General > General Technical Chat
New UK plan "could spell end of throwaway culture" (BBC News)
MK14:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on March 14, 2020, 11:43:39 pm ---Yes, you're right. People have made all sorts or incorrect predictions about the future before and have later been proven wrong.
Most of the things you've listed above were doubted because people didn't believe they were technically possible or lacked understanding of physics. I don't doubt for a second it's possible for a computer to drive a car much safer and more efficiently than a human. The reason why I'm so cynical about driverless cars is because there are other areas where automation is much simpler, trains for example, yet it hasn't happened for various reasons, which seem irrational. Insurance and litigation are the two things which stand out at the moment. What happens when your driverless car is involved in a fatal accident which is its fault? Who goes to prison? Tesla have only gotten away with it because they say the human driver should pay attention.
Of course it might happen, but I'm doubtful it'll be in my lifetime. I wish I was wrong, because I don't like driving and think automation would make the road a safer place. The same way, I really wish they would fully automate the rail network because it would make trains much more reliable and cheaper..
--- End quote ---
Good point. But something like the railways, can get relatively slow/long time scales. Unlike general public cars, which might be changed every 3 years. The trains may only change in a big way, every 20 to 50 years (I don't know, what the time period is, exactly).
Because they spend millions, buying the new train stock. Then keep using it for 10, 20, 30, 40 or more years. until it is replaced.
I imagine, self driving cars, may start out in one small part of America. Maybe with the driver having to sit in the drivers seat and watch the precedings. If that works out. It could get rolled out in other parts of America, and other countries could start following suit.
If not the US, then another country(s).
As you said, Tesla, have already been rolling out autonomous self driving cars, sorry, I mean Tesla autopilot.
As regards making the roads safer. Although computers won't drink and drive, take drugs or speed just for the fun of it. I still think that they will still have accidents. Just that those accidents will be different.
E.g. The Tesla autopilots, have had various accidents. Because of misinterpreting things, etc.
Another example is 'self driving'/autopilot jet airplanes. Which has been going on for a long time now. Where some percentage, maybe 99% of the time. the autopilot, effectively flies the plane.
Because as you will know. We still have plenty of aircraft crashing, despite these systems.
E.g. Boeing 737max, whose autopilot mode (although there is more to it, as it was not really the autopilots fault, the MCAS system and its sensors), was not exactly safe to leave it like that, unoccupied.
unknownparticle:
Walking more and driving less is all very laudable but for many it just impractical. I live in the countryside and it's 1.5 miles to the nearest A road, and the road to reach that point has no footpath. It's then a further 7 miles to the nearest supermarket. So, assuming I would be willing to risk my life on a regular basis to go food shopping (the only physical shopping I ever do now), and further assuming I could maintain a brisk walking pace, it would take me about 2 hours each way, actually more, because on the return journey I would be carrying about 10 to 15 KG of shopping! I just don't have the time! And don't even mention buses, there are 3 per day in my area, 1 morning, 1 mid day, 1 evening!! And very often they are cancelled with no notice.
This is the problem with all this drive less mantra, it's fine if you live in a city, but a non starter for those that live in areas with poor infrastructure. One thing that could be done to alleviate traffic congestion would be to change school starting times so they don't conflict with work hours.
Then there is the question why?! Climate change, the climate is always changing, nothing we can do about it. Notice it is now called climate change, not man made climate change, funny that! Humanity is not affecting the climate in any significant way, it's all a scam.
In 50 years when the whole scamming nonsense is eventually exposed there will be alot of very angry people!
CatalinaWOW:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on March 14, 2020, 11:43:39 pm ---
Yes, you're right. People have made all sorts or incorrect predictions about the future before and have later been proven wrong.
Most of the things you've listed above were doubted because people didn't believe they were technically possible or lacked understanding of physics. I don't doubt for a second it's possible for a computer to drive a car much safer and more efficiently than a human. The reason why I'm so cynical about driverless cars is because there are other areas where automation is much simpler, trains for example, yet it hasn't happened for various reasons, which seem irrational. Insurance and litigation are the two things which stand out at the moment. What happens when your driverless car is involved in a fatal accident which is its fault? Who goes to prison? Tesla have only gotten away with it because they say the human driver should pay attention.
Of course it might happen, but I'm doubtful it'll be in my lifetime. I wish I was wrong, because I don't like driving and think automation would make the road a safer place. The same way, I really wish they would fully automate the rail network because it would make trains much more reliable and cheaper.
--- End quote ---
Sometimes the path to these things is tortuous. Automated trains have taken a long time to implement for a variety of reasons. One is the publicity associated with bad implementations. The TRAAM system at the Dallas-Ft. Worth American Airlines terminals in the 70s-80s is a horrible example. A simple low speed road train on a completely closed track (no pedestrian crossings, vehicles, or any similar hazards). And the control system was horrid. Jerky. Prone to stopping or speeding up for unfathomable reasons. And with some weird half-interval approach to the stations. Who would want more of that?
But recently legal issues are pushing more automation in trains. Accidents which have at their source the operator paying attention to the cell phone or under the influence of drugs have resulted in trials where the question is asked "Are automated systems available?". "Well, yes." Followed by: "Could they have prevented this accident? and Why weren't they installed or in use?". Liability is resulting from the lack of automation.
SilverSolder:
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 15, 2020, 12:37:27 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on March 14, 2020, 11:43:39 pm ---
Yes, you're right. People have made all sorts or incorrect predictions about the future before and have later been proven wrong.
Most of the things you've listed above were doubted because people didn't believe they were technically possible or lacked understanding of physics. I don't doubt for a second it's possible for a computer to drive a car much safer and more efficiently than a human. The reason why I'm so cynical about driverless cars is because there are other areas where automation is much simpler, trains for example, yet it hasn't happened for various reasons, which seem irrational. Insurance and litigation are the two things which stand out at the moment. What happens when your driverless car is involved in a fatal accident which is its fault? Who goes to prison? Tesla have only gotten away with it because they say the human driver should pay attention.
Of course it might happen, but I'm doubtful it'll be in my lifetime. I wish I was wrong, because I don't like driving and think automation would make the road a safer place. The same way, I really wish they would fully automate the rail network because it would make trains much more reliable and cheaper.
--- End quote ---
Sometimes the path to these things is tortuous. Automated trains have taken a long time to implement for a variety of reasons. One is the publicity associated with bad implementations. The TRAAM system at the Dallas-Ft. Worth American Airlines terminals in the 70s-80s is a horrible example. A simple low speed road train on a completely closed track (no pedestrian crossings, vehicles, or any similar hazards). And the control system was horrid. Jerky. Prone to stopping or speeding up for unfathomable reasons. And with some weird half-interval approach to the stations. Who would want more of that?
But recently legal issues are pushing more automation in trains. Accidents which have at their source the operator paying attention to the cell phone or under the influence of drugs have resulted in trials where the question is asked "Are automated systems available?". "Well, yes." Followed by: "Could they have prevented this accident? and Why weren't they installed or in use?". Liability is resulting from the lack of automation.
--- End quote ---
Copenhagen has a completely automated train system (Metro). Works very well.
TomS_:
--- Quote from: MK14 on March 11, 2020, 04:56:08 am ---E.g. Rules insisting on having tyre pressure monitoring in cars, means each tyre sensor has a battery (4, one for each wheel), which can cost a small fortune, to get replaced, every e.g. 5 years.
--- End quote ---
Tyre pressure monitoring doesnt have to be done with active sensors in the wheels. It can also be done using existing sensors such as those used for ABS, although I have seen it done with some little doodad boxes that mount somewhere around the wheels.
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