Author Topic: No more Altium license server access :'(  (Read 19936 times)

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Offline slateraptor

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No more Altium license server access :'(
« on: December 19, 2012, 01:21:06 am »
Found out last night the hard way that I no longer have access to my alma mater's Altium license server. :'( :'( :'(

So now I'm really in a predicament:

1.) Drop $5.5k for a perpetual license and hope AD12 isn't a bag of bug-ridden suck ass, or
2.) Fuck Altium on the principle merit and go with another PCB CAD.

IDK why they even sell the $1k perpetual license; it's worthless without PCB layout.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 04:15:56 am by slateraptor »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: No more Altium license server access :
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 01:22:43 am »
Why not.
Their system broken down again today?   :-DD

Dave.
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: No more Altium license server access :
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 01:29:44 am »
Why not.
Their system broken down again today?   :-DD

Dave.

Naw, I've simply outlived my welcome, so to speak; that's what I get for doing layout when the university is on winter break...so discovered. :-[ Asked a buddy who still had access to Altium but doesn't use it and he can still access the license no problem, so I've determined that the lack of access is likely hardware MAC-specific.
 

Offline McMonster

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Re: No more Altium license server access :
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 01:45:32 am »
Asked a buddy who still had access to Altium but doesn't use it and he can still access the license no problem, so I've determined that the lack of access is likely hardware MAC-specific.

MACs don't go beyond a network segment (the nearest switch or router), it's most commonly IP or license key based. Even if you're not a student and/or just not eligible, why not ask the university people for access? It may not be strictly legal, but they may just give you access for hobby use.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 02:14:44 am »
So now I'm really in a predicament:

1.) Drop $5.5k for a perpetual license and hope AD12 isn't a bag of bug-ridden suck ass, or
2.) Fuck Altium on the principle merit and go with another PCB CAD.

Option 3.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: No more Altium license server access :
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 03:30:41 am »
MACs don't go beyond a network segment (the nearest switch or router), it's most commonly IP or license key based.

It's not IP-related because 1.) access was denied as of yesterday (even tried again this morning), 2.) VPNing into the university's network is a no-go (which factors out a domain restriction being implemented), and 3.) my buddy who is also alumnus still has access (but doesn't do PCB design).

Nor is it license key based because there's no license on my computer; it's on a server located somewhere on campus and is 100% legit.

Furthermore, I can connect to the license server, but it no longer recognizes my computer as a valid user. Therefore, the block is explicitly directed at my computer. So the only way that can happen is via hardware MAC (as to which MAC, i.e. hard disk, network adapter, etc., I don't know), which is a trivial matter for Altium Designer to packetize and send as data rather than sensing end-user MAC via data link layer.


Even if you're not a student and/or just not eligible, why not ask the university people for access? It may not be strictly legal, but they may just give you access for hobby use.

Because it won't be just for hobby use. My company won't pay for it either...at least not yet (as a recent graduate and the only design engineer, demonstrating the light to old timers takes time). But even if they did, there would always be that ethical dilemma of using company furnished software for personal endeavors.


Option 3.

As much as I'd like to, I'm trying to stay professional and stray away from old habits. But for $5.5k, I'm liable to buy myself a go-fuck-yourself-Altium sticker and actively seek alternatives.
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 03:45:37 am »
P.S. Guess who has access to the license server again...WTF?!?! All this stress today about not having AD has made me realize just how dependent I've become. Even called up my bank and got $5.5k pre-approved personal loan just in case. It's pathetic...really. :-\
 

Offline Psi

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 03:50:50 am »
Maybe the server just hit its license limit and wouldn't let more people back on.

There could be an assignment due or something, so everyone was using it.

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Offline JoannaK

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 03:51:32 am »
Is Altium that good system? I know that a lot of people use it and have got things done, but the price (over 5K) .. Ah well, I frankly have no idea how much decent lisence of Pads costs these days.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 03:54:31 am »
Is Altium that good system? I know that a lot of people use it and have got things done, but the price (over 5K) .. Ah well, I frankly have no idea how much decent lisence of Pads costs these days.

Yes, Altium really is very good.

But no software is good enough to justify 5k for a hobbyest.
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Offline slateraptor

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 04:09:12 am »
Maybe the server just hit its license limit and wouldn't let more people back on.

There could be an assignment due or something, so everyone was using it.

The entire university is on winter vacation. Besides, I can see every computer currently connected to the license server, and it's just little old me and a lab computer that wasn't shut down...and believe me, it's not a limit issue.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 04:30:11 am »
Cloud server gone and falled over......... Bring back the old DONGLE......

You know, you probably could look around and find an "upgraded" version with the ET PHONE HOME parts of the code replaced by NOP's................. I am sure somebody with a flakey connection and good coding skills has done it.
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 05:39:00 am »
Cloud server gone and falled over......... Bring back the old DONGLE......

You know, you probably could look around and find an "upgraded" version with the ET PHONE HOME parts of the code replaced by NOP's................. I am sure somebody with a flakey connection and good coding skills has done it.

To quote myself...


Option 3.

As much as I'd like to, I'm trying to stay professional and stray away from old habits. But for $5.5k, I'm liable to buy myself a go-fuck-yourself-Altium sticker and actively seek alternatives.
 

Offline perfect_disturbance

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 05:54:22 am »
So let me get this. Stealing from altium is unprofessional and not acceptable. Stealing from your university absolutely acceptable?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 06:39:11 am »
1.) Drop $5.5k for a perpetual license and hope AD12 isn't a bag of bug-ridden suck ass, or

I wouldn't, if you can't get fixes for it without subscription payments then you could be stuck with a turd.
I have not heard of a widely praised "stable" version since they started this whole frequent update thing.
And that's what they bet on, that you'll fork out for maintenance to get bug fixes.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: No more Altium license server access :
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 06:47:42 am »
But even if they did, there would always be that ethical dilemma of using company furnished software for personal endeavors.

Why?
I've always thought that's a universally accepted perk (by both parties) of being employed by a large company, you have access to better tools.
So long as it doesn't get in the way of your job, and it's done in personal time of course, no problem  :-+

Dave.
 

Offline JuKu

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Re: No more Altium license server access :
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 08:17:47 am »
But even if they did, there would always be that ethical dilemma of using company furnished software for personal endeavors.

Why?
I've always thought that's a universally accepted perk (by both parties) of being employed by a large company, you have access to better tools.
So long as it doesn't get in the way of your job, and it's done in personal time of course, no problem  :-+

Dave.
The laws differ, but at least here, that is strictly illegal. You are using company resources for your personal gain. That is in principle, unethical and illegal. That said, many companies realize that:
- there is not wear and tear on software or instruments just for using them
- hobby projects are satisfying, and the employees are developing a competing products or running a side job (at least not very often...)
- the hobby projects are very educating. The employees learn, are better in their day jobs and might come up with good ideas of improvements for the company

In my previous job, I was leading a group of engineers. I made the house policy:
- I had to be aware of all. No "what the heck is this?" or "why are we out of x?" moments.
- No breaking company license agreements. We had some cool stuff, but in some cases, there was restrictions on how and where it could be used.
- No side jobs. For a company selling development services it is not ok to do development of your own using company resources. -Or even using your own stuff (no compete), for that matter. Of course, exceptions could be negotiated in special cases.
- The company has the right to first bid, if any cool stuff emerges (by law here anyway, but made clear)
- Within reason, the company pays the components. Also, ok to use whatever parts we had in the lab. I wanted the guys to learn.

The guys liked it, the policy was not abused and some cool stuff did came out .
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Offline tom66

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 08:30:44 am »
I really don't know why they don't release, say, a $55 hobbyist version. A hobbyist isn't going to put up $5.5k (well, most aren't...), so they may as well have a slice of the pie. It could be limited to 2 or 4 layers with X pins/pads. Or perhaps even have all the features of the full version but businesses are not allowed to use it or it may not be used for commercial gain.
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 08:55:16 am »
So let me get this. Stealing from altium is unprofessional and not acceptable. Stealing from your university absolutely acceptable?

Allow me to correct your interpretation: I'm simply exploiting the resources at my disposal as recent alumnus in an attempt to maximize ROI. Stealing? Wrong word...there's nothing to be stolen.


Why?
I've always thought that's a universally accepted perk (by both parties) of being employed by a large company, you have access to better tools.
So long as it doesn't get in the way of your job, and it's done in personal time of course, no problem  :-+

Dave.

Sadly, my personal home lab is far more equipped than both my company's non-existent lab and sub-contractor's sorry excuse for one.
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 09:22:07 am »
That's why I have switched to DipTrace. It's sometimes cumbersome, sometimes lacking features which i really liked about Altium but still: now I am using free version, because I don't earn with it, but eventually when I decide to run my own business, I will be able to afford the commercial license without problem. With Altium it would be rather steal from them (warez) or drop their software and learn something else. Since i want to run as legit as possible, I figured I'd just better switch to another tool now when I have no time constraints.

Bye, Altium. Ur software rocks, ur management sucks :/
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Offline Otatiaro

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 10:31:26 am »
Hello,

Need advice here too ...

I'm now working with Eagle mainly, but learning Altium Designer when I can ... I asked the French distributor of Altium for a quotation, the license is 3995€ and the yearly maintenance is 1750€.

That means every two years you paiy one more license, never seen that before (I'm also using Altium TASKING for ARM IDE, license cost is about 2k€ but maintenance is "only" 350€ a year ...).
But for TASKING they release one version every few months (not adding much in fact, I'm considering switching to Atollic because I may have to work on Freescale Vybrid chips and TASKING does not handle Cortex-A5 not dual core).

To be honnest, a customer offered to pay me a license for Altium (and SolidEdge ST5), but I said I'd pay the yearly maintenance ... that was before I know I have to pay half the license every year.

So my questions are ...
- I still have the option to refuse the maintenance, and pay "only" 3995€ to get AD, is it viable ? They said I still can take the maintenance later ...... but I'd have to pay the previous years too (say if I want the maintenance after 3 years, I'll have to pay the fee for the 3 years, which is ... well, more than the license itself ...)
- Do I have other options ? Eagle is now quite limited for me, especially on routing stuff (no push, etc, havn't try the "follow me" option yet, but had a demonstration by Eagle Team and was not that impressed), and I really like the 3D part of Altium, both for sending "meaningfull" pictures to the customer, and to be able to cross check that PCB footprints matches the 3D model (especially when the model comes from the manufacturer, e.g. Molex). That's why I'd need a SolidEdge ST5 license too (which is 2800€ without maintenance, or 3300€ with the first year of maintenance).

I'm also investing on FPGA these days, and it seems Altium has some tools related to FPGA development ...

Thomas.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 12:37:15 pm »
I'm also investing on FPGA these days, and it seems Altium has some tools related to FPGA development ...

On the surface they are ok, and quite novel. But when you get to any serious FPGA work, it's a case of the emperor has no clothes.
Hardly anyone uses the FPGA tools in Altium in practice, and their support is way behind on new chips.
I would recommend you stick with the vendor tools for everything (which you have to use anyway, under Altium)

Dave.
 

Offline mstevens

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 03:12:16 pm »
So let me get this. Stealing from altium is unprofessional and not acceptable. Stealing from your university absolutely acceptable?

Allow me to correct your interpretation: I'm simply exploiting the resources at my disposal as recent alumnus in an attempt to maximize ROI. Stealing? Wrong word...there's nothing to be stolen.


Uhmmmmm... yeahhhhh... technically it's stealing.  Perhaps you should look up the definition.  ...The definition typically states something along the lines of "taking without the owner's permission."  From the discussion and your own words it seems you are no longer at or affiliated with the University other than being an alumnus.  Generally when you leave a University, you give up your right to use University resources; even most University IDs state on them that the ID is property of the University and must be returned to the University.

So the question is... since "there is nothing to be stolen.", if you contact the Administrator of the University's Altium License server and ask "Do I have permission to continue to use this license server?"  Would that Administrator reply in the affirmative?  If not, clearly you are stealing!

A main quality that separates TRUE engineers from the rest of the world is their integrity.  Does anyone know why it is important to have integrity as a REAL Scientist or Engineer?

Do you think golf would be a cool sport if players had no integrity?

Further, while it is pretty offensive to lie to everyone else, one should never lie to themselves!! Are you sure you are not stealing??

Sure  I live in a glass house, but at least I PAID for my Altium License.
 

Offline dfnr2

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 03:50:57 pm »
So let me get this. Stealing from altium is unprofessional and not acceptable. Stealing from your university absolutely acceptable?
Allow me to correct your interpretation: I'm simply exploiting the resources at my disposal as recent alumnus in an attempt to maximize ROI. Stealing? Wrong word...there's nothing to be stolen.
It's not quite kosher.  The school likely gets an educational discount, and the intention is that the software be used for educational purposes.  Accessing the software for hobbyist use is harmless in a practical sense, as long as it's not depriving some student of access, because you're not likely to buy a full license for hobbyist use.  But it is ethically right on the borderline.

If you think hard about it, you can see that using the access for commercial projects is actually crossing that line--it's using an educational discount license for commercial work, depriving Altium of the commercial license revenue.  Going through a university discount license rather than an emulated license on a doctored copy is technically diffferent, but really ethically the same.

Regarding using work software for personal (hobby) use--I have seen that done everywhere I worked, and it is pretty much accepted.  Using workplace resources for startup operations (even noncompeting) is another story.

 

Online free_electron

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Re: No more Altium license server access :'(
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 04:11:59 pm »
Is Altium that good system? I know that a lot of people use it and have got things done, but the price (over 5K) .. Ah well, I frankly have no idea how much decent lisence of Pads costs these days.
Pads begins at 15k... And thats without schematic, simulation or anything.

Altium is dead cheap. It's the cheapest of em all. Cadence , mentor , zuken and altium are the big 4. And altium is the lowest orice. No mucking with options either. One price gets you everything.

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