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Newton's third law problem.
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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: IanB on November 20, 2022, 10:33:06 pm ---
The vehicle will move to the right, obviously.

Until you can see that, your reasoning is defective, and many things you try to deduce with your defective reasoning will be wrong.

The reason nobody will debate with you is not because it is boring, but because it is pointless. Since you cannot, or will not, understand, there is no point trying to explain anything to you.

--- End quote ---

Have you looked at the lever version? See attachment if not.
Do you still think it will move to the right ? If so explain how F2 can be different from F1.
IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on November 20, 2022, 10:50:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: IanB on November 20, 2022, 10:33:06 pm ---
The vehicle will move to the right, obviously.

Until you can see that, your reasoning is defective, and many things you try to deduce with your defective reasoning will be wrong.

The reason nobody will debate with you is not because it is boring, but because it is pointless. Since you cannot, or will not, understand, there is no point trying to explain anything to you.

--- End quote ---

Have you looked at the lever version? See attachment if not.
Do you still think it will move to the right ? If so explain how F2 can be different from F1.

--- End quote ---

The green bar will move to the right, obviously (again).

I do not care about the value of F2 (or indeed F1). They are irrelevant to the outcome.

See the attached animation for the wheeled cart example. The cart moves to the left when the belts under the wheels move to the right. This is a pure mathematical model. There is no slip, no energy storage, no hysteresis, no anything of that. The observed outcome is a simple mathematical fact arising from the configuration of belts, wheels and axles.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: IanB on November 20, 2022, 11:00:40 pm ---
The green bar will move to the right, obviously (again).

I do not care about the value of F2 (or indeed F1). They are irrelevant to the outcome.

See the attached animation for the wheeled cart example. The cart moves to the left when the belts under the wheels move to the right. This is a pure mathematical model. There is no slip, no energy storage, no hysteresis, no anything of that. The observed outcome is a simple mathematical fact arising from the configuration of belts, wheels and axles.

(Well, it seems the forum strips the animation. I'll have to try another way.)

--- End quote ---

Yes there is no animation but I think I saw that some time ago if I'm not mistaken.

You need a physical not mathematical model. Even the lever can move if you apply an external force other than F1 but there is nothing other than F1 in this setup.
It seems you ignore the lever model. You do care what F1 is in relation to F2 if you want to understand how this vehicle can move. Because is clear it can not move if you remove the stick slip and or energy storage.
PlainName:

--- Quote --- the vehicle works the same way with charging and stick slip hysteresis as there is no other way for the vehicle to work
--- End quote ---

That, there, illustrates why you will never get this. You start out 'knowing' it won't work, so therefore nothing anyone can do or suggest will show it working because, well, you know it can't.

Just for once, try NA's suggestion without a preconceived idea and see what happens. Once you have uncontaminated experimental data you can argue about how it came about and what it means, and refine the experiment for more data if necessary.
IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on November 20, 2022, 11:13:46 pm ---It seems you ignore the lever model. You do care what F1 is in relation to F2 if you want to understand how this vehicle can move. Because is clear it can not move if you remove the stick slip and or energy storage.

--- End quote ---

And yet the green bar moves to the right with no stick slip or energy storage needed. How do you explain that?
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