Author Topic: New phone, new camer... holy crap.  (Read 8410 times)

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Offline XOIIO

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New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« on: May 15, 2016, 10:16:16 am »
So, I finally was able to upgrade from my shitty buggering horrific slow peice of arse iphone 4, to something modern, a motorola x play.

And, the camera on this thing rocks, I mean granted it's no proper camera, but it's the best camera I've ever had my hands on. 16 megapixel widescreen (which kind of sucks that it's not the full sensor, but for 4:3, it's 21 megapixel, and holy hell does it ever look good.


16


21




Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 12:27:13 pm »
That's a pretty crispy shot, looks like you're going to get a lot of use out of it!  :-+
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 01:29:32 pm »
I have a couple lg g4 and they also have really good cameras as well. Every bit as good as the apple ones.
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Offline XOIIO

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 01:52:20 pm »
That's a pretty crispy shot, looks like you're going to get a lot of use out of it!  :-+

Yeah, even zooming in massively it's still ridiculously sharp.

One big downside that has me really disappointed though, no gyroscope in this thing. It just seems ridiculous but I guess they decided not to include one for who knows what reason.

That rules out any 360 panoramas or vr stuff :/ There is a usb gyroscope with a bunch of other sensors that lists android as a compatible OS, but it's $67, so it would be a ways off, and I'd have to ask them if it would just work as a plug and play addition.

Offline XOIIO

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 02:58:30 pm »
Couple more. (second one is just zoomed in)



Offline Halcyon

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2016, 12:55:41 am »
I have a couple lg g4 and they also have really good cameras as well. Every bit as good as the apple ones.

+1 on the LG G4 camera. Amazing image quality for such a small sensor/lens. The plethora of manual controls is fantastic too.

In my opinion, I don't rate Apple iPhone cameras as being that special at all. Quite the opppsite actually, especially with the green/pink "haze" that appears when shooting something bright or very light coloured (like a sheet of paper). Apple consider it to be "normal" but it looks bloody awful.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2016, 01:07:59 am »
Interesting to note that here we have a 21 Megapixel camera which actually appears to have optics worthy of 21 Megapixels. Actually quite pleasing to see a camera launched with such good optics, when the majority of purchasers blindly pursue the Megapixel myth and thus we end up with 30 Megapixel sensors with gobs of barely shaped glass tacked in front...

In my opinion, I don't rate Apple iPhone cameras as being that special at all. Quite the opppsite actually, especially with the green/pink "haze" that appears when shooting something bright or very light coloured (like a sheet of paper). Apple consider it to be "normal" but it looks bloody awful.

Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2016, 01:23:23 am »
In my opinion, I don't rate Apple iPhone cameras as being that special at all. Quite the opppsite actually, especially with the green/pink "haze" that appears when shooting something bright or very light coloured (like a sheet of paper). Apple consider it to be "normal" but it looks bloody awful.

Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing

More like this... (not my photo, stolen off the interwebs)
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2016, 01:47:54 am »
In my opinion, I don't rate Apple iPhone cameras as being that special at all. Quite the opppsite actually, especially with the green/pink "haze" that appears when shooting something bright or very light coloured (like a sheet of paper). Apple consider it to be "normal" but it looks bloody awful.
This was an issue for very old models. I have an iPhone4 and I don't get the tinting.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2016, 04:04:26 am »
In my opinion, I don't rate Apple iPhone cameras as being that special at all. Quite the opppsite actually, especially with the green/pink "haze" that appears when shooting something bright or very light coloured (like a sheet of paper). Apple consider it to be "normal" but it looks bloody awful.
This was an issue for very old models. I have an iPhone4 and I don't get the tinting.

It was an issue even on newer models -- The above photo was taken on an iPhone 4 (this model was particularly bad for it). I just tried it with a colleague's iPhone 6 and it doesn't appear to be a problem anymore. Aside from that issue, I was never really "wow'd" by the iPhone camera. The Samsung's had fantastic cameras in them which were more capable than the iPhones of the era. Even the Sony Xperia's had 4K video recording years ago.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 04:10:49 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 04:08:10 am »
I have a plan to get an Iphone 3S/3GS to use as a PDA without any data plan
I have never had a smartphone because the plans are too damned expensive.

I am 14 and I am old.
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Offline Fsck

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2016, 04:19:27 am »
I have a plan to get an Iphone 3S/3GS to use as a PDA without any data plan
I have never had a smartphone because the plans are too damned expensive.

I am 14 and I am old.

I didn't get a cellphone until 7 years ago when I was 20... it was just a phone too, wouldn't really qualify as a smartphone. it only called and texted because apparently I needed to be reached when mobile.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 04:21:44 am by Fsck »
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Offline Ampera

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2016, 05:37:29 am »
I have a "Cellphone"
A cheap Walmart (ASDA/Tesco) phone that could call and do a couple other things.
I have it only to make and receive phone calls.
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Offline rs20

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2016, 06:13:08 am »
Why do so many EEVBlog threads turn into "I have a cheap non-smart phone!" "Me too!" "Me too!"?
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2016, 07:58:52 am »
Why do so many EEVBlog threads turn into "I have a cheap non-smart phone!" "Me too!" "Me too!"?

Probably because among the intelligent and educated, it's not seen as a status symbol, rather a sign of someone who doesn't fall into the Facebook/Instagram/Snapchat/Angry Birds group of users like today's brain dead youth who can't stand to be away from their "apps" (shudders at that term) for more than 20 minutes.

It's akin to reading a book as opposed to "Netflix and chill".

That's my take on it anyway ;-)

I would honestly still be using my Nokia 6230i if it supported 4G bands (so I could use it as a portable modem when I needed to) and it could run my various random number token and security applications I need. I loved having a small phone where it could live in my pocket alongside my keys without fear of cracking the display every time I bent over to pick something up and had a battery that lasted most of the week. Unfortunately to do what I need everyday, I rely on an Android handset with just the bare essentials installed.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 08:05:59 am by Halcyon »
 
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Offline rs20

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2016, 08:33:19 am »
It's akin to reading a book as opposed to "Netflix and chill".

I see where you're coming from, but consider where this analogy leads. Does it make sense to go onto a thread discussing details about netflix and just write "I read books"? Doesn't seem particularly productive, and depending on who reads it, it'll come across as desperate, meta-hipster, trolling, or simply Amish.
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 08:51:00 am »
It's akin to reading a book as opposed to "Netflix and chill".

I see where you're coming from, but consider where this analogy leads. Does it make sense to go onto a thread discussing details about netflix and just write "I read books"? Doesn't seem particularly productive, and depending on who reads it, it'll come across as desperate, meta-hipster, trolling, or simply Amish.

Take my comment with a grain of salt. I didn't mean that everyone who uses Facebook is an imbecile or those who watch Netflix are hipsters. But there are many more people who fit the stereotype than those that don't (that's why it's a stereotype) and it generally involves those who use the word "like" several times in a spoken sentence.

Nevertheless, I have my own way of expressing my thoughts which is far from "trollish" and I maintain that I got my opinion across, even you saw where I was coming from. ;-)

Personally, I can't think of a single instance where I would use the term "Netflix and chill" without poking fun at hipsters -- In English, it's called "Watching TV".
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 08:52:55 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 09:24:43 am »
In my opinion, I don't rate Apple iPhone cameras as being that special at all. Quite the opppsite actually, especially with the green/pink "haze" that appears when shooting something bright or very light coloured (like a sheet of paper). Apple consider it to be "normal" but it looks bloody awful.
This was an issue for very old models. I have an iPhone4 and I don't get the tinting.

It was an issue even on newer models -- The above photo was taken on an iPhone 4 (this model was particularly bad for it). I just tried it with a colleague's iPhone 6 and it doesn't appear to be a problem anymore. Aside from that issue, I was never really "wow'd" by the iPhone camera. The Samsung's had fantastic cameras in them which were more capable than the iPhones of the era. Even the Sony Xperia's had 4K video recording years ago.

yeah, the only way I was wowed by the iphone camera is when I mounted a DVD burner lens on the case to take some really small macro shots.

I need to try it with this camera sometime.

Offline dannyf

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2016, 10:02:19 am »
Quote
when I mounted a DVD burner lens on the case to take some really small macro shots.

A droplet of water (or vegetable oil) will do - though your angle is more limited.

I often just put a magnifying glass in front of it for macro shots.
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Offline XOIIO

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 02:19:51 pm »
Some more pictures, man, I've never been able to photograph anything like this before in my life. I forgot the vfd was a 5v unit and hooked it to 12, wires got red hot and I panicked, then it wasn't displaying the code I put in to test it but thankfully I just needed to reprogram the arduino, these things aren't cheap even now, and my only other good one is super dim.







Online Cerebus

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2016, 11:42:36 pm »
I'd already dug my camera out for a teardown and happened to read this. Just for comparison, a similar shot to the first one. This time an 11 year old 6 megapixel Nikon D70, cropped (not downsampled) to 1.5M pixels, i.e. 1/4 frame. Kinda shows what difference a good lens makes and quite how irrelevant megapixels are.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2016, 02:21:34 am »
I'd already dug my camera out for a teardown and happened to read this. Just for comparison, a similar shot to the first one. This time an 11 year old 6 megapixel Nikon D70, cropped (not downsampled) to 1.5M pixels, i.e. 1/4 frame. Kinda shows what difference a good lens makes and quite how irrelevant megapixels are.

Wow, I would never have guess that was a 6 megapixel camera.

How did apple get the 8mp one in the fourth gen iphone so wrong? lol

Online Cerebus

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2016, 10:17:37 am »
I'd already dug my camera out for a teardown and happened to read this. Just for comparison, a similar shot to the first one. This time an 11 year old 6 megapixel Nikon D70, cropped (not downsampled) to 1.5M pixels, i.e. 1/4 frame. Kinda shows what difference a good lens makes and quite how irrelevant megapixels are.

Wow, I would never have guess that was a 6 megapixel camera.

How did apple get the 8mp one in the fourth gen iphone so wrong? lol

As I say, beyond a certain point megapixels are irrelevant. The key is that was taken with a lens that is bigger and heavier than any smartphone I've ever seen and from Nikon's perspective that's a low-mid range lens. Remember that film camera technology was behind every semiconductor IC process until we started going under, oh say, 15 um feature size.
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2016, 11:02:46 am »
'Megapixels' is a term largely used for marketing purposes, but it's really not all that important. It's a bit like measuring power output from an audio system in PMPO instead of RMS. You need to take into account sensor sizes and sensitivity, lens quality, the capabilities of the image processor etc... etc... For the most part, people who buy phones for their cameras or even standard point-and-shoot cameras don't care (or understand) the relevance of any of that. Cnet wrote an article touching on it a few years ago: http://www.cnet.com/au/news/camera-megapixels-why-more-isnt-always-better-smartphones-unlocked/

There is a reason why very high quality lenses cost thousands of dollars (Canon have been known to push the boundaries of 'glass' with some mammoth lenses; One such lens is their 5200mm which weighs about 100KG and costs USD$50k).

I have a Canon 350D SLR (which is an 8MP camera) that is about 10 years old. Compared to my LG G4 phone (which has a 16MP rear camera), the Canon shits all over it in terms of image quality.

Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing phone cameras out there and to pack such technology into a small form factor is just brilliant, just don't believe the marketing. Just like you wouldn't buy a car and base its performance on the size of the engine and the number of cylinders; These days you can buy a 4-cyl Volvo which will out-run an Aussie V8.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 11:12:38 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline timb

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2016, 12:32:12 pm »
'Megapixels' is a term largely used for marketing purposes, but it's really not all that important. It's a bit like measuring power output from an audio system in PMPO instead of RMS. You need to take into account sensor sizes and sensitivity, lens quality, the capabilities of the image processor etc... etc... For the most part, people who buy phones for their cameras or even standard point-and-shoot cameras don't care (or understand) the relevance of any of that. Cnet wrote an article touching on it a few years ago: http://www.cnet.com/au/news/camera-megapixels-why-more-isnt-always-better-smartphones-unlocked/

There is a reason why very high quality lenses cost thousands of dollars (Canon have been known to push the boundaries of 'glass' with some mammoth lenses; One such lens is their 5200mm which weighs about 100KG and costs USD$50k).

I have a Canon 350D SLR (which is an 8MP camera) that is about 10 years old. Compared to my LG G4 phone (which has a 16MP rear camera), the Canon shits all over it in terms of image quality.

Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing phone cameras out there and to pack such technology into a small form factor is just brilliant, just don't believe the marketing. Just like you wouldn't buy a car and base its performance on the size of the engine and the number of cylinders; These days you can buy a 4-cyl Volvo which will out-run an Aussie V8.

The main advantage a DSLR has is glass (like you said). However, the other benefit is being able to shoot in RAW and do your own post processing.

There are various apps that let you do something similar with your phone as well. You see, the imaging interface software (which is part of the OS, sort of like a driver) does a lot of post-processing for you. If it's not done right, the images can look pretty terrible, even with a good lens and sensor. (That has been a particular problem on the Android side.)

So these apps will bypass (or disable) the automatic post-processing and spit out an uncompressed, high resolution TIFF (or Q100 JPEG) file. This way you can do your own processing and compression. It's not quite as good as working with a RAW file (which is literally the raw pixel data straight from the CCD), but being able to work with a lossless file is still nice. (Remember, every time you edit and re-save a normal JPEG, you're losing quality; just like copying video or audio from one magnetic tape to the next to the next.)

Well worth grabbing one of these apps if you're serious about taking good photos with your phone. (My Canon 40D is nice and all, but the best camera is the one you have on you!)

I use 645 PRO, GCam, ProCamera and Camera+ on iOS.
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2016, 07:09:34 am »
...
...
There is a reason why very high quality lenses cost thousands of dollars (Canon have been known to push the boundaries of 'glass' with some mammoth lenses; One such lens is their 5200mm which weighs about 100KG and costs USD$50k).
...
...

(Back in the analogy photo days) I've done a few years of amateur photography, and then a few years of professional photography with a year or so being a full time photographer.

I can't agree with you more.  External factors such as lighting aside, nothing controls the quality of the photograph more than the lens.

(So even while we moved on from analog...)  Looking at the size of the cell phone camera lens, I just have a hard time taking them seriously.  I sold most of my equipment from my photographer days.  I kept only my cheapest camera set.  The portrait lens (for head-shots) for that setup is an 85mm F1.8 lens.  That lens has 15 elements if I recalled right.  It alone weights over a pound and the front glass diameter is 47-48mm!  Looking at the phone with a 1mm-3mm lens diameter, I just have a hard time thinking of it as anything but a toy.

But, cell phone cameras are not exactly designed to make a model's portfolio photos.  Most of the photos it took wont even be printed, let alone be blown up to cover half the side of a bus.  With so most of the ads being on a web page these days, I suspect the quality requirements is rather different these days.  Expectations are probably also drastically different these days.  So, this is just an old dinosaur talking...
 

Offline rs20

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2016, 07:19:52 am »
But, cell phone cameras are not exactly designed to make a model's portfolio photos.  Most of the photos it took wont even be printed, let alone be blown up to cover half the side of a bus.  With so most of the ads being on a web page these days, I suspect the quality requirements is rather different these days.  Expectations are probably also drastically different these days.  So, this is just an old dinosaur talking...

When you consider that most cellphone photos just end up scaled to 1MP for temporary consumption on things like Facebook, the cellphone camera is perfectly suited to this particular task. But what amazes me is that people have stopped taking proper photos as a consequence.

To think that the typical child born today will have, in 10 years, vastly inferior quality photos available to see of themselves than a typical 10 year-old today -- that's hardly a crucially important thing, but I think it's telling of how short-sighted people can be.
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: New phone, new camer... holy crap.
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2016, 07:28:54 am »
But, cell phone cameras are not exactly designed to make a model's portfolio photos.  Most of the photos it took wont even be printed, let alone be blown up to cover half the side of a bus.  With so most of the ads being on a web page these days, I suspect the quality requirements is rather different these days.  Expectations are probably also drastically different these days.  So, this is just an old dinosaur talking...

When you consider that most cellphone photos just end up scaled to 1MP for temporary consumption on things like Facebook, the cellphone camera is perfectly suited to this particular task. But what amazes me is that people have stopped taking proper photos as a consequence.

To think that the typical child born today will have, in 10 years, vastly inferior quality photos available to see of themselves than a typical 10 year-old today -- that's hardly a crucially important thing, but I think it's telling of how short-sighted people can be.

Reminds me of this.



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