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New UK plan "could spell end of throwaway culture" (BBC News)
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MK14:

--- Quote from: Cubdriver on March 16, 2020, 08:42:23 pm ---I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of FATAL crashes.  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airlines-safety/major-commercial-plane-crash-deaths-worldwide-fell-by-more-than-50-in-2019-group-idUSKBN1Z0242  (86 accidents, with 8 of them fatals.)

Let me change tack a little - do you think an on-board computer system could have gotten the passenger planes in the incidents in the videos I've linked to in earlier replies down as safely and with as little loss of life as the pilots involved did?  Remember - those were not caused by pilot error, but by other, external things.  They were failures that could easily have caused the planes to crash with NO survivors, and potentially a lot of collateral damage and death on the ground when they hit - New York City, for instance, and only creative thinking on the spot and very skilled hands and minds prevented that.  Think someone could program a computer to do what Captain Sullenberger did in getting the Airbus glider down into the Hudson River?  The Qantas A380 pilots with the grenaded engine that took out many of the computer's sensors?  Or Al Haynes in Sioux City?  The latter crew were literally making things up as they went along, as the scenario they found themselves in had never been thought possible so no procedures had been developed for it.

Could a computer handle routine stuff?  Yeah, at this point, it probably could.  It's when stuff goes off into the weeds that the pilots earn their money, and are worth every penny they make and more.

I still want a human brain up front.  Certainly those flying for the major carriers have excellent safety records.

-Pat

--- End quote ---

I've tidied up my original post, to make it clearer.

I didn't look at the videos, because I've already seen many videos like that, and am well aware, that pilots have often done an amazing job.
I completely agree with you. Pilots, have often done an amazing job, at saving aircraft. Which have been badly damaged, by all sorts of things, such as an engine mechanical failure, causing it to catch on fire and stop working.

I need to differentiate between, pilots who do amazing work, saving aircraft, that have got into difficulties for an amazingly wide range of reasons, and pure Pilot Error, causing the aircraft to crash, in the first place.

Things like pilots who let their children take control, the plane then unfortunately crashed (Russian).
Pilots who run out of fuel (their human error, e.g. mixed up between Gallons and ibs or Kilograms etc, putting the wrong amount of fuel into the plane).
Pilots who are drunk or fall asleep.
Pilots who, due to the mechanical failure on the left hand engine, accidentally (human error), switch off the working right hand engine.

It's tricky. On the one hand pilots can be very useful in an emergency. But on the other hand, pilot error, sometimes leads to tragedy. Sadly, you can't have one, without the other.
Zucca:
Enjoy the discussion,

I even saw a system based on RFID so trigger impulse on LF  and respond on HF.

It is possible to get enough energy to send the pressure values with a piezo in the tires.
The problem was to get all the tires OEM to agree to stick that sensor on the surface and to guarantee it will not fall down on with all the rubber compound.

Also the tire change situation would be a mess for our customers, they must only buy tires compatible with the sensor on it.
I even saw tires with a pocket to hold the sensors in place, but everytime somebody asked:"what if the nail pierce the sensors?"

I had so many nice ideas, but all of them were crushed in the industrialization process. Frustrating.

that's why a not run flat tires, with indirect TPMS and some regular pressure check interval is the best of the best.

PS: I do not know in UK, but the gas stations in USA are absolutely the worst to get tires correctly inflated. 
SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 08:49:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on March 16, 2020, 08:12:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 07:56:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on March 15, 2020, 09:41:57 am ---
--- Quote from: TomS_ on March 15, 2020, 07:20:35 am ---
--- Quote from: MK14 on March 11, 2020, 04:56:08 am ---E.g. Rules insisting on having tyre pressure monitoring in cars, means each tyre sensor has a battery (4, one for each wheel), which can cost a small fortune, to get replaced, every e.g. 5 years.

--- End quote ---

Tyre pressure monitoring doesnt have to be done with active sensors in the wheels. It can also be done using existing sensors such as those used for ABS, although I have seen it done with some little doodad boxes that mount somewhere around the wheels.

--- End quote ---

The ones on my car use indirect TPMS ie by measuring relative axle rotation.  It does go loopy every 500 or so miles and tell you that you have a flat tyre but it worked very quickly when I did have one. Not much to go wrong on that!

--- End quote ---

   I have a vehicle that has the TPMS.  A new sensor cost me about $80. I've had to replace two of them so far. Installation was free since I waiting until the tires had to be replaced. If I lived in a state that had mandatory inspection then I would have had to have also paid to have the tire removed and installed (if they will even let you do that now) before it would pass inspection.  My TPMS only gives you a Go-No Go indication and not the actual tire pressure.  I've also found that on long trips, if it rains it will cause the system to indicate that it has a system failure. No one has any idea why. The circuits for the TPMS are built into the same CPU board that controls MOST of the electronic functions in the vehicle and it costs multi thousands of dollars to replace it. IMO these systems are of LITTLE practical use and as always, the politicians mandated them with no concern of what it would cost consumers. At the very least major functions such as the TPMS needs to be built on it's own board so that it can be accessed without taking the entire vehicle apart and it can be troubleshoot and replaced is necessary without having to replace thousands of dollars worth of other circuits.

--- End quote ---


TPMS is a good idea and solves a real problem -  it just doesn't seem to be "done right" yet.

--- End quote ---

   TPMS is just one more system that allows lazy ignorant people to ignore basic maintenance. Those never end well, the more you cover up for stupidity and laziness, the more stupid and lazy people become.

--- End quote ---

Do you feel the same about oil pressure warning lights, temperature gauges, etc.?  -  Personally, I find the tire pressure information useful...   if I could have the tire pressures displayed on the dash, I'd take it...  as long as it doesn't add a $100 per year running cost! 
SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Zucca on March 16, 2020, 10:28:28 pm ---Enjoy the discussion,

I even saw a system based on RFID so trigger impulse on LF  and respond on HF.

It is possible to get enough energy to send the pressure values with a piezo in the tires.
The problem was to get all the tires OEM to agree to stick that sensor on the surface and to guarantee it will not fall down on with all the rubber compound.

Also the tire change situation would be a mess for our customers, they must only buy tires compatible with the sensor on it.
I even saw tires with a pocket to hold the sensors in place, but everytime somebody asked:"what if the nail pierce the sensors?"

I had so many nice ideas, but all of them were crushed in the industrialization process. Frustrating.

that's why a not run flat tires, with indirect TPMS and some regular pressure check interval is the best of the best.

PS: I do not know in UK, but the gas stations in USA are absolutely the worst to get tires correctly inflated.

--- End quote ---

Why not have a piezo with a small weight attached, sitting in the rim itself?  Vibrations would charge a supercap or something...   Putting them in the tire seems a potentially bad idea for all the reasons you gave, and then some.

Gas station tire pressure:  you should have a gauge with you in the car, that way any gas station will work fine!

MK14:

--- Quote from: Zucca on March 16, 2020, 10:28:28 pm ---Enjoy the discussion,

I even saw a system based on RFID so trigger impulse on LF  and respond on HF.

It is possible to get enough energy to send the pressure values with a piezo in the tires.
The problem was to get all the tires OEM to agree to stick that sensor on the surface and to guarantee it will not fall down on with all the rubber compound.

Also the tire change situation would be a mess for our customers, they must only buy tires compatible with the sensor on it.
I even saw tires with a pocket to hold the sensors in place, but everytime somebody asked:"what if the nail pierce the sensors?"

I had so many nice ideas, but all of them were crushed in the industrialization process. Frustrating.

that's why a not run flat tires, with indirect TPMS and some regular pressure check interval is the best of the best.

PS: I do not know in UK, but the gas stations in USA are absolutely the worst to get tires correctly inflated.

--- End quote ---

I understand. There are all sorts of real life practicalities, which stop all sorts of clever ideas. Being implemented on cars.
It must be an extremely tough environment, being inside a car tyre. I dread to think of the vibrations/shocks/temperatures/pressures/contamination/chemicals/etc.

You then have to meet so many, sometimes contradictory requirements.
You have limited or very little influence/control/detailed-information on anything, outside of the device you are actually designing/supplying.
Whatever you do, has to be approved by the customer, who may say no, and/or give you various requirements.

The parts you ideally want, may be too expensive/unreliable or unavailable in the desired timescales.
You have to listen to all the current and upcoming regulations.
Other team members or bosses, may disagree or not allow, the proposed method/solution.

Then there are budget limits and cost targets and stuff.
It might simply be that it is a good idea/method, but would take too long to develop and/or be too risky (of it not working or being accurate/reliable enough).
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