Author Topic: Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website  (Read 108954 times)

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Offline james_s

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"I question whether a law banning X should exist."
~ "I don't think a law banning X should exist."
I vehemently disagree.

The verb question can be understood in either neutral way, "to interrogate, to ask for information", or in a negative way, "to raise/have doubts about".  Neither of them equates to an assertion.  Therefore, your approximation is incorrect.

In other words,

"I question whether a law banning X should exist."
~ "I would like to know whether a law banning X should exist." / "I have doubts whether a law banning X should exist."

See?

Edit: In particular, note the interrogative in both interpretations.

I'm really thinking at this point that the people that cannot make this distinction are "binary thinkers" that view things as absolutes. Questioning or having doubts about something is literally the same as thinking it is wrong/bad because there is no gray area whatsoever for them, everything is either good or bad, right or wrong, liberal or conservative. I have a really difficult time grasping this way of thinking because to me virtually everything is some shade of gray, there are almost no absolutes outside of textbook concepts but it certainly seems that many people do perceive the world in this way.
 

Offline EEVblog

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However, I don't think cancel culture could be fought against by concentrating on the cancel mob. They are beyond salvation, and finally, they have freedom of speech, too. The solution is to stop giving way to the extortion tactics. For example, trust your employees and your own set of rules and don't fire them only because someone asked you to. The actual dirty work is always done by people who do not support the cancel mob or cancel culture, out of stupidity, laziness, fear, or combination thereof. This is the problem.

I don't even think Adam's syndication company got direct mob pressure themselves, I think they just saw the headlines, some papers dropping him, and they pre-emptively cancelled him out of fear of possible retribution and fall-out from it.
So all it took was one person/company to cave and Adam's lost 80% of his income and his website and book deals etc.
 

Offline tszaboo

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Back to Dilbert itself:
At the end of the previous millennium, there was a short-lived (two seasons) animated version of Dilbert on US television.
I noticed that it was actually more bitter than the newspaper version at that time.
Nevertheless, my favorite was the ninth episode of the first series, on the topic of Y2K, as Dilbert's workplace faces the problem of an obsolescent IT system.
It traced the problem back to 1975, when Wally was a fresh young engineer, not yet broken.
When he started there, the senior staff showed him around and pointed out that they used two places to indicate the year (i.e. "87", not "1987").
He asked, "won't that be a problem in 25 years?", to which the staff laughed.
Yes the Dilbert television is great, and really enjoyable. I don't think its on any platforms now, and after this I don't think anyone would pick it up, so its lost for the masses.

However, I don't think cancel culture could be fought against by concentrating on the cancel mob. They are beyond salvation, and finally, they have freedom of speech, too. The solution is to stop giving way to the extortion tactics. For example, trust your employees and your own set of rules and don't fire them only because someone asked you to. The actual dirty work is always done by people who do not support the cancel mob or cancel culture, out of stupidity, laziness, fear, or combination thereof. This is the problem.

I don't even think Adam's syndication company got direct mob pressure themselves, I think they just saw the headlines, some papers dropping him, and they pre-emptively cancelled him out of fear of possible retribution and fall-out from it.
So all it took was one person/company to cave and Adam's lost 80% of his income and his website and book deals etc.
So he went with locals, and with a 70$ a year subscription. It's more than amazon prime  >:( This is usually the comparison that I make when someone sets up a subscription for something trivial, and virtual. By the looks of it, about half the content is supporters only. Unfortunately, he decided to make half the Dilbert comics supporter only  :(.
TBH I don't really like locals, and I didn't see any improvement in a year. The built in player is bad compared to Youtube. The main stream is filled with content from other people (which I frankly don't care about). No way to filter for video content only.
 

Offline EEVblog

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So he went with locals, and with a 70$ a year subscription. It's more than amazon prime  >:( This is usually the comparison that I make when someone sets up a subscription for something trivial, and virtual. By the looks of it, about half the content is supporters only. Unfortunately, he decided to make half the Dilbert comics supporter only  :(.
TBH I don't really like locals, and I didn't see any improvement in a year. The built in player is bad compared to Youtube. The main stream is filled with content from other people (which I frankly don't care about). No way to filter for video content only.

He's always been a top tier creator on Locals, and he's an investor of some description in the company I believe. So makes sense he's heavily promoting it. But to have that as your only outlet seems like a really dumb move.
I set up a Locals page way back and promoted it but hardly anyone used it. And yeah, it was quirky to use. So I dropped some time back.
Yes, $70/year just for a cartoon is too much. he offers other stuff in therem, but hardly any of his existing Dilbert audience would be interested in that.
116k followers on Locals and only 131 thumbs and 29 comments on his latest Man Cave stream.
I think he'd be way better off selling it for $2/month on Twitter Subscriptions to his 1M followers.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 10:09:01 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Zero999

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Simple: "cancel culture" is what they call it when one of their own experiences consequences. "f*** around and find out" is what they call it when someone else experiences consequences.
Consequences for what?
 

Offline james_s

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Consequences for what?

Words. Some people are deeply offended by words, I don't get how but it is certainly the case. And those people think that words should be a crime with as severe a punishment as possible and no path to redemption.
 

Offline PlainName

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Consequences for what?

Words. Some people are deeply offended by words, I don't get how but it is certainly the case. And those people think that words should be a crime with as severe a punishment as possible and no path to redemption.

Come to that, the abuse is words too, and the abused are getting offended by that use of words. Assuming they don't turn out to be actual acts, what's the difference? Sauce for the goose, etc.
 

Offline james_s

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Come to that, the abuse is words too, and the abused are getting offended by that use of words. Assuming they don't turn out to be actual acts, what's the difference? Sauce for the goose, etc.

Well I'm not all that bothered by abuse that is just words, ignore it, problem solved. It is when it is in the form of direct threats, libel, etc that I take issue with it.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Come to that, the abuse is words too, and the abused are getting offended by that use of words. Assuming they don't turn out to be actual acts, what's the difference? Sauce for the goose, etc.

Well I'm not all that bothered by abuse that is just words, ignore it, problem solved. It is when it is in the form of direct threats, libel, etc that I take issue with it.

Sometimes there's a fine line here.

And just "words" can have a devastating effect on someone's "online reputation", which may not matter one bit if you don't have a public exposure, and even less so if you're essentially anonymous, but words can go as far as destroying your life otherwise.

It's not the words per se, but the reaction they cause in others. You can control how you receive those words for sure, but you can't control how all others do.
 

Offline james_s

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Sometimes there's a fine line here.

And just "words" can have a devastating effect on someone's "online reputation", which may not matter one bit if you don't have a public exposure, and even less so if you're essentially anonymous, but words can go as far as destroying your life otherwise.

It's not the words per se, but the reaction they cause in others. You can control how you receive those words for sure, but you can't control how all others do.

That is true. This is one of those cases where it is not cut & dry, some judgement is necessary. I am by no means advocating abuse, and it should be looked down upon and discouraged, but I learned by dealing with bullies in my youth that the best tactic is usually to ignore them and don't give them the reaction they're looking for. In the online world it's much easier to block somebody.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Sometimes there's a fine line here.
And just "words" can have a devastating effect on someone's "online reputation", which may not matter one bit if you don't have a public exposure, and even less so if you're essentially anonymous, but words can go as far as destroying your life otherwise.
It's not the words per se, but the reaction they cause in others. You can control how you receive those words for sure, but you can't control how all others do.

I have long time fans who now absolutely hate my guts and think I'm a *insert -ism - phobe" piece of shite because they saw someone out of context post of mine reposted somewhere. If people are pre-disposed to that sort of reactionary thinking then literally the smallest thing you say can trigger them off. Even just following someone like Adams and still liking Dilbert will be enough to trigger them.
It's just an unfortunate fact of moden social conditioning and outrage culture.
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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I have long time fans who now absolutely hate my guts and think I'm a *insert -ism - phobe" piece of shite because they saw someone out of context post of mine reposted somewhere. If people are pre-disposed to that sort of reactionary thinking then literally the smallest thing you say can trigger them off. Even just following someone like Adams and still liking Dilbert will be enough to trigger them.
It's just an unfortunate fact of moden social conditioning and outrage culture.
In academia, especially lecturing, 'networking' and 'reputation' is key, and this sort of stuff is career death.

But until it happens to oneself or a close associate, most people just do not believe it could happen to them.  Weird.
 

Offline EEVblog

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I have long time fans who now absolutely hate my guts and think I'm a *insert -ism - phobe" piece of shite because they saw someone out of context post of mine reposted somewhere. If people are pre-disposed to that sort of reactionary thinking then literally the smallest thing you say can trigger them off. Even just following someone like Adams and still liking Dilbert will be enough to trigger them.
It's just an unfortunate fact of moden social conditioning and outrage culture.
In academia, especially lecturing, 'networking' and 'reputation' is key, and this sort of stuff is career death.

Which is why just the fear of cancel culture works, it keeps people silent. Head down and shut up.

Quote
But until it happens to oneself or a close associate, most people just do not believe it could happen to them.  Weird.

Yup. Let's just say this has happened to more than one left learning woke friend of mine. And also friends of other creators who are equally "problematic" like I am. If you aren't 100% towing the line they'll eat you alive.
And yes, it's practically a 100% left leaning phenomenom. The "right" seem to just shrug their shoulders and go, meh.
 
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Offline nctnico

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I have long time fans who now absolutely hate my guts and think I'm a *insert -ism - phobe" piece of shite because they saw someone out of context post of mine reposted somewhere. If people are pre-disposed to that sort of reactionary thinking then literally the smallest thing you say can trigger them off. Even just following someone like Adams and still liking Dilbert will be enough to trigger them.
It's just an unfortunate fact of moden social conditioning and outrage culture.
In academia, especially lecturing, 'networking' and 'reputation' is key, and this sort of stuff is career death.

But until it happens to oneself or a close associate, most people just do not believe it could happen to them.  Weird.
But isn't the problem at the receiving end? People jumping to conclusions too quickly? It is much like the good old lynching parties. Doesn't matter if someone is guilty, just hang from a tree or burn alive! Maybe society is evolving backwards and internet & media has become a way to visit the Colosseum to see how the 'royals du jour' dressed up and who gets butchered today.

I tend to agree with Dave that the problem is in the society -if that is what he is suggesting-.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 10:45:23 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Maybe society is evolving backwards and internet & media has become a way to visit the Colosseum to see how the 'royals du jour' dressed up and who gets butchered today.
Bread and circuses have always worked, and always will.  We're no different in our base needs now than we were a couple of millenia ago.

While individuals are complex, mobs or herd mentality brings out their base needs and drowns out everything else.  Everyone should know about the Asch conformity experiments, and think about what the results mean.  It is a large part of why and how agitation and propaganda works –– and why ads work! ––, by presenting a world where only one opinion or choice is conformant to a specific narrative or story.  Even if there technically are other options, herd mentality will drive the majority to choose the conforming option – at least if they wish to adopt the narrative.

But isn't the problem at the receiving end? People jumping to conclusions too quickly?
My opinion is that we need individuals that resist being part of such mobs.  This involves a cultural push to emphasize individual thought and the ability to debate every possible subject, including opinions and things considered "beyond questioning".

It involves things like teaching people that racism isn't something 'evil people' do.  It is something related to the in-group preference and out-group rejection that increases cohesion in mid-sized (larger than extended family, but not urban) societies, and the psychological machinery in each human that is involved in that.  It is something every individual has in varying degrees, and has to recognize in themselves, accept, and work out; there is no group that is completely free of this preference.  Evolution affects us all.  To be healthy, we – as individuals – must control it in ourselves, just like we need to exercise and control our caloric intake, because the majority of humans will lapse into sessile obesity given the option.

Or maybe I'm just naïve, and don't understand how the real world works.  :-//
 
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Offline EEVblog

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I tend to agree with Dave that the problem is in the society -if that is what he is suggesting-.

Yes, the grievance/victim/oppresor culture is being actively taught in the universities and filters out into society. it's a well documented phenomenom actually and has been happening for decades. Social media gave the movement god-like powers.
Adams touched on this in todays live show, talking about success mindsets, and how an SJW/DEI/ESG focussed mindset is ultimately a guaranteed losing mindset.
 
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Offline m k

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Consequences for what?

Words. Some people are deeply offended by words, I don't get how but it is certainly the case. And those people think that words should be a crime with as severe a punishment as possible and no path to redemption.

Publication, reputation and shame.
It's from the past.

It's my name, my name is my name!
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(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Yes, the grievance/victim/oppresor culture is being actively taught in the universities and filters out into society.
In Finland, comprehensive school class teachers (typically up to grade 6, or about 13 year olds) require Masters in Pedagogical Sciences ("kasvatustieteen maisteri"), and most subjects also require a masters with a minor in pedagogical sciences.  This easily explains why that culture has permeated our school system so thoroughly in the last ten-fifteen years.  As the baby boomers have retired, there was simply nobody left to push back on the ideologically-driven hogwash.  And the results we already know: PISA scores plummeting.
 

Offline Zero999

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The subject was last put to bed six months ago and the last poll had 88 against, 70 for it and 22 couldn't give a toss either way.   :-\

I enjoy a good waffle as much as anyone but I don't think this is the place for it.   :-X 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/important-poll-should-there-be-an-off-topic-section/
Polls can be interpreted in different ways.

It states that fewer than half of the people here are against the idea of an off-topic section, so that would be an argument for.

Or:

One could argue that those who don't care, will be under-represented, as most of those who couldn't give a toss, probably wouldn't bother responding, which gives 55.7% against and 44.3% for.

My view is it should be a separate private section. I wouldn't have said this 5 years ago, but politics has being gradually creeping in at work, with the diversity and inclusivity training and similar nonsense pushed by the managers. Dave obviously has the final say, whatever we think.

I tend to agree with Dave that the problem is in the society -if that is what he is suggesting-.

Yes, the grievance/victim/oppresor culture is being actively taught in the universities and filters out into society. it's a well documented phenomenom actually and has been happening for decades. Social media gave the movement god-like powers.
Adams touched on this in todays live show, talking about success mindsets, and how an SJW/DEI/ESG focussed mindset is ultimately a guaranteed losing mindset.
Yes it's nothing new. Whilst the economic elements of Marxism have largely been eradicated from culture, the social aspects remain and have been embraced by many institutions. I know that many on the right through the word Marxism around too much, but I call a spade a spade. Looking a society through the lens of oppressor/oppressed and advocating policies of ensuring equity for all marginalised groups is inherently Marxist. This is very different to equality of opportunity, which is what was promoted by most on the left 20 years ago. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that equal opportunity hasn't resulted in X, Y and Z minorities in all areas of life representing the population. Of course this was never going to happen. There will be different proportions of people in different roles due to cultural and biological factors. There always will be disproportionally fewer female engineers and more female child carers. Attempting to socially engineer a system to ensure equity is a recipe for disaster.
 

Offline EEVblog

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The subject was last put to bed six months ago and the last poll had 88 against, 70 for it and 22 couldn't give a toss either way.   :-\

I enjoy a good waffle as much as anyone but I don't think this is the place for it.   :-X 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/important-poll-should-there-be-an-off-topic-section/
Polls can be interpreted in different ways.

It states that fewer than half of the people here are against the idea of an off-topic section, so that would be an argument for.

Or if you add in the 22% who think it shuld be hidden means that 70% thing it's at leats not a good idea for forum beginners and the public to see.

Quote
My view is it should be a separate private section. I wouldn't have said this 5 years ago, but politics has being gradually creeping in at work, with the diversity and inclusivity training and similar nonsense pushed by the managers. Dave obviously has the final say, whatever we think.

I would want to see an overwhelming majority for it, and also a lot of people voting to consider it. But even then I only see it as mostly having downside.

You also have to factor in the inevitable massive rise in reported posts. So this would either require it's own moderator, or there is a rule that no reports at all allowed and literally anything goes. Racist abuse? Stalking? Constant harressment on every post you make? Death threats? Rabbid Solar roadways supporters? Don't care, you asked for it...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 10:51:47 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

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Can you square the contradiction between these two statements:

I have long time fans who now absolutely hate my guts and think I'm a *insert -ism - phobe" piece of shite because they saw someone out of context post of mine reposted somewhere. If people are pre-disposed to that sort of reactionary thinking then literally the smallest thing you say can trigger them off. Even just following someone like Adams and still liking Dilbert will be enough to trigger them.
It's just an unfortunate fact of moden social conditioning and outrage culture.
In academia, especially lecturing, 'networking' and 'reputation' is key, and this sort of stuff is career death.

Which is why just the fear of cancel culture works, it keeps people silent. Head down and shut up.

Quote
But until it happens to oneself or a close associate, most people just do not believe it could happen to them.  Weird.

Yup. Let's just say this has happened to more than one left learning woke friend of mine. And also friends of other creators who are equally "problematic" like I am. If you aren't 100% towing the line they'll eat you alive.
And yes, it's practically a 100% left leaning phenomenom. The "right" seem to just shrug their shoulders and go, meh.

and...

Dave, so you want to discuss "cancel culture", without any aspect of race or politics?

Yes. If you think you can't do that, then don't.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Can you square the contradiction between these two statements:

It's The Vibe
 

Online JohanH

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This easily explains why that culture has permeated our school system so thoroughly in the last ten-fifteen years.  As the baby boomers have retired, there was simply nobody left to push back on the ideologically-driven hogwash.  And the results we already know: PISA scores plummeting.

Do you have a source or is this your own conclusion?
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Can you square the contradiction between these two statements:
I can.  It is not causation, it is statistical correlation, via personality traits.

It does not mean that your personality traits dictate who you vote for, at all.  It simply means it seems that the big 5 personality traits that are common among those who agree with the social justice / cancellation / shunning going on, tend to currently have very left-leaning political views.

What is the key here, is that not all who have left-leaning political views are cancelists!

Note that I myself pointed out that in the past, when the mainstream conformist pressure was towards conservatism, the cancelist/shunners were conservative.  This all goes down into herd mentality and social pressure mechanisms in urban environments.

Dave's "And yes, it's practically a 100% left leaning phenomenom. The "right" seem to just shrug their shoulders and go, meh." is my observation also.
Note: my observation.  That is also how I understood Dave meant it too:  that Dave hasn't seen any right-wingers trying to cancel others.

I do understand that in USA, McCarthyism was a thing (right-wing cancellism), but hasn't been a thing for decades now.

This easily explains why that culture has permeated our school system so thoroughly in the last ten-fifteen years.  As the baby boomers have retired, there was simply nobody left to push back on the ideologically-driven hogwash.  And the results we already know: PISA scores plummeting.
Do you have a source or is this your own conclusion?
My own conclusion, largely based on my personal contacts and observations wrt. teacher education in the last two decades.  I could have prefaced that paragraph with "in my opinion", but I thought it obvious.

If you are interested in finding out for yourself, I recommend you compare the comprehensive school curriculum (suomeksi, på svenska), to those in say mid-1990s.  (Of course, the old ones are not on the web, so to do such research, you need to contact OPH and hope you find someone willing to do extra work for you.)

The current one is full of ideas and models created in this century, relying on them without any scientific basis, except for their proponents hopes and beliefs.  'Yhteisöllinen oppiminen', or 'community learning', is a central one; and quite a few comprehensive school teachers I know say that it just does not work at all in practice.  If you take the time to read through it, and do a proper source review for each concept embedded in it, you'll find that "hogwash" is an apt characterization for it.
 

Online JohanH

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My own conclusion, largely based on my personal contacts and observations wrt. teacher education in the last two decades.  I could have prefaced that paragraph with "in my opinion", but I thought it obvious.


I will continue to regard this as your opinion, until I see evidence of this connection. When announcing such beliefs, it's important to tell so, otherwise people could believe it as a commonly known fact, backed by e.g. scientific research. It also sounds like other typical populist statements.

I don't know much about the area of teacher curriculum, but I've observed elementary, vocational and high school educations as a parent (and as elected representative in boards of education for elementary schools) and I've nothing to complain about. In fact, teaching and schools in Finland today are superior compared to the schools I attended to as a kid. This cancellation mob culture thing you are talking about, it's the opposite of what kids are thought. Now my kids haven't attended university (yet), so I have no knowledge about that. But you would think it would somehow show through their teachers if that's the case. This is my narrow experience and opinion.
 


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