General > General Technical Chat
WHO USED ALL THE HOT WATER!!! Need a simple temperature data logger ** UPDATE **
Brumby:
--- Quote from: Muttley Snickers on August 21, 2023, 03:02:26 am ---There is only one thing for it, you need to get evil on their arse. >:D
--- End quote ---
I think things got close to that yesterday...
Kim Christensen:
--- Quote from: Brumby on August 21, 2023, 04:33:59 am ---Determining the "sequence" as you put it is not a problem I have to solve. The householder has a means to determine that. This means can identify occupancy time of the bathroom, but not water usage.
--- End quote ---
So the householder knows who is in the bathroom and exactly when they enter and exit. Yet this same householder cannot tell if the water is running or not? Good luck with your project, but I doubt it'll provide much useful data beyond what could be gleaned by some intelligent observation.
Siwastaja:
Pipe temperature is a poor indicator. Even just washing your hands carefully with minuscule flow rate is enough to bring the pipe to the maximum temperature. Then it starts to cool slowly, during next 5-10 minutes or so, and you have no idea whether 0.1 or 10 liters was actually used.
The only idea you get is distinction between running the hot water for a short time (minutes) or long time (tens of minutes), but still no idea about the flow rate.
Brumby:
--- Quote from: Kim Christensen on August 21, 2023, 05:26:10 am ---So the householder knows who is in the bathroom and exactly when they enter and exit. Yet this same householder cannot tell if the water is running or not?
--- End quote ---
They have a security camera that covers a section of the hallway that must be traversed, so they can see who goes in and when. It does not listen for water.
--- Quote ---Good luck with your project, but I doubt it'll provide much useful data beyond what could be gleaned by some intelligent observation.
--- End quote ---
So your criticism comes from the unrealistic expectation that someone is always waiting and watching every day over the whole time someone might just use the bathroom. Geez - it's not like they might actually have other things to do, like going to work.
The combination of recorded image and data allows for post event review. If someone complains, then pull up the temperature data and check the camera footage for the times indicated.
Please consider the practical aspects of addressing a problem before being so dismissive.
Brumby:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 21, 2023, 05:30:35 am ---Pipe temperature is a poor indicator. Even just washing your hands carefully with minuscule flow rate is enough to bring the pipe to the maximum temperature. Then it starts to cool slowly, during next 5-10 minutes or so, and you have no idea whether 0.1 or 10 liters was actually used.
The only idea you get is distinction between running the hot water for a short time (minutes) or long time (tens of minutes), but still no idea about the flow rate.
--- End quote ---
Certainly pipe temperature isn't ideal - but it is extremely convenient.
There is a big difference in duration between washing hands and drawing a bath or taking a shower. That should be easy enough to spot. As for cooling "slowly" - I don't expect that would be too much of a problem. The temperature doesn't need to fall much to identify the fact it is starting to fall. Such a point will identify when the hot water was turned off - which is what is needed. Seeing the temperature continue to fall merely confirms this.
Also, the temperature of the water is going to fall as it heads to its destination. How much will depend on several factors, one of which is water flow. The more hot water that flows, the lower that temperature fall will be. This will require a degree of precision that may be challenging, but I have a couple of ideas that may help.
Certainly, I would expect that temperature profiles of known events will become familiar and that there will be a reasonable ability to identify unknown events because of this. The unknown is just how distinctive these characteristics may or may not be. However, I'll give it a try and we'll see.
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