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| TimFox:
--- Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on March 17, 2023, 04:30:20 pm --- --- Quote from: TimFox on March 17, 2023, 03:48:40 pm ---Several right-wing American politicians stated that SVB failed due to "wokeness". The New York Times fact-check department, pooping the party, checked the normal "D&I" and "ESG" scorekeepers for the financial industry and found SVB parked right near the middle/median of its peer group. Facts are for losers. --- End quote --- Not to blame "wokeness" entirely for the bank failure but... And you believe the New York Times "Fact Check"? If you do I have some cal equipment to sell....HA! --- End quote --- There are several rating agencies for "D&I" and "ESG". My brokerage lists their ratings on common stocks, for those who are interested. The NY Times merely quoted those agencies to determine "wokeness". Why should I distrust their quotation compared to unsupported comments from politicians? |
| Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: JohanH on March 17, 2023, 02:44:44 pm ---It's your connection to the "cancel mob" that I don't see. --- End quote --- It is a connection that I find extremely interesting. We have a significant drop in Finnish PISA scores between 2009 and 2012. Because these are comprehensive school students' scores, something changed significantly between year 2000 and 2012. During this decade, the curriculum was updated in 2004. It can be found in Finlex (finnish), and the publication actually delivered to teachers here in Swedish and for example here in Finnish. The earlier version from 1994 is only available in paper form, I believe. The steepest drop in PISA scores was in mathematics in 2012. If we look at the math section above, the goals, content, and criteria have not significantly changed. So, it is not like the materials that the pupils study has changed. However, the 2004 introduction is full of the Finnish leftist keywords: "arvopohja", "yhteisöllisyys", "monikulttuurisuus", "yhteisöllinen oppiminen". It is important to note that the entire concept of "yhteisöllinen oppiminen", collaborative learning, is based on Soviet concepts of education, specifically Lev Vygotskys zone of proximal development. It is used wholesale as the basis for 'inclusivity' later on, completely ignoring all its well-known weaknesses: unsuitable for large classrooms, with risk of students losing interest or even invalid peer-learning (which interestingly is one possible mechanism explaining the PISA score drops); with medium-learners at worst risk (because they learn best in small groups with similar peers, contrary to what ZOPE concept suggests). Everything I can see here points to well-meaning, but ideologically fixated people trying to turn Finnish comprehensive school into something that performs their own Marxist-Leninist ideology. Exactly like I've explained how the cancelists believe they're making the world a better place, but are actually just making things worse on the long run. A good example of this is the recent debacle, when (the parent of) a young pupil wanted to add the text "there are only two sexes" to their school work. (In Finnish, there is only one word for all four aspects of sex and gender, "sukupuoli". Biologically, the statement is a fact. Hermaphrodites belong to both, intersex to either one (which can be arbitrary if and only if they are not capable of biological reproduction).) Yet, the teacher/school reported it to the Ombudsman of Equality, which stated the school must deny/reject it or they will be in violation of equality laws in Finland. (If we look at the ages of the Finnish population in say 2005 (here, Wikipedia), we can see that those aged 50-59 were the largest ever generation in Finland, and considering the typical retirement age of 63 to 65 at that time, that generation would mostly retire before 2012. If we look at graduates in educational sciences between 2000 and 2016 (stats, Finnish) we'll see that while the typical number of masters' degrees was around 1700, in 2008 there were almost 2600, due to a change in the university programs (before that, many studied directly for a masters, without a bachelors). However, this did not correspond to any kind of a spike in unemployed teachers (stats, Finnish). Because most teachers in Finland have a masters degree, and the theses are indexed, looking at the subjects, approaches, and conclusions of the thesis works provides a very good insight into new teachers at finna.fi.) If I were to collate all the related information, I could show how this all ties in to the current social conformist cancel culture, through the Marxist-Leninist worldview. I'm not interested in trying to prove it, however, as this is just my observation and current opinion. Most interestingly, the alternatives, the existing explanations as to why Finnish PISA scores are dropping, are odd. In 2022, the results were described as 'still brilliant', with the main explanation offered being 'increasing deviation in individual results'. To be direct, I find your objection similar to how the chief of preventive police measures, Jari Taponen, still insists that "there are no street gangs in Finland", even though the National Bureau of Investigation says it has identified at least ten of them. The reason is that Taponen is big on Twitter Cancelism, even suing a member of parliament for calling him "a dickless whiner". Taponen is incapable of admitting the fact that the street gangs exist, because they consist of mainly 18-23 year old immigrants and children of immigrants, and this is contrary to his ideological beliefs (including the one that racism is by definition the majority oppressing a minority, and other Marxist crap). Just like for a decade now, the increasing overrepresentation of immigrants in sex crimes in the greater Helsinki region, is explained due to 'increase in willingness to report', rather than an actual change in the crimes occurring. The ideology prevents any fact-based objective examination, leaving only inane excuses and no actions done to rectify the situation. (That is not about race or ethnicity, though: it is about culture, because very specific nationalities/cultures, rather than ethnicities or races, are overrepresented. But the ideology of cultural relativism and multiculturalism does not allow for subjecting another culture to criticism, much less any kind of an action, especially if the members of that culture happen to mostly be of a different race.) |
| SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 17, 2023, 12:39:27 pm --- --- Quote from: JohanH on March 17, 2023, 11:43:58 am --- --- Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 17, 2023, 10:18:33 am --- My own conclusion, largely based on my personal contacts and observations wrt. teacher education in the last two decades. I could have prefaced that paragraph with "in my opinion", but I thought it obvious. --- End quote --- I will continue to regard this as your opinion, until I see evidence of this connection. --- End quote --- Why don't you check out the links I provided, then? Or do you not consider the mathematical literacy dropping to 16th place in 2018, from 2nd place in 2006, as being significant? --- End quote --- And it's the same in most western countries. And not just with math either. Meanwhile, the education level keeps rising in asian countries. And we wonder what our problem is and why we are unable to compete. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 17, 2023, 07:15:37 pm ---Meanwhile, the education level keeps rising in asian countries. And we wonder what our problem is and why we are unable to compete. --- End quote --- If you have any Asian friends, try talking to them about their kid's education. Whether I talk with Indians, Chinese, Koreans or Japanese they all paint a gloomy picture of low expectations and low effort compared with their own experiences at school. It just isn't as bad as in western countries. I have no idea what you do with a really smart kid in countries like the UK. There are no schooling options that will keep them pushing forward and engaged any more, and teaching them yourself isn't an option for most people. |
| JohanH:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 17, 2023, 06:15:12 pm --- It is a connection that I find extremely interesting. --- End quote --- Sorry, this is all very new to me and I would never have made that connection if I hadn't read about it in this thread. It's actually the very first place where I have seen this idea. All of your explanations for this alleged connection look like right-wing nuttery to me. And I don't know if I care about the subject so much that I would bother gathering more knowledge about it. The things that bother my mind right now are trivial things such as work and family and also the outcome of the Russian war in Ukraine, which will be a deciding step in the history of Europe. I couldn't care less about conservative conspiracy theories right now. Fortunately Finland will probably accepted into NATO. An arrest warrant was issued today by the ICC for Putin. All in all a good day for humanity. Now we can only wait for Trump to be indicted and the world is saved. Yeah, maybe not, but I'll celebrate anyway. |
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