General > General Technical Chat
WHO USED ALL THE HOT WATER!!! Need a simple temperature data logger ** UPDATE **
Muttley Snickers:
There is only one thing for it, you need to get evil on their arse. >:D
tautech:
--- Quote from: Brumby on August 21, 2023, 12:59:00 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on August 20, 2023, 11:34:57 pm ---There are many fish hooks in a problem like this.
1. Already mentioned that Powerco's manage their demand by switching water heating loads.
2. Hot water storage capacity is insufficient for the demand.
3. Mum did a large load/s with the washing machine that day.
4. Heating regulation settings are just too low for the capacity/demands.
5. The plumbing installation can be substandard with long runs to each HW draw point wasting HW just supplying each outlet. Smart systems use a constant return system to have HW instantly on tap.
6. While there are often local regulations as to how hot water heating can be set these can be overridden with the installation of a tempering valve at the HWC outlet that mixes cold to maintain a constant and safe HW temp for consumers.
Addressing any one of the above can have problems miraculously vanish.
Engage a smart/experienced plumber for a fix.
--- End quote ---
While all those points are valid in their own right, you have completely missed the primary objective - which is to identify WHO is using up the hot water. If I can identify the time and duration, the head of the household has told me they can then identify who. If I can add an indication of flow rate, then this would be icing on the cake.
As for problems miraculously vanishing - I would take that with a huge grain of salt. From what I have gleaned, all that will happen is the culprit(s) will hear "unlimited hot water" - no matter how you phrase it - and the problem simply changes scale. The problem needs to be brought to heel, not encouraged.
Plumber expense is not on the table.
--- End quote ---
What HW capacity currently exists and what is the temp it is set to ?
Starting with a higher storage heat effectively lifts capacity by reducing flow rates at point of use.
These are simple things anyone can do for a possible easy remedy.
Then you can have dictatorial Gubbermints that propose to legislate shower head flow rates to preserve water and power resources and were appropriately booted out at the next elections. :horse:
Put a 5 minute egg timer in the kitchen then turn ON the taps when 5 minutes is exceeded.
Kim Christensen:
It seems odd that knowing the time of day when massive hotwater usage occurs will identify the culprit. Because you probably already have that information and still can't figure it out:
ie: If the sequence of people showering is A, B, C, D, E and C & maybe D are always complaining about cold water, then it follows that B is your problem.
But if you don't know the sequence, then how will knowing the times of temperature change help at all?
Brumby:
--- Quote from: floobydust on August 21, 2023, 02:59:55 am ---Using only one sensor will not work I think. One quantity (temperature) there is too much lag due to the thermal mass of the pipe and water inside it.
I expect false imprisonment because your datalogs will show a longer cooldown time for the water pipe, long after the shower is stopped.
--- End quote ---
Think about that for a second.
The result of frequent observations will give a chart showing the temperature profile over time. From that, you can deduce a few things by simple observation.
If I have a chart of temperature every 10 seconds, then I can identify a start time when there is a sharp increase. Likewise, a stop time will be indicated by the beginning of a steady drop. Making observations from experimental exercises will (I hope) soon show how this will appear - and possibly allow for further inferences. For example (assuming we have enough sample points) a fast initial rise will indicate a comparatively high flow rate and a slower initial rise will indicate a lower flow rate.
Also, adding extra sensors could identify a variation in steady state flow. For example (for illustration purposes only): If, at a given ambient temperature, the difference between the outlet temperature and a point on the "main pipe" some distance away is 2º then we could infer a flow of one rate. If it was only 1º then the flow rate must be higher. Actual calibration could be done through experiment which might give you a reasonable feel for a comparative assessment of litres/minute
Brumby:
--- Quote from: Kim Christensen on August 21, 2023, 03:31:13 am ---It seems odd that knowing the time of day when massive hotwater usage occurs will identify the culprit. Because you probably already have that information and still can't figure it out:
... ... ...
But if you don't know the sequence, then how will knowing the times of temperature change help at all?
--- End quote ---
Determining the "sequence" as you put it is not a problem I have to solve. The householder has a means to determine that. This means can identify occupancy time of the bathroom, but not water usage.
--- Quote from: Kim Christensen on August 21, 2023, 03:31:13 am ---ie: If the sequence of people showering is A, B, C, D, E and C & maybe D are always complaining about cold water, then it follows that B is your problem.
--- End quote ---
A basic assumption - and very wrong.
Using your example, it could be A who is using the bulk of the hot water. B then comes in and uses a reasonable amount, unaware that the tank is now nearly bereft of hot water. C then tries to take a shower and complains when it runs cold. By producing a chart that showed A had the water running for 25 minutes and B only had it running for 6, the culprit would be somewhat more obvious.
By adding additional information (as I have outlined in principle) distinction could be made between one person who has the shower blasting like a pressure washer and another that has water falling like a soft summer rain.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version