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Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website

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JohanH:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on March 10, 2023, 10:43:41 am ---Why?
I'm serious, I'm asking it in the very philosophical sense, why? There will be always be people who are the last. They picked some arbitrary measure and that's the most important today. You can pick infinite different criteria, and the outcome will be different. You can pick IQ. Shall we have equal outcome for IQ? Hire board members from the bottom 5% of the distribution and force companies to do so? How about baldness? Or height? Or people with a stub toe? Or brown haired woman? People not living in the capital? How about fixing gender disparity on offshore oilrigs? Why not me, I'm from abroad, why am I not a CTO yet? Do we really want to reward someone based on their birth characteristics instead of their effort, merit and talent?
We put it into law, everyone is equal, discrimination isn't allowed. And then they flip it, and they call it progress.
I cannot wait, when 20 years from now we will be -ist, because we weren't picking some other characteristics that is the most important at that time. Or hopefully we move past woke by then. They are cancelling dead people, because they didn't follow the today's trend. There is now trigger warning placed on Shakespeare, because apparently he wasn't progressive enough. And we are burning books again. Did we learn nothing?

--- End quote ---

It sounds like you are exaggerating a lot of confusing things. Like someone is triggered by a lot of hyped up things spread by social media. Whereas things to be demanded is basic human rights as per the UN declaration. For instance rights for women are still not equal everywhere, even though it has been fought for, for a very long time.

coppice:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 10, 2023, 09:25:53 am ---I might be wrong in my statement. That doesn't change the fact that many minority groups are suppressed/live in worse conditions than majority/whatever. To improve their conditions, it doesn't help to show to them that on paper, they have equal rights. So society needs to do something to help them. That's not wrong in my opinion. But all of this is outside my expertise, so I'd rather not comment on it further.

--- End quote ---
No society really knows how to help people. Society is a complex dynamic system, and any engineer should realise that a system like that is impossible to analyse effectively. Engineers should be very conservative in their outlook, as they realise there are only a few ways to improve something, a myriad ways to screw it up more, and its hard to know which camp any change will fall in without long term evaluation. That said, so much of what passes for "help" is clearly harming people. Things like affirmative action as practised in the US, for example. There is an honest form of affirmative action. You try to identify capable people held back by their circumstances. You provide resources, like summer schools, to help them catch up to others of their capability. Then those people can run with their peers. Then there is the US system. Take people scoring poorly; don't look at the individual's capabilities or circumstances; feed them into things they are unprepared for, without an effective means to catch up; watch them fail. From figures I've seen there are a lot of people from minority groups in the US saddled with college debt for degrees they could never complete, due to this kind of mismatch. Having no degree they have a poor chance of achieving the kind of income needed to pay off that debt.

tszaboo:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 10, 2023, 11:26:53 am ---It sounds like you are exaggerating a lot of confusing things. Like someone is triggered by a lot of hyped up things spread by social media. Whereas things to be demanded is basic human rights as per the UN declaration. For instance rights for women are still not equal everywhere, even though it has been fought for, for a very long time.

--- End quote ---
Hence, I wrote it as a philosophical question.
"women are still not equal everywhere" surely you are not talking about Europe or the West in general. So what is your suggestion, let's go around like Bush senior, and try to export our values abroad, because that worked out fine the last time.
By the way, if we are talking about basic human rights, what happened to "International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination". All. Positive, negative. This was 1965, they were smarter than today.

--- Quote from: coppice on March 10, 2023, 11:35:02 am ---Then there is the US system. Take people scoring poorly; don't look at the individual's capabilities or circumstances; feed them into things they are unprepared for, without an effective means to catch up; watch them fail.
--- End quote ---

Or even worse, where the most of stimulation package ended up with people overdosing on their choice of sedative.

mod: Johan, you are probably right, I've worked myself up in the past few days. Kinda reached my breaking point where I had enough bs.
Im giving myself a timeout.

JohanH:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on March 10, 2023, 11:56:09 am ---
"women are still not equal everywhere" surely you are not talking about Europe or the West in general.

--- End quote ---

I am. Even though the Nordic countries top statistics in equality and lot of other things, Finland is still one of Europe's most dangerous countries when it comes to violence against women from people in close relationships. This is statistics from the government (Finnish and Swedish only) https://valtioneuvosto.fi/-/10616/lahisuhdevakivalta-aiheuttaa-tutkimuksen-mukaan-merkittavasti-kustannuksia-terveys-sosiaali-ja-oikeuspalveluissa Every other woman has experienced violence in a relationship and 15-30 women die yearly due to violence in a relationship.
This is only one example.

Zero999:

--- Quote from: JohanH on March 10, 2023, 11:26:53 am ---For instance rights for women are still not equal everywhere, even though it has been fought for, for a very long time.
--- End quote ---
What do you mean by women?


--- Quote from: JohanH on March 10, 2023, 12:15:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on March 10, 2023, 11:56:09 am ---
"women are still not equal everywhere" surely you are not talking about Europe or the West in general.

--- End quote ---

I am. Even though the Nordic countries top statistics in equality and lot of other things, Finland is still one of Europe's most dangerous countries when it comes to violence against women from people in close relationships. This is statistics from the government (Finnish and Swedish only) https://valtioneuvosto.fi/-/10616/lahisuhdevakivalta-aiheuttaa-tutkimuksen-mukaan-merkittavasti-kustannuksia-terveys-sosiaali-ja-oikeuspalveluissa Every other woman has experienced violence in a relationship and 15-30 women die yearly due to violence in a relationship.
This is only one example.

--- End quote ---
So what, women are not equal? We know that. There are innate differences between the sexes, which have nothing to do with society and law.

The statistics you cite, don't prove women, don't have equal rights to men, just they are more likely to be killed by men. This is because men are physically stronger than women and have higher testosterone levels, making them more prone to violent behaviour. By the same logic, you could argue men are subjugated by women, as they have a shorter life expectancy than women. Perhaps the healthcare system discriminates against men, who are much more likely to die from SARS-Cov-2 infection. 

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