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Not sure how I feel about this.
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PlainName:

--- Quote ---a relatively minor risk (worse case person holding it dies)
--- End quote ---

That's a pretty bad worst case.


--- Quote --- versus fire a much worse risk (the whole building burns down and multiple peope die)
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Different thing. You surely aren't suggesting that a pretty bad albeit singular outcome is ignored simply because a different failure mode could be so much worse.
tom66:

--- Quote from: coppice on January 11, 2024, 07:46:04 pm ---With a lot of modern UK sockets, pushing in an earth pin alone doesn't work. There needs to be something pushing into the live and/or neutral holes as well for the shutters to open.

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This depends on the socket manufacturer, the permitted options are that live/neutral pins should be activated by insertion of earth, or insertion of both live and neutral simultaneously (or in rare cases, all three pins, with earth being the first pin).  Most sockets I've seen implement only the first option, but industrial/higher quality products might do more.  MK are known to use the second option on most of their products.  And to be honest, the first option is plenty safe.  If you want to bypass a safety function then there are many easier ways to get electrocuted such as a paperclip in an IEC C13 lead.
MarkT:

--- Quote from: Halcyon on January 11, 2024, 11:21:34 pm ---
Companies and government agencies waste thousands upon thousands of dollars every year for what is basically pointless and could essentially be carried out by a visual inspection.

--- End quote ---
Well the first part of PAT testing _is_ a  thorough visual inspection, so it enforces regular inspection as well as electrical tests.  As we all know if people don't _have_ to do something safety-related they usually stop doing it, a regulatory framework by contrast works a lot better.  Death by accidental electrocution is rare these days precisely because of the regulations and this sort of testing.  Laissez-faire simply doesn't work for safety.
Halcyon:

--- Quote from: MarkT on January 20, 2024, 12:23:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on January 11, 2024, 11:21:34 pm ---
Companies and government agencies waste thousands upon thousands of dollars every year for what is basically pointless and could essentially be carried out by a visual inspection.

--- End quote ---
Well the first part of PAT testing _is_ a  thorough visual inspection, so it enforces regular inspection as well as electrical tests.  As we all know if people don't _have_ to do something safety-related they usually stop doing it, a regulatory framework by contrast works a lot better.  Death by accidental electrocution is rare these days precisely because of the regulations and this sort of testing.  Laissez-faire simply doesn't work for safety.

--- End quote ---

I agree with the point about safety, however I don't agree with paying someone $5 per device, to spend a few seconds every year performing that visual inspection. The person(s) using said device are more than capable of doing it themselves every time they use/move/connect the device. It doesn't take any special skill or expertise to see that something is damaged and shouldn't be used.

I understand that there is more to this kind of testing than just the visual inspection, but has the rate of injury or death significantly decreased since portable appliance testing became a thing? I'm betting on "no".

The organisations that seem to be the most vocal about the "importance" of PAT, are the same businesses that are making money from the practice. Again, I'm not professing to be an expert, but as someone who is well educated, I don't really see much of a benefit, particularly for the time and money spent.
Someone:

--- Quote from: Halcyon on January 23, 2024, 01:44:04 am ---The person(s) using said device are more than capable of doing it themselves every time they use/move/connect the device. It doesn't take any special skill or expertise to see that something is damaged and shouldn't be used.
--- End quote ---
That may be true of the colleagues you work with, but having attended multiple electrical fires caused by people (ab)using cabling there are plenty of people out there who wont even follow basic safety instructions.
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