General > General Technical Chat
New work computers (tech refresh), a conversation looking for ideas
jpyeron:
We used to get high end (6-8k$ budget) laptops for each engineer. But recently laptops have been underperforming and in conflict with our requirements (e.g. no more actual sleep so they melt or die in transit).
Most of our engineers create VMs. Some use various graphics intensive software (Autodesk, kicad, Adobe Premiere, etc.)
This is a screenshot from the previous laptop refresh , it has 2 4TB SSD, but at reboot I am already using about 32G ram, and several times this month I ran out of ram.
So my new thought is, since our laptops have an always on VPN anyways, to split the workstation in 2.
Something like Latitude 9440 2-in-1 for 3k$, leaving another 3k$ for a desktop that is much more powerful than a laptop can ever be. But the last time I designed such a system Computer Shopper was 1.5" thick and in tabloid format.
Note some things require Windows, but I think the desktop could run Linux.
Ideas?
jonpaul:
Lunix will choke on a lot of business apps and files.
Not for the novice users in an office.
We had HP Elitedesk an ProDesk WS, very reliable and flexible for WS use. $200..800
After HP, Dell went to China junk parts, we migrated to Asus laptop Zenbook (fails dead screens) and finally Lenovo Carbon X1, preferred by pro road warriors.
$1..2K
j
jpyeron:
--- Quote from: jonpaul on January 21, 2024, 03:56:10 pm ---Lunix will choke on a lot of business apps and files.
Not for the novice users in an office.
--- End quote ---
These are not for novices. ;D But, that is why they will have a windows laptop too.
--- Quote from: jonpaul on January 21, 2024, 03:56:10 pm ---We had HP Elitedesk an ProDesk WS, very reliable and flexible for WS use. $200..800
--- End quote ---
Looking at the HP Elite Tower 600 G9 PC, maxed out at 128GB ram and 16 cores - not really impressive for 3k$
Was hoping to get closer to 32 cores and 256GB ram for the desktop paired with the lower end laptop (e.g. Latitude 9440 10 core, 32GB ram
audiotubes:
For the price you mentioned, and if you need a laptop specifically, I can recommend Eurocomm. I have their Tornado F5W which at the time was the fastest laptop you could get. Some of the things to like about their laptops are that in most cases you get a socketed CPU so when this year's latest and greatest is no longer fast enough, you can make the change (as long as nextgen CPU has the same socket). They have good cooling, nVidia graphic cards etc, a fair bit of expansion (for example in my laptop, 3 disk drives). Mine has an i7777K but you can even get Xeons.
I work for a large company, we get high end Dells for work. They cost a lot of money and are not very good values, especially compared to the Eurocomm units. We get 32G and it's enough for use but things are getting worse and more would be better for a lot of people. For me it's mostly about how many PDF manuals I can have open at one time. Usually 10-20 depending on the day.
Now that Windows has WSL (pretty much a real Linux running inside Windows) I feel the need to throw my Windows boxes off the side of a mountain much less. It's pretty ok. You can run quite a lot of Linux apps perfectly fine, some run even better than the Windows version. For example Visual Studio Code can be installed from inside WSL Linux and it is then available in Windows as well. I don't write code that runs on PCs but some of my coworkers do, and they work pretty much exclusively from inside WSL all day long.
I kindof agree with @jonpaul that Linux as a desktop is not yet a good solution in the grand scheme of things. Really depends on your company and requirements. If you guys are writing cross platform code then Windows with WSL is a very good option. If it's just apps, then it depends if your apps run on Windows, Linux, or both. And also how much of an IT department you have and what they will support.
As I'm typing I saw you mentioned towers. I have a G9 Business PC and didn't like it much. I bought a Lenovo Ryzen 7 Pro which I like a lot better. Anyway, look into small office servers, you often get a lot more for your money and they make perfectly good desktops. Most of them nowadays have onboard graphics in case that helps, and they have ECC RAM and Xeons etc. for less than a so-called tower desktop. I have Fujitsu and Dell office servers, I prefer the Fujitsu which is really well thought out with disk trays that are easy to deal with and other internal niceties.
jpyeron:
I struggle at communications, so I will try to explain differently.
Our current old, out of warranty, laptops are 16 Core, 64GB ram, with 2x 4TB storage. They don't do a good job of meeting our needs.
I am thinking about issuing 2 devices to each engineer - a modest laptop and a super desktop. In aggregate it should still be within the typical 6-8k$ budget.
I am assuming that Laptops are going to continue to diverge on the usefulness vs cost factors. E.g. 1, cannot commute from home to work without loosing my work since Windows and modern hardware only do hybrid sleep now. 2, we are trying to do more than is reasonable on a laptop - I have many VMs.
I remember in 2006, we gave poweredge servers to each engineer at their desk. (fatal flaw - noise)
I think we can spend 2-3k$ on a laptop that we can standardize across the Company, and provide the engineers with a second machine for the heavy workloads. That laptop would be the "interface" to their "server" at their desk.
I guess I would be wrong on my "no laptop solution exists" assumption; if for 8k$ we could get a laptop with 128-256G of ram, that actually sleeps, has ~32 cores, with a next business day support plan.
--- Quote from: audiotubes on January 21, 2024, 04:30:00 pm ---For the price you mentioned, and if you need a laptop specifically, I can recommend Eurocomm. I have their Tornado F5W
--- End quote ---
Lower specs than what is currently issued to my engineers.
--- Quote from: audiotubes on January 21, 2024, 04:30:00 pm ---I work for a large company, we get high end Dells for work. They cost a lot of money and are not very good values, especially compared to the Eurocomm units. We get 32G and it's enough
--- End quote ---
I own a small company - and we have been getting higher end Dells.
--- Quote from: audiotubes on January 21, 2024, 04:30:00 pm ---Now that Windows has WSL
--- End quote ---
A strongly worded "meh" - it has lots of issues playing nice, most of the time VMWare Workstation is a better solution, especially since WSL 2.
--- Quote from: audiotubes on January 21, 2024, 04:30:00 pm ---Lenovo Ryzen 7 Pro ... Fujitsu ... Dell office servers.
--- End quote ---
Worried about noise when buigin servers, and the "commercial" desktop solution seem to max out on the low end of specs. Again, this is why I am in a similar situation to https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/vd1igl/developer_workstation_that_needs_32_cores_and/
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