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New UK plan "could spell end of throwaway culture" (BBC News)
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MK14:

--- Quote from: blueskull on March 13, 2020, 05:34:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: MK14 on March 13, 2020, 01:32:46 pm ---Yet with other things. E.g. LED lights, they are happy to buy a 'get 2 for a $1 pack'. Then, complain when it doesn't last the 35,000+ hours it says on the pack.

--- End quote ---

Some 3.5W teeny tiny ones in China, right from an electronics market (i.e. not with distributors' margin) are ~$1. My parents' house has 21 of them installed 3 years ago, and so far they are all working fine.

If you expect something like a larger 11W unit for $0.5, in a country outside China, from a retail store, then you know what you are getting.

--- End quote ---

That makes sense. LEDs have been dropping in price a lot, over the years.
Maybe my example was not the best.

A better example, could have been a $0.10 screwdriver. These typically, bend the shaft with the slightest load, and the tip bends/breaks, with the slightest resistance from a screw. Then the handle falls off.
SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: james_s on March 13, 2020, 05:52:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on March 13, 2020, 02:45:17 am ---
You can still get station wagons...  but they are taller, and are called "crossovers"!

--- End quote ---

A crossover is no more a station wagon than a spork is a spoon. A crossover is a one size fits all compromise, it looks vaguely like an SUV, vaguely like a station wagon, vaguely like a hatchback, vaguely like a minivan, etc but it is none of these things. They are somehow taller without offering any more ground clearance or interior volume, I don't even know where all the space goes. I find them all hideously ugly and could never bring myself to own one. I have hauled a sofa in the back of my Volvo 740 that would not fit in my friend's Toyota crossover, and I have hauled plywood and lumber using a clamp on roof rack, the car is low enough that I can easily load and unload without needing to stand on a ladder. The boxy shape is ideal for maximizing internal volume vs external footprint, there's a reason that boxes are box-shaped.

--- End quote ---

The Honda Odyssey is a pretty good load carrier, they have an amazing 4' by 8' cargo area when the seats are out...
MK14:

--- Quote from: james_s on March 13, 2020, 05:45:21 pm ---I'm not so sure that it's significant. Large tower computers are filled mostly with air, and much of the other mass is cheap and easily recycled steel and other metals. The modern super compact PCs have a large portion of their volume consumed by PCBs and silicon, and I suspect the difference in total volume of material that is not easily recycled is minimal. Another factor worth considering, when PCs were still being upgraded regularly I would often replace only some of the components, I kept the same tower case for more than a decade. The mini PCs are far more proprietary, they are essentially disposable, when one breaks you throw the whole thing out.

--- End quote ---

I agree mini PCs, are unsuitable for much upgrading (future proofing), beyond some RAM and/or SSD upgrades.
They seem a lot lighter, which makes me think they use less materials, but you have raised some good points, about the extra recyclability of desktops.

They also tend to use a lot less electricity, compared to their older, desktop cousins. Which is another way, they can be saving the planet.

But I agree, they not only are somewhat disposable. But may be replaced, rather than repaired or upgraded, a lot sooner than desktop PCs. Further complicating their recycling green credentials.

I guess this discussion/thread, shows how difficult it is. To know the best way of saving the planet.
tooki:

--- Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 12, 2020, 05:20:09 pm ---For example, not too long ago, the phone in my pocket had a sliding battery cover which was trivial to remove. The battery was clipped into place and could be easily swapped out with no technical skill whatsoever. Nowadays almost every phone on the market has an integral battery which cannot be replaced without special tools and a risk of permanent damage to the phone - and there's no good reason for them to be made that way.

--- End quote ---
There are three I can think of right off the bat:

One, which frankly isn't relevant to most people, but is critical to some*, is size and weight: a battery compartment adds thickness and weight, since another layer of separation must be provided between the user-facing battery compartment and the innards.

Second, watertightness. It is exceedingly difficult to make a watertight battery compartment. (Even more so if it needs to be thin and light.) It's vastly easier to seal the entire device. A strong argument can be made that by making phones watertight, you prevent a ton of e-waste, on account of all the prevented device drownings.

Third, battery safety. With modern battery energy densities, battery failure can be catastrophic. By sealing the batteries inside, manufacturers dramatically reduce the chance that an aftermarket battery of unknown quality is installed. Additionally, and arguably more importantly, it completely eliminates the chance of somebody carrying spare batteries with them in an unsafe manner. Now, I'm not insinuating that most aftermarket batteries are unsafe, or that most people who'd carry a spare battery would go up in flames. But it's also absolutely guaranteed that it would increase the number of incidents. Both from a public safety standpoint as well as from a corporate liability standpoint, I completely understand why companies have moved to sealed-in batteries.


*More with laptops than phones, but if someone has a physical limitation that makes weight an issue, the added weight of a thicker, more serviceable laptop might be prohibitive.
AndyC_772:
My phone+case is already between 2 and 3 times as thick as the phone itself; thinness as a figure of merit has become silly. An extra mm or two to accommodate the thickness of a battery cover would be perfectly fine with me, I don't think I'd even notice.

The number of early deaths due to water ingress through the battery compartment would have to be weighed against the number saved by being (easily) opened and dried straight away. If you can't make a phone competely water tight - and most aren't - the next best thing you can do is make it trivial to remove the battery, open the case, and dry out the PCB immediately. This is something that's possible with a product designed for serviceability, but if your laptop or phone is glued together, forget it.

I don't doubt that manufacturers would cry "safety" if compelled to make batteries removable, but that's a reason to come up with a safer form factor for the battery, not to continue designing in obsolescence. If batteries for laptops and power tools can have embedded contacts that are protected from accidental contact, so can phones.
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