills.
--- End quote ---
The bathroom repair bills after she causes anything not solid plastic, metal or glazed to peel or blacken with mould can exceed the gas bill.
--- End quote ---
Why would that happen with an instant hot water heater but not with a hot water tank?
--- End quote ---
Er, isn't that obvious. So many of them only stop showering when the water runs cold. Continuous hot water means they steam up the bathroom until it falls apart. If you have a really effective extractor fan you can stop it, but in the winter that means you are exhausting a lot of expensively heated air, so going wild with the extractor was more for when we lived in a hot and super humid climate.
ywara:
I think you need to take a step back and look at the problem statement.
The problem statement: There isn't one. Domestic bickering about lack of hot water or energy consumption isn't really a problem of hot water or energy consumption, but a problem of bickering. Bickering is a problem without a solution.
So there are two ways to approach this, I think.
1. Monitor who is using hot water. I suggest RFID tags attached to all persons. Combined with sensors on the various faucets, shower valves, toilets (if you have hot water plumbed to your toilets), washing machines, etc. you can track who is using what. In many cases you should be able to adapt simple limit switches. In high-flow applications (e.g. a bathtub) you may need an angular position sensor on the blending valve or hot water valve.
2. Monitor hot water demand, and correlate with potential culprits. Install cheap wifi cameras in or near bathrooms, kitchens, and laundry rooms. Add simple digital datalogging to your hot water heater(s). When they are on, hot water is being produced since it was recently depleted. You can easily correlate the users to the demand.
I suspect #2 is more practical for small households. Perhaps 8 people or less. #1 will scale better to large families into the hundreds.
Both of these options probably result in family counseling or court. Tread carefully, but sometimes victory is worth it.
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