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MK14:

--- Quote from: Cubdriver on March 16, 2020, 07:10:15 pm ---It's not always the computer that fails.  It's often something else.  An unusual engine failure.  A totally unforeseen weather incident.  Fuel contamination.
You can't program a computer for all the things that can go wrong - there are just too many possibilities. -Pat

--- End quote ---

That is very true!
That is why a real human pilot, is reassuring and useful, in emergencies.


--- Quote from: Cubdriver on March 16, 2020, 07:10:15 pm ---Very few crashes are caused by the pilots.

--- End quote ---

I could be misunderstanding your post. I couldn't easily find a link, which detailed ONLY the mistakes the pilots made (Pilot Error), rather than also including all human error.

By vary few, do you mean 80% (Pilots + other humans making errors) ?


--- Quote ---In the early days of flight, approximately 80 percent of accidents were caused by the machine and 20�percent were caused by human error. Today that statistic has reversed. Approximately 80 percent of airplane accidents are due to human error (pilots, air traffic controllers, mechanics, etc.) and 20�percent are due to machine (equipment) failures.
--- End quote ---

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_2_07/article_03_2.html
Stray Electron:

--- Quote from: bd139 on March 15, 2020, 09:41:57 am ---
--- Quote from: TomS_ on March 15, 2020, 07:20:35 am ---
--- Quote from: MK14 on March 11, 2020, 04:56:08 am ---E.g. Rules insisting on having tyre pressure monitoring in cars, means each tyre sensor has a battery (4, one for each wheel), which can cost a small fortune, to get replaced, every e.g. 5 years.

--- End quote ---

Tyre pressure monitoring doesnt have to be done with active sensors in the wheels. It can also be done using existing sensors such as those used for ABS, although I have seen it done with some little doodad boxes that mount somewhere around the wheels.

--- End quote ---

The ones on my car use indirect TPMS ie by measuring relative axle rotation.  It does go loopy every 500 or so miles and tell you that you have a flat tyre but it worked very quickly when I did have one. Not much to go wrong on that!

--- End quote ---

   I have a vehicle that has the TPMS.  A new sensor cost me about $80. I've had to replace two of them so far. Installation was free since I waiting until the tires had to be replaced. If I lived in a state that had mandatory inspection then I would have had to have also paid to have the tire removed and installed (if they will even let you do that now) before it would pass inspection.  My TPMS only gives you a Go-No Go indication and not the actual tire pressure.  I've also found that on long trips, if it rains it will cause the system to indicate that it has a system failure. No one has any idea why. The circuits for the TPMS are built into the same CPU board that controls MOST of the electronic functions in the vehicle and it costs multi thousands of dollars to replace it. IMO these systems are of LITTLE practical use and as always, the politicians mandated them with no concern of what it would cost consumers. At the very least major functions such as the TPMS needs to be built on it's own board so that it can be accessed without taking the entire vehicle apart and it can be troubleshoot and replaced is necessary without having to replace thousands of dollars worth of other circuits.
SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 07:56:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on March 15, 2020, 09:41:57 am ---
--- Quote from: TomS_ on March 15, 2020, 07:20:35 am ---
--- Quote from: MK14 on March 11, 2020, 04:56:08 am ---E.g. Rules insisting on having tyre pressure monitoring in cars, means each tyre sensor has a battery (4, one for each wheel), which can cost a small fortune, to get replaced, every e.g. 5 years.

--- End quote ---

Tyre pressure monitoring doesnt have to be done with active sensors in the wheels. It can also be done using existing sensors such as those used for ABS, although I have seen it done with some little doodad boxes that mount somewhere around the wheels.

--- End quote ---

The ones on my car use indirect TPMS ie by measuring relative axle rotation.  It does go loopy every 500 or so miles and tell you that you have a flat tyre but it worked very quickly when I did have one. Not much to go wrong on that!

--- End quote ---

   I have a vehicle that has the TPMS.  A new sensor cost me about $80. I've had to replace two of them so far. Installation was free since I waiting until the tires had to be replaced. If I lived in a state that had mandatory inspection then I would have had to have also paid to have the tire removed and installed (if they will even let you do that now) before it would pass inspection.  My TPMS only gives you a Go-No Go indication and not the actual tire pressure.  I've also found that on long trips, if it rains it will cause the system to indicate that it has a system failure. No one has any idea why. The circuits for the TPMS are built into the same CPU board that controls MOST of the electronic functions in the vehicle and it costs multi thousands of dollars to replace it. IMO these systems are of LITTLE practical use and as always, the politicians mandated them with no concern of what it would cost consumers. At the very least major functions such as the TPMS needs to be built on it's own board so that it can be accessed without taking the entire vehicle apart and it can be troubleshoot and replaced is necessary without having to replace thousands of dollars worth of other circuits.

--- End quote ---


TPMS is a good idea and solves a real problem -  it just doesn't seem to be "done right" yet.
Cubdriver:

--- Quote from: MK14 on March 16, 2020, 07:31:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cubdriver on March 16, 2020, 07:10:15 pm ---Very few crashes are caused by the pilots.

--- End quote ---

By vary few, do you mean 80% (Pilots + other humans making errors) ?


--- Quote ---In the early days of flight, approximately 80 percent of accidents were caused by the machine and 20�percent were caused by human error. Today that statistic has reversed. Approximately 80 percent of airplane accidents are due to human error (pilots, air traffic controllers, mechanics, etc.) and 20�percent are due to machine (equipment) failures.
--- End quote ---

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_2_07/article_03_2.html

--- End quote ---

I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of FATAL crashes.  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airlines-safety/major-commercial-plane-crash-deaths-worldwide-fell-by-more-than-50-in-2019-group-idUSKBN1Z0242  (86 accidents, with 8 of them fatals.)

Let me change tack a little - do you think an on-board computer system could have gotten the passenger planes in the incidents in the videos I've linked to in earlier replies down as safely and with as little loss of life as the pilots involved did?  Remember - those were not caused by pilot error, but by other, external things.  They were failures that could easily have caused the planes to crash with NO survivors, and potentially a lot of collateral damage and death on the ground when they hit - New York City, for instance, and only creative thinking on the spot and very skilled hands and minds prevented that.  Think someone could program a computer to do what Captain Sullenberger did in getting the Airbus glider down into the Hudson River?  The Qantas A380 pilots with the grenaded engine that took out many of the computer's sensors?  Or Al Haynes in Sioux City?  The latter crew were literally making things up as they went along, as the scenario they found themselves in had never been thought possible so no procedures had been developed for it.

Could a computer handle routine stuff?  Yeah, at this point, it probably could.  It's when stuff goes off into the weeds that the pilots earn their money, and are worth every penny they make and more.

I still want a human brain up front.  Certainly those flying for the major carriers have excellent safety records.

-Pat
Stray Electron:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on March 16, 2020, 08:12:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 07:56:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on March 15, 2020, 09:41:57 am ---
--- Quote from: TomS_ on March 15, 2020, 07:20:35 am ---
--- Quote from: MK14 on March 11, 2020, 04:56:08 am ---E.g. Rules insisting on having tyre pressure monitoring in cars, means each tyre sensor has a battery (4, one for each wheel), which can cost a small fortune, to get replaced, every e.g. 5 years.

--- End quote ---

Tyre pressure monitoring doesnt have to be done with active sensors in the wheels. It can also be done using existing sensors such as those used for ABS, although I have seen it done with some little doodad boxes that mount somewhere around the wheels.

--- End quote ---

The ones on my car use indirect TPMS ie by measuring relative axle rotation.  It does go loopy every 500 or so miles and tell you that you have a flat tyre but it worked very quickly when I did have one. Not much to go wrong on that!

--- End quote ---

   I have a vehicle that has the TPMS.  A new sensor cost me about $80. I've had to replace two of them so far. Installation was free since I waiting until the tires had to be replaced. If I lived in a state that had mandatory inspection then I would have had to have also paid to have the tire removed and installed (if they will even let you do that now) before it would pass inspection.  My TPMS only gives you a Go-No Go indication and not the actual tire pressure.  I've also found that on long trips, if it rains it will cause the system to indicate that it has a system failure. No one has any idea why. The circuits for the TPMS are built into the same CPU board that controls MOST of the electronic functions in the vehicle and it costs multi thousands of dollars to replace it. IMO these systems are of LITTLE practical use and as always, the politicians mandated them with no concern of what it would cost consumers. At the very least major functions such as the TPMS needs to be built on it's own board so that it can be accessed without taking the entire vehicle apart and it can be troubleshoot and replaced is necessary without having to replace thousands of dollars worth of other circuits.

--- End quote ---


TPMS is a good idea and solves a real problem -  it just doesn't seem to be "done right" yet.

--- End quote ---

   TPMS is just one more system that allows lazy ignorant people to ignore basic maintenance. Those never end well, the more you cover up for stupidity and laziness, the more stupid and lazy people become.
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