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| Newton's third law problem. |
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| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: PlainName on November 23, 2022, 12:16:05 am ---Why is this started up again, electrodacus? No-one can change your mind, and you can't change the laws of physics or the opinions of anyone not you. That's been amply demonstrated in more than one lengthy thread previously. So... why did you start this again? The only reason I could think of if someone else had done so is because they still couldn't solve the problem and wanted some help to clear up some points. But you don't - you know what you know and nothing is going to change that. Even if there was something you were unsure of, you wouldn't accept what anyone explained or demonstrated anyway unless it fit your already decided solution. --- End quote --- I need to share the world with all of you. So it is in my interest that people understand how the world works as I depend on that. What you (all) are claiming violates energy conservation so since that is not possible the explanation is wrong. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 23, 2022, 12:21:18 am --- Where the insistence of energy storage being involved here stems from, I can only imagine. There is no need for one. The same math is valid both at standstill and at any velocity, continuously. Even if one were to examine the forces, one would see they balance perfectly at each instance; with the only "energy storage" being the linear and angular momentum in the "car" or "spool", both perfectly aligned in the direction of travel. No vertical motion at all, unless slippage occurs; and the systems I've described are explicitly in the no-slip cases. You can make all sorts of things "work" if they slip a bit, but these ones do not need slippage or energy storage to behave as I've described. :-// --- End quote --- I guess you did not read my reply to your latest comment. There is slip with gears also due to the gear shapes you are pushing an upside-down triangle on to another triangle so the two triangle will slip past each other lifting the gear that in this particular case is representing the vehicle. So there is both slip and energy storage in the gear vehicle example. And if you want to know about why energy conservation is relevant here then let me explain. Any gearbox (witch is what this vehicles are) have an input and an output. The output power of the gearbox can not be higher than the input power and this is what you are all claiming without realizing you do. The energy storage and stick slip hysteresis is necessary for this to work while not violating the energy conservation law. Fact: Power needed to overcome drag for a vehicle driving at 30m/s with no wind is exactly the same as for the same vehicle driving at 10m/s in to a 20m/s head wind. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote ---Fact: Power needed to overcome drag for a vehicle driving at 30m/s with no wind is exactly the same as for the same vehicle driving at 10m/s in to a 20m/s head wind. --- End quote --- And 40m/s with a 10m/s tailwind, right? |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: PlainName on November 23, 2022, 01:37:12 am --- --- Quote ---Fact: Power needed to overcome drag for a vehicle driving at 30m/s with no wind is exactly the same as for the same vehicle driving at 10m/s in to a 20m/s head wind. --- End quote --- And 40m/s with a 10m/s tailwind, right? --- End quote --- Yes. |
| AVGresponding:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 23, 2022, 12:21:18 am ---Where the insistence of energy storage being involved here stems from, I can only imagine. :-// --- End quote --- My (admittedly cynical) guess is a desire to jump on the novel energy storage solution/harvesting bandwagon... |
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