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Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website

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Kim Christensen:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 08:42:03 am ---This whole thing that "cancelling" and "wokism" would be a thing in our country are so strange and new concepts to me, that I'm sometimes flabbergasted. Must be living under a rock...

--- End quote ---

The problem is social media... I don't mean forums like this one, but ones like Facebook that use algorithms to customize what the user sees.
These algorithms will feed you info that engages you. So if something makes you angry, and you comment on it, the Facebook algorithm will feed you more of the same. Soon you start to believe that the entire world has gone crazy because of what you're seeing on social media. But it's all an illusion.
The problem comes when people start acting out in the real world based upon what they believe is happening in their own personalized "social media reality"...

james_s:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 08:42:03 am ---I would not like to step into this tar pit, but I must live in some kind of bubble where I don't see this. Of course, I live in a Swedish speaking area where many people, if we must define political scale, are more kind of progressive social liberal, maybe mostly centerists. But there are definitely people in politics spanning from left to right on the scale here. About this "small mob", I haven't seen this picture that you paint of it in media. Or my experience is that most people surrounding me are progressive and liberal, so I don't see this type of message as "mobbish". Locally here, there is a marginal group of conservative, mostly religious people spreading conspiracy theories about vaccines, 5G killing people, NATO is bad, Trump will save our souls etc. that also behave like Putin supporters. The last thing is so definitely condemned by the majority in this country and the group is so small that I don't see this as a big issue. This whole thing that "cancelling" and "wokism" would be a thing in our country are so strange and new concepts to me, that I'm sometimes flabbergasted. Must be living under a rock...

--- End quote ---

Are you active on Twitter? Do you attend or work at a university? Are you a public figure? If none of these then you are considerably less likely to find yourself the target of the cancel mob.

james_s:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 12:30:05 pm ---Why in the world would you have to "speak out against a really hot button topic like for example trans activists" unless you specifically work in this area or have been harassed or something?

--- End quote ---

The definition of "speak out" can be rather loose. In some cases just questioning something they say, making a casual comment or being associated with someone who does. There are people with a hair trigger just looking around for something to be outraged or offended over.

Zero999:
Going back to the original topic.

There's a range of views about what Scott said and what, if any consequences he should face:

* Scott said something extremely racist and deserves to lose everything.
* What he said was a little bit racist, but he shouldn't have to lose his source of income.
* I don't think he said anything too bad, even though I disagree with most of it. He certainly doesn't deserve any repercussions.
* Scott said nothing wrong. He was right and doesn't deserve to be cancelled.
* He is definitely right and he is the victim of racism. It wouldn't have been as bad for him, had he been black.Regarding cancel culture in general. The subject is complex and somewhat nuanced. Would you to employ someone who is genuinely racist? If not then, why? If so, then why? My own personal view is, it depends on the job. If the role involves working with others, especially if they're in a position of power, then no. On the other hand, if they're working on their own, then yes, it wouldn't bother me, so long as they don't have a problem with my ethnicity of course. Also note that everyone has their prejudices and biases. I remember not too long ago, those who refused to have a certain injection were subject to discrimination and still are in some jurisdictions. It's questionable whether doctors and nurses, who are extremely pro-prick to the point of believing those who've not had it, should be denied care, should be allowed to treat patients.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 08:42:03 am ---I would not like to step into this tar pit, but I must live in some kind of bubble where I don't see this. Of course, I live in a Swedish speaking area where many people, if we must define political scale, are more kind of progressive social liberal, maybe mostly centerists.
--- End quote ---
Indeed.  Hbl (the largest Swedish-speaking newspaper in Finland) is one of the less biased newspapers here, and my former Swedish-speaking colleagues at the Uni tended to have very similar views to myself.

You most likely live outside the metropolitan Helsinki-Espoo-Vantaa region, or outside the largest cities; and do not read Helsingin Sanomat, or watch or listen to Finnish-speaking news.  Here in Helsinki, the police doesn't even investigate things like storage burglaries, because their time is taken with more important things, like hate speech on the net.  Perhaps you agree with such priorities, but fact is, it reduces the cohesion and feeling of security in the population.  Perhaps that is exactly why they decided to stop recording and publishing statistics on how secure people actually do feel?

Ordinary working Finns do not see what is happening, because they only get one view from their news, and the majority just wants to live their lives in peace, and not fight about politics, until it bites them in the ass.


--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 08:42:03 am ---About this "small mob", I haven't seen this picture that you paint of it in media. Or my experience is that most people surrounding me are progressive and liberal, so I don't see this type of message as "mobbish".
--- End quote ---
Really?  You don't remember Li Andersson claiming that leftist violence is different?  You forgot the new law that states anyone can change their gender once a year simply by reporting it?  Or how very recently a highschooler got absolutely railroaded on Twitter, because he dared ask a Finnish gender expert at UN headquarters if she could define a woman?  Or how Misha Dillinger (a leftist activist) gets to issue direct death threats with police deeming it not worthy of investigation, but when someone else quotes the bible, they're dragged in court five times?  That our own government has declared itself intersectional, even though it is clearly in opposition to our constitution, which states that everyone is equal in front of the law –– not that every group is entitled to equal outcomes.  Or how our government promised to shorten the immigration proceedings to those who come to Finland to work, but failed (it's still two months, twice the targeted "within one month"); and instead have spent countless hours to try and make it possible for illegal immigrants to stay in Finland living off social security with no requirements to work, unlike Finnish citizens.  By insisting on calling illegal immigrants just immigrants, they can say that anybody against letting illegal immigrants are against immigration –– which none of the parties in the parliament currently are, not even True Finns –– and avoid discussing the entire matter.

Hell, our PM recently declared all supporters of True Finns, about 20% of voters, as racists, and basically no reporter put her to task about that.  For one, there are quite a few different ethnicities within that party, and they're against illegal immigration, not legal immigration.  No reaction, even if it is clear case of defamation (incitement for hatred against a group based on their political views, very illegal in Finland).  While I don't agree with many of their goals, at least they are trying to fix things locally here in Finland, before trying to be a "model for the rest of the world to follow" like the other parties say is most important.

When you go with the flow, you see things as quiet and comfortable, even though you're part of a raging torrent.


--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 08:42:03 am ---Locally here, there is a marginal group of conservative, mostly religious people spreading conspiracy theories about vaccines, 5G killing people, NATO is bad, Trump will save our souls etc. that also behave like Putin supporters.
--- End quote ---
They are nutjobs, really.  That is why it is so effective to just claim anybody who disagrees with you, one.

I've been called all those, several times, and I'm definitely not any of those, dammit!


--- Quote from: JohanH on March 09, 2023, 08:42:03 am ---This whole thing that "cancelling" and "wokism" would be a thing in our country are so strange and new concepts to me, that I'm sometimes flabbergasted. Must be living under a rock...
--- End quote ---
Go visit your nearest university, and see what happens if you talk with someone in the cafeteria about how to define a woman, now that it is simply a matter of self-reporting in Finland.  Or anything against the prevailing Twitter ideology, really.  In particular, go visit the faculty of educational sciences (pedagogiska fakulteten) in Helsinki or Tampere, to see the world the students, and your kids (or grandkids) teachers live in, and ask honest questions about the effects of inclusivity and multiculturalism in the classroom, and how they hope to fix the issues (and get Finnish PISA scores back up).

Do not be surprised when someone in alert colors yells at you and throws something at you, because in their view, you are a monster, defined so by the questions you ask.

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