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Noisy power from typical backup generators

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EmptyHead:
Johnny B Good
Thanks for the info. You've answered my questions. I think that's enough to help me decide it's a viable project.
Honda EU2200 3Q winding- 1.0 to 1.8 ohm acceptable resistance(according to Honda spec sheet)
During testing I've seen peak voltage of 286VAC L-L

Connecting a drill as a starter is something I do for other lawn & garden equipment but I've decided not to do that on EU2200 because it would require:
1. Removing/eliminating existing recoil start
2. Modifying flywheel mounted fan and mounting setup
3. Totally relocating the inverter

Johnny B Good:

--- Quote from: EmptyHead on February 27, 2021, 10:41:03 pm ---Johnny B Good
Thanks for the info. You've answered my questions. I think that's enough to help me decide it's a viable project.
Honda EU2200 3Q winding- 1.0 to 1.8 ohm acceptable resistance(according to Honda spec sheet)
During testing I've seen peak voltage of 286VAC L-L

Connecting a drill as a starter is something I do for other lawn & garden equipment but I've decided not to do that on EU2200 because it would require:
1. Removing/eliminating existing recoil start
2. Modifying flywheel mounted fan and mounting setup
3. Totally relocating the inverter

--- End quote ---

 AFAICR, the recoil starter mechanism is between the flywheel and the engine (BICBVW). I'll worry about that once I've pulled the casings off when the weather improves.

 Point two: I may face a similar situation but if there is a hexagonal bolt holding the flywheel/fan onto the end of the shaft, I may be able to use the electric drill trick, provided I can deal with point three which our Honda and Parkside inverter gensets have in common.

 I can understand your interest in adding an electronics pack to press the alternator into doubling up as a starter (a modern day version of the dynastart setup used by some small 2 cylinder marine engines in the previous century).

 For a DIY project, the cheap electric bike BLDC controller with isolating relays looks the most promising cost effective way to endow these inverter gensets with an electric start feature (provided some sort of hall effect sensor can be cobbled up - sensorless, fine as it is with propellor motors used by drones and RC controlled fixed and rotary wing models just doesn't work in this case).

John

Johnny B Good:

--- Quote from: james_s on February 27, 2021, 10:11:09 pm ---Well the EU2000i definitely uses a 3 phase permanent magnet alternator so it shouldn't be too hard to spin it with a BLDC controller. You don't need anywhere near the power level it is designed to generate in order to turn over the engine for starting so you might get away with a considerably lower voltage. Normally I think electric start is a pointless gimmick that adds considerable cost, bulk and weight and I actually quite like the elegant simplicity of a recoil starter, no battery to haul around or keep charged, no separate starting accessory to keep track of, just pull the self contained cord and it starts. In the case of a generator that already has most of the hardware present it makes a lot more sense though, just add a battery and a few extra parts and firmware on the inverter board. Hybrid cars have been using combined alternator/BLDC starter units for years.

--- End quote ---

 You've echoed my own thoughts regarding the idea of making the alternator double up as a starter for the want of a few extra components in the inverter module, requiring only the weight penalty of a battery which could even be a lightweight LiPo battery pack rather than a rather heavy 7 or 12 AH 12v SLA.

 John


 

james_s:
Well the service manual is readily available online so you can easily see how it all fits together. I would certainly not want to make any modifications that impair the recoil starter, as you wouldn't want to be unable to start your generator while the power is out due to forgetting to keep your cordless drill charged.

I find the little EU2000i to be easy to start with the recoil though, it's just a tiny little engine. Larger units require more strength and could more greatly benefit from electric starting, many of them already have it. There are also open frame inverter generators that are not only cheaper than the enclosed super portable suitcase models but the internal components are more accessible.

EmptyHead:

--- Quote --- For a DIY project, the cheap electric bike BLDC controller with isolating relays looks the most promising cost effective way to endow these inverter gensets with an electric start feature (provided some sort of hall effect sensor can be cobbled up - sensorless, fine as it is with propellor motors used by drones and RC controlled fixed and rotary wing models just doesn't work in this case).
--- End quote ---

I'm not an expert on BLDC controllers but I suspect EU2200 will require over 100V into stator for cranking speed and power. I hope that sensorless will work.
The 286VAC I mentioned earlier was in the most extreme case I could come up with - loaded to 3000W resistive load and disconnecting full load - it would overspeed to about 5800RPM and found peak voltage.

Toyota Prius starter/generator combo and 30 year old golf carts is what made me think of this - internet searches lead me to your post.


The EU2200 service manual is difficult to find online.

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