Author Topic: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website  (Read 77577 times)

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Offline fourfathom

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2023, 04:56:54 pm »
Seriously, replace "black" with "Jewish" and you'd have something not out of line with what would be said under the Nazis.

And replace "Black" with "white" and you'd have something not out of line with what has been said by tenured professors of CRT-type subjects and many media talking-heads.  But of course that's different.

Godwin's law?

FWIW, I agree that Adams' publishers have every right to sever their relationship.  And I agree that Adams was stupid to say what he said (unless it was all deliberate).  But I also suggest that anyone who is interested in this event should look at Adams' comments in their full context -- then form an opinion.
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Online magic

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2023, 04:59:20 pm »
I think he just wanted to retire and decided to do so by getting himself cancelled. Good on him.
Either that, or he's just an idiot.
Either that, or he's just tired.
 
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Offline HuronKing

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2023, 05:00:57 pm »
Peak Dilbert was when the TV show was on the air. Two seasons of wry comedy by Larry Charles (staff writer for Seinfeld) collaborating with Adams.

Since then, Scott Adams is a peddler of anti-intellectualism and deep down has entitled POS ideas. There's this gem from 2011:

Quote
The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It's just easier this way for everyone. You don't argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn't eat candy for dinner. You don't punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don't argue when a women tells you she's only making 80 cents to your dollar. It's the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles.

I realize I might take some heat for lumping women, children and the mentally handicapped in the same group. So I want to be perfectly clear. I'm not saying women are similar to either group. I'm saying that a man's best strategy for dealing with each group is disturbingly similar. If he's smart, he takes the path of least resistance most of the time, which involves considering the emotional realities of other people. A man only digs in for a good fight on the few issues that matter to him, and for which he has some chance of winning. This is a strategy that men are uniquely suited for because, on average, we genuinely don't care about 90% of what is happening around us.

So, he wasn't suggesting that women actually deserve equal pay for equal work... he just doesn't think its an issue worth fighting women over... as if it would be something you'd fight with women over if you had the energy to fight over it...

The dude is an asshole. The sooner he stops acting like a representative of 'rational, engineer thinking' (which he has postured himself as for years), the better.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 05:02:48 pm by HuronKing »
 
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Offline tom66

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2023, 05:05:53 pm »
Seriously, replace "black" with "Jewish" and you'd have something not out of line with what would be said under the Nazis.

And replace "Black" with "white" and you'd have something not out of line with what has been said by tenured professors of CRT-type subjects and many media talking-heads.  But of course that's different.

Yeah, and those media talking heads and professors are wrong - but it doesn't mean that Adams gets a free pass.

I'm aware I referenced Godwin's law, but it's difficult to avoid in these circumstances.

Edit: error
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 05:10:02 pm by tom66 »
 
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Online magic

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2023, 05:12:26 pm »
Since then, Scott Adams is a peddler of anti-intellectualism and deep down has entitled POS ideas.
What "intellectualism" even is today? All I see in the West is politics masquerading as science and education.
Whoever has more money to throw at this shit or more minions to mobilize, wins all.
You guys are back to square one.
 
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Online tszaboo

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2023, 05:12:57 pm »
Old white guy says stupid old white guy thing.  And faces the consequences. 

Seriously, replace "black" with "Jewish" and you'd have something not out of line with what would be said under the Nazis.  Utterly unacceptable.  History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure as hell rhymes.

I've never really enjoyed Dilbert so I guess I won't miss it slowly fading off, though I suspect that Adams will still have followers and revenue from other streams for some time and I'll be he'll be fine in his pseudo-retirement.
Just to feel the double standards, do the same with your post. Invert the color, I dare you.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2023, 05:13:37 pm »
Since then, Scott Adams is a peddler of anti-intellectualism and deep down has entitled POS ideas. There's this gem from 2011:

Quote
The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It's just easier this way for everyone. You don't argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn't eat candy for dinner. You don't punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don't argue when a women tells you she's only making 80 cents to your dollar. It's the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles.

I realize I might take some heat for lumping women, children and the mentally handicapped in the same group. So I want to be perfectly clear. I'm not saying women are similar to either group. I'm saying that a man's best strategy for dealing with each group is disturbingly similar. If he's smart, he takes the path of least resistance most of the time, which involves considering the emotional realities of other people. A man only digs in for a good fight on the few issues that matter to him, and for which he has some chance of winning. This is a strategy that men are uniquely suited for because, on average, we genuinely don't care about 90% of what is happening around us.

And nobody comes up with the idea that the above is just a look in the mirror of how society works? Or at least a significant portion of it? Dilbert is all about ridiculing office / software developer life. Within that context I see the text above as ridiculing society.

Actually I see a lot of parallels with 'woke people' that deal with other people pretty much in the way as described above...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 05:17:03 pm by nctnico »
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Online coppercone2

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2023, 05:17:06 pm »
the only part I found amusing about dilbert was the greed / tradition problems in corporate engineering interactions, like how they suck at allocating resources and deciding how to handle a project
 
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Offline Sal Ammoniac

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2023, 05:22:52 pm »
What "intellectualism" even is today? All I see in the West is politics masquerading as science and education.
Whoever has more money to throw at this shit or more minions to mobilize, wins all.
You guys are back to square one.

There are three areas in the U.S. where politics is intruding on science and education, and this is happening because the actual science doesn't agree with the worldview of the "anti-intellectuals": vaccines, evolution, and anthropocentric global warming.
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2023, 05:25:49 pm »
So, when Rasmussen reveals that 47% of black Americans do not consider it okay to be white, that is not a problem;
Sorry Nominal Animal, but I think you are being naïve here.
Could be.  Also, my command of the English language does not include interpreting the subtext other people may or will read into that phrase.
(I am aware of the various uses the phrase has had, and its origins at 4chan, but I do not know their effect on people in general.  I do not follow social media.)

I did watch his video, and while I considered him kinda stupid, definitely frustrated, I didn't really see him as racist or truly bigoted (in their traditional definitions prior to year 2010 or so).  I do not know his output, nor have I read his other writings or videos, except for the Dilbert comic.  Some of the pointy-haired-boss and marketing-department and general workplace interactions are apt: they used to be taped to the doors of many an engineer and scientist I know.

What I did see, is a situation analogous to e.g. Jordan Peterson (also a flawed person) being called alt-right for trying to help young people find their way into traditional adulthood; analogous to how my own opinions and attitude are generally classified as "transphobic racist" here in Finland now.

I admit, much of my attitude is borne out of frustration.  As I've discussed before, social cues others perceive clearly are hard for me to discern.  Things like ethnicity and even gender are not obvious to me, and I just do not pay attention to such details because I do not care about such details: they have no value to me in the interaction I have with the other person.  And I do place high value in human-human interaction.  This is not a choice on my part, this is how my brain works.  (It is why I tend to use "they" in English.  The hardest thing to me in Swedish and German is the gender of words.)
Yet, it is now generally accepted to be 'proof' that I am racist and transphobic, at least here in Finland!

It is illogical, irrational, and most of all, unfair.

In other words, perhaps I am projecting my own deep-seated feelings of being treated unfairly with regards to the issue here, placing myself in Scott Adams' stead.

All I can say is that the reactions towards him do not seem logical or rational to me at all; only purely emotive, mobbish, deindividualized.

To evaluate that claim of mine, consider the same statements if made by a black person, or a devout Muslim.

It is my belief that as a true egalitarian, I must not let the ethnic or religious background affect my reaction or understanding of the message or claims.  Such details only provide background information as to why that person might construct such statements, and do not affect the veracity or reliability of such statements at all.

As such, I do believe this is a topic many engineers and scientists –– anyone thing-oriented rather than socially-oriented –– will encounter, as the general Western society turns away from logic and rationality into emotive assessment of statements, effects, statistics, and persons.  You too will someday be me, or Scott Adams, if you talk to anyone you don't know, or Dog Forbid, make a video where you talk about anything topical.

Here in Finland, when a statistic shows something unfavorable to the prevalent political/social narrative, the immediate action is to stop collecting that data and publishing the statistic.  It has become ridiculously predictable whenever unpleasant data is uncovered in the last ten years or so.  Do expect it to happen in your legislations too, because it seems to be quite effective, and basically nobody seems to object.
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2023, 05:30:59 pm »
So, he wasn't suggesting that women actually deserve equal pay for equal work... he just doesn't think its an issue worth fighting women over... as if it would be something you'd fight with women over if you had the energy to fight over it...

In general though, this is a very difficult area, and something that is hard to discuss rationally.

For example, why is the US Congress mostly filled with old white males? Because a very large number of women vote for them. Women have the vote, and represent about 50% of the electorate. If women as a group wished to have better representation, and wished to see more women in the House and Senate, they could seriously influence this. But for complex reasons it doesn't happen.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2023, 05:36:10 pm »
While we are on the subject of, Scott Adams.

There seems to be differences of opinion, as to if he was an actual (job function) engineer or not, when he was working for employers, before he became famous.

There is agreement, he worked with actual engineers, but not if he (job functionality wise) was one himself.

Who cares what he did? He nailed so many aspects of the corporate culture, the comic is funny because it resonates. I don't think it matters what actual engineering qualifications he has or had.
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2023, 05:40:10 pm »
Who cares what he did? He nailed so many aspects of the corporate culture, the comic is funny because it resonates. I don't think it matters what actual engineering qualifications he has or had.

It's interesting, because.

If they are considered an engineer, that means that engineers (at least one), can create entertaining/funny comics and things.

But if they are NOT considered an engineer.  It means that a non-engineer, can have the insight/capabilities, to interestingly pick up on engineers, how they think and things like that.

So, either way, it is interesting to know.

EDIT: I've poorly written this response.  I didn't mean all engineers lack humor.
I more meant that someone who has created a wealth of $65,000,000, has become relatively famous, has sold a number of successful books, comics, (TV) animated cartoon series, and maybe other stuff.  Has clearly been successful, as regards comedy/humor.
That is more like, what I meant.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 06:30:14 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2023, 05:40:27 pm »
I definitely don't want or need to be represented by a misogynist, racist and pretentious asshole.

You're saying Dilbert is a misogynist, racist and pretentious asshole? Or are you somebody that has difficulty separating art from the artist?

One of my other interests is music. A lot of musicians are jerks, idiots and generally people I wouldn't want to associate with. That is totally irrelevant in terms of me enjoying the music they create. I don't care, at all.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2023, 05:42:48 pm »
It's interesting, because.

If they are considered an engineer, that means that engineers (at least one), can create entertaining/funny comics and things.

But if they are NOT considered an engineer.  It means that a non-engineer, can have the insight/capabilities, to interestingly pick up on engineers, how they think and things like that.

So, either way, it is interesting to know.

But he's not an engineer anymore, or for a long time even if he was, he's a comic artists. What makes someone an engineer? A degree in engineering? Experience doing engineering work? The mindset and thought process? I would argue it's mostly the latter in this case. Also of course engineers can create entertaining/funny things. I've worked with many engineers that had a great sense of humor.
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2023, 05:47:24 pm »
I don't see how Dilbert is any different to any other form of media, fashion trend, design, or colour etc... One could argue The Simpsons has outstayed its welcome*.

They lost inspiration after series 12. Fight me.



I'm all for sharing an opinion, particularly a popular one... but is it even vaguely relevant to EEVblog?

Arguably, it pertains to the conflict between engineering and all the many and varied branches of administration (HR, accounting, design, marketing) in any given company that makes things, real or virtual.
I'd say that fits well enough into the General Technical Chat section.



Cancel culture is poison to free speech; I'd rather debate with someone as to why I think they are wrong. Of course, it isn't always possible, but everyone (in context) is free to not read the Dilbert cartoon. I don't read it as a rule, though what I have seen has been moderately apt and amusing, never met the author or read what he's said, so couldn't say whether he's a dick or not.
I have read quite a bit of Roald Dahl's work, and quite a bit about his life, and can confirm he could be a dick. However as a child when I read them I never took people with bent or crooked noses in his books to be Jewish; they were just people with bent or crooked noses, to me. Only as an adult have I been informed as to this association. YMMV   :-//
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Offline HuronKing

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2023, 05:47:51 pm »
So, he wasn't suggesting that women actually deserve equal pay for equal work... he just doesn't think its an issue worth fighting women over... as if it would be something you'd fight with women over if you had the energy to fight over it...

In general though, this is a very difficult area, and something that is hard to discuss rationally.

For example, why is the US Congress mostly filled with old white males? Because a very large number of women vote for them. Women have the vote, and represent about 50% of the electorate. If women as a group wished to have better representation, and wished to see more women in the House and Senate, they could seriously influence this. But for complex reasons it doesn't happen.

I've had similar conversations about this with people who are acolytes of Jordan Peterson or similar - who make the argument that women "just aren't interested in science" or "just don't care about politics" as much as the manly men.

This whole opinion is predicated on ignoring that women, in the USA, were disallowed the right to vote until 1920. It also ignores that women weren't even allowed to participate in academic science until the early-mid 20th century.
For example, the first women undergraduates from CalTech didn't graduate until 1973:
https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/forty-five-years-their-graduation-three-caltechs-first-female-bs-recipients-look-back-81687#:~:text=In%20June%201973%2C%20Stephanie%20Charles,engineering%2C%20technology%2C%20or%20medicine.

And they were admitted only because the university president, Harold Brown, fought hard to allow women in 1970:
https://www.aiche.org/resources/publications/cep/2019/january/caltech-6-americas-first-and-only-all-female-class-ches#:~:text=In%201891%2C%20Caltech%20was%20founded,at%20the%20time%2C%20Harold%20Brown.

So... DUUUUHHHH that our (American) institutions of power are populated entirely with a majority of a particular demographic. The people who occupied those institutions of power made it ILLEGAL for anyone else to participate for centuries.

The various waves of feminist movements are doing what you suggest to try to seriously influence a change. It takes time - and honestly, it also requires waiting for the old bigots to die off.

Max Planck said something similar that has always interested me even if I think he's a bit hyperbolic:
Quote
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

The first women admitted to Harvard on equal basis to men didn't happen until 1913:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/centennial-women/#:~:text=Harvard%20University's%20first%20credentialed%20woman,for%20Health%20Officers%20in%201917.&text=In%201936%2C%20HSPH%20became%20the,to%20grant%20degrees%20to%20women.

Demographically speaking, and depending on how old you are... our parents/grandparents were the first generations of people in the West to even be ALLOWED entry to higher institutions on the basis of their abilities and not whether or not they had a penis...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 05:50:07 pm by HuronKing »
 
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Online Siwastaja

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2023, 05:48:19 pm »
So, when Rasmussen reveals that 47% of black Americans do not consider it okay to be white

A nitpick - the actual number was 26% (because "I don't know" does not mean "it is not okay"). Basically 26% of people proudly admitted being racists. On the other hand, one cannot blame every single one of them - people often answer to questions based on what they think they are expected to answer.

It's still an alarmingly big number, so your point is valid. I don't subscribe to the idea of having "good" or "bad" kind of racism based on exact set of races, either. Racism is just racism, and any racial group can be racist against any racial group (I wrote "other" first, but one can be racist against their own group, as well!).
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2023, 05:49:33 pm »
“using public electronic communications network in order to cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety”

Yikes, that's actually the law? That's rather terrifying, there are very few people that couldn't be charged with that in some capacity. A law against something like openly inciting violence or repeatedly harassing someone is reasonable, but causing them annoyance?? This sort of thing makes me all the more thankful to live somewhere where we at least ostensibly have a constitutionally protected right to free speech.
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2023, 05:55:39 pm »
I believe that psychological studies have shown that people tend to migrate towards information sources that align with beliefs they already espouse.

That Fox News is the #1 rated 'news' service in the US proves that to me.  That recent leaks reveal they prioritized viewership ($) over facts is likewise unsurprising.
CNN and MSNBC don't appear to be any better.
Of course, the bigger issue is that Rasmussen polling is pretty much right wing biased to begin with.
No doubt, a left-wing poll would produce an even stronger anti-white result.

Some might find Dilbert's strips to be funny (I disagree), but in this time and age it's truly difficult to keep separate an author and their work.
Why not? Shall we just dump everything which someone with "bad opinions" helped to create? Sounds crazy to me.

Old white guy says stupid old white guy thing.  And faces the consequences. 

Seriously, replace "black" with "Jewish" and you'd have something not out of line with what would be said under the Nazis.  Utterly unacceptable.  History doesn't repeat itself, but it sure as hell rhymes.

I've never really enjoyed Dilbert so I guess I won't miss it slowly fading off, though I suspect that Adams will still have followers and revenue from other streams for some time and I'll be he'll be fine in his pseudo-retirement.
Stupid black people say that kind of shit about white people all the time, without any consequence.

No matter what tint of glasses you look through, the U.S. remains a society where racism and misogyny is deeply ingrained. Adams seems to be someone who wears his opinions on his sleeve and amplifies it with his podcast.
Racism against whites and Asians is far more of a problem in the US, than any other kind of racism. Misogyny is still a problem, but misandry is too.
 
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Offline tom66

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2023, 05:56:34 pm »
“using public electronic communications network in order to cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety”

Yikes, that's actually the law? That's rather terrifying, there are very few people that couldn't be charged with that in some capacity. A law against something like openly inciting violence or repeatedly harassing someone is reasonable, but causing them annoyance?? This sort of thing makes me all the more thankful to live somewhere where we at least ostensibly have a constitutionally protected right to free speech.

It's a terrible law, because it's so easy to misinterpret.  The basis for the law was one to prevent cyber-bullying and internet harrassment, and it was warned at the time that it was a dangerous precedent to set, but it still happened, because you've "got to protect those innocent children".  See also:  Internet safety bill in the UK.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2023, 05:59:12 pm »
Old white guy says stupid old white guy thing.  And faces the consequences. 

If somebody said "Old black guy says stupid old black guy thing. And faces the consequences" would you consider that racist? I would. Hint, it makes no difference what race is used in the statement, it's racist, period.
 
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Offline tom66

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2023, 06:12:11 pm »
Old white guy says stupid old white guy thing.  And faces the consequences. 

If somebody said "Old black guy says stupid old black guy thing. And faces the consequences" would you consider that racist? I would. Hint, it makes no difference what race is used in the statement, it's racist, period.

I completely agree.  Racism of all kinds (and I do not accept this attitude that "black people can't be racist towards white people") should be extinguished.  Hence why I don't like what Adams had to say, because I think it was racist.
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2023, 06:23:52 pm »
Old white guy says stupid old white guy thing.  And faces the consequences. 

If somebody said "Old black guy says stupid old black guy thing. And faces the consequences" would you consider that racist? I would. Hint, it makes no difference what race is used in the statement, it's racist, period.
I just did and don't care if I get called racist. There are obviously plenty of stupid black people, same as there are many stupid, white, Asian, Mexican, Middle Eastern etc. people.

Old white guy says stupid old white guy thing.  And faces the consequences. 

If somebody said "Old black guy says stupid old black guy thing. And faces the consequences" would you consider that racist? I would. Hint, it makes no difference what race is used in the statement, it's racist, period.

I completely agree.  Racism of all kinds (and I do not accept this attitude that "black people can't be racist towards white people") should be extinguished.  Hence why I don't like what Adams had to say, because I think it was racist.
Unfortunately the idea black people can't be racist, is very well supported by many on the left, including some teachers. It's one of the pillars of critical race theory.

I actually don't think Adams is necessarily racist. It's open to interpretation whether he meant all black people are a hate group, or just those who don't think being white is okay are a hate group. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt, although I admit I could be wrong in this case.
 
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Re: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2023, 06:26:03 pm »
I did watch his video, and while I considered him kinda stupid, definitely frustrated, I didn't really see him as racist or truly bigoted (in their traditional definitions prior to year 2010 or so).
Yes, you are missing the context. American liberals have been "race blind" for half a century and it isn't having much of the promised effect. I spent 3 months interning in California and it was laughable how big the contrast between Hollywood movies and reality is. Americans experience this dissonance through their whole lives. Simply put, if you don't believe that the system is still unfair and there is work to be actively done, you might as well be for re-segregation, because the long term outcome of your policy is anticipated by them to be the same.

American population is a meaningless clump of cells held together by the duct tape of idealistic egalitarianism. Remove the duct tape and they will be at each others' throats immediately. Fail to reapply the tape where it tears, you might as well take your AR-15 and start shooting random people on the street. Ultimate outcome will be the same. Tangentially, that's why I advocate for just nuking that failed colony with no survivors - still same outcome, but less drama along the way.

Other than that, I think I must belong to the 90% of men that Adams said don't give a fuck about what's happening to others. Not my circus, not my monkeys, they are sleeping in a bed they have made themselves. Don't pay attention to them or you will go nuts. Ban Twitter and Hollywood in the EU.

Or, if you like watching things burn,
 :popcorn:
 


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