General > General Technical Chat
Newton's third law problem.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 20, 2022, 06:21:26 pm ---A real world vehicle does probably need energy storage for acceleration and to avoid tiny losses causing a catastrophic failure, and an adjustable gearing \$0 \lt \lambda \lt 1\$, so it can optimize the gear ratio to the current car velocity \$v_c\$. Achieving any ratio \$\lambda \gt 0.5\$ is sufficient to travel faster than the treadmill.
In case anyone is wondering where the necessary energy is coming from, the answer is obvious: from the treadmill. When the "car" is placed on the treadmill, the larger \$\lambda\$ is, the more energy is needed to keep the treadmill moving at a given velocity \$v_t\$.
--- End quote ---
The claim I make and it is proved by the video's I shwed is that no vehicle including this one can move from left to right without both energy storage and stick slip systeresis.
I showed what happens when you have both energy storage and stick slip hysteresis https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/wheel-cart-energy-storage-slow:8
And also showed what happens if you remove the ability of the front wheel to slip https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/stick-slip-removed-from-front-wheels:0
Against all evidence and theoretical explanation of how it works people think is not true.
The friction of the back wheel slip in second video is significantly higher than the internal friction of the rotating parts of the vehicle. And is clear vehicle is dragged as that type of gearbox for this particular application is locked.
I think I will need to make a drawing showing the lever type equivalent of this vehicle as that may be more easy to understand.
You need to twist the belt (infinite symbol shape) in order for this mechanism to not be locked so changing the gear ratio will not help with anything.
bdunham7:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on November 20, 2022, 08:02:47 pm ---There can not be a force multiplication in this particular problem as the vehicle has only two points of contact.
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That's just silly. But perhaps think about motion amplification or reduction instead of forces if that helps. If you want to use a basic lever analysis, your 'third point of contact' is the net force against or motion of the body of the vehicle itself. And that might require Newtonian mechanics if you let it progress beyond the static case, but you have to understand Archimedes first.
As far as the video, it clearly shows just the opposite of what you say it does. Your interpretation of the video appears to be an optical delusion.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: PlainName on November 20, 2022, 06:37:09 pm ---Probably because we know full well that whatever explanations, theories, laws of physics, etc. are posted, nothing will drag you from your insistence that it is all about energy storage (and, as a corollary, the movement against the power source cannot happen).
--- End quote ---
I gave this example earlier but do you think you can add any mechanism (not powered) that can pull you towards the tree while you pull away from the tree ?
Or to be more equivalent pusing a solid pipe against a huge wall and the pipe using your energy to push you away from the wall?
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on November 20, 2022, 08:18:29 pm ---That's just silly. But perhaps think about motion amplification or reduction instead of forces if that helps. If you want to use a basic lever analysis, your 'third point of contact' is the net force against or motion of the body of the vehicle itself. And that might require Newtonian mechanics if you let it progress beyond the static case, but you have to understand Archimedes first.
As far as the video, it clearly shows just the opposite of what you say it does. Your interpretation of the video appears to be an optical delusion.
--- End quote ---
Motion amplification ? What will that even mean ?
Are you saying power output of the back wheel can be higher than power input on the front wheel ? Since it sounds like that.
What video and please explain what you see if you do not agree with my explanation of what happens.
I clearly see a vehicle that is not moving relative to the ground and a front wheel that moves while belt is stretched so force increases and so is power that it is stored (stretched belt is stored energy).
Then when force is large enough the front wheel slips allowing the back wheel to push the vehicle using the energy stored earlier in the belt and when that belt is discharged the cycle repeats.
SiliconWizard:
Wasn't this already shown in one of the threads on people being completely wrong about electricity?
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