General > General Technical Chat
Newton's third law problem.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: IanB on November 24, 2022, 03:25:27 am ---And if you average the upwind movement over thousands or millions of cycles, then at the limit it becomes continuous upwind movement, which can last forever, without stopping.
--- End quote ---
It is never a continues upwind movement even if it will look like that the same way as a youtube video looks continues to you even if is just 30 or 60 separate frames.
The point is that power that wind pushes against the vehicle even if you capture all of that at 100% efficiency is not enough to advance against wind direction so you need to wait while you charge a small energy storage device then use that stored energy to advance a tiny amount against the wind direction.
When you sail upwind this cycles are much larger so that you can actually see them as you actually drive at an angle where you can using directly wind power then when you picked up enough speed (so increased the vehicle kinetic energy) you can rotate even direct upwind and you will advance in that direction while the speed and thus kinetic energy drops.
Direct down wind will also be visible if you did the test for long enough to see how acceleration rate drops as stored energy is used up then see how vehicle slows down all the way below wind speed where you can recharge and start the cycle again.
fourfathom:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on November 24, 2022, 03:44:23 am ---
--- Quote from: IanB on November 24, 2022, 03:25:27 am ---And if you average the upwind movement over thousands or millions of cycles, then at the limit it becomes continuous upwind movement, which can last forever, without stopping.
--- End quote ---
It is never a continues upwind movement even if it will look like that the same way as a youtube video looks continues to you even if is just 30 or 60 separate frames.
The point is that power that wind pushes against the vehicle even if you capture all of that at 100% efficiency is not enough to advance against wind direction so you need to wait while you charge a small energy storage device then use that stored energy to advance a tiny amount against the wind direction.
--- End quote ---
And yet, the net motion is still upwind. How can this possibly be happening, given your "stored energy" theory??? (hint: You are wrong.)
bdunham7:
--- Quote from: fourfathom on November 24, 2022, 03:18:35 am ---You have not learned a thing from these tedious discussions.
--- End quote ---
Apparently some of us haven't either.... :-DD
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: fourfathom on November 24, 2022, 04:29:06 am ---
And yet, the net motion is still upwind. How can this possibly be happening, given your "stored energy" theory??? (hint: You are wrong.)
--- End quote ---
If you are not moving wait for 1 minute to charge your energy storage then move at any low speed upwind for even a second will you not have an average upwind speed higher than zero ?
fourfathom:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on November 24, 2022, 04:31:56 am ---
--- Quote from: fourfathom on November 24, 2022, 03:18:35 am ---You have not learned a thing from these tedious discussions.
--- End quote ---
Apparently some of us haven't either.... :-DD
--- End quote ---
You're right. Although I can quit anytime I like... (he said)
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