Not sure if it's news to you, but 2017 is the end of FM radio in Norway...

[Ampera]

It's not broke, don't fix it.

The EU normally has a pretty good reputation for having the better system. The power grid is arguably superior to the US, safety is boosted, and broadcasting standards tend to be improvements on our own.

But this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, it's not like with analog TV where usage has been declining, FM radio is the ONLY radio here in the US. We still use AM radio for news, talk, and sports shows. If you buy a car here, you get an FM/AM radio, and maybe some satellite rubbish you will never use. If we were to shutoff FM radio, there would be a sizable crowd ready to shove a few pitchforks up congressional rears.

And to be brutally honest, I've never heard of DAB, we do not have ANY DAB broadcasting stations in North America. And I am quite happy to keep on using FM, which sounds completely fine and costs pennies to implement, until radio itself becomes totally obsolete.

Honestly, I prefer my own recorded music in the car, or at many times, complete silence.

[nctnico]

Honestly, I prefer my own recorded music in the car, or at many times, complete silence.

They are also going to switch off FM in the NL but perhaps I have fitted an MP3 player in my car long before that because the commercials really annoy me.

[Ampera]

Honestly, I prefer my own recorded music in the car, or at many times, complete silence.

They are also going to switch off FM in the NL but perhaps I have fitted an MP3 player in my car long before that because the commercials really annoy me.

I'm actually curious, do you use the MP3 wrapper, or something else?

I tend to prefer AAC or M4A myself, FLAC if I have a lot of storage.

[nctnico]

Music is mostly non-random background noise to me so I have everything in MP3. The car makes noise as well so it doesn't really matter anyway.

[Ampera]

Music is mostly non-random background noise to me so I have everything in MP3. The car makes noise as well so it doesn't really matter anyway.

sorta the same here, although I can appreciate music when I do.

[FlyingHacker]

In the US we have HD Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio which simulcasts digital and analog. Most cars made within the last five years can receive both, at least higher end cars.

According to that Wikipedia article:

"As of May 2009, there were more stations in the world on the air with HD Radio technology than any other digital radio technology. More than 1,700 stations covering approximately 84% of the United States[4] are broadcasting with this technology, and more than 1,000 HD2 and HD3 multicast channels are on the air."

And

"The FCC has not indicated any intent to force off analog radio broadcasts as it has with analog television broadcasts,[1] as it would not result in the recovery of any radio spectrum rights which could be sold. Thus, there is no deadline by which consumers must buy an HD Radio receiver. In addition, there are many more analog AM/FM radio receivers than there were analog televisions, and many of these are car stereos or portable units that cannot be upgraded."

[cdev]

The way that the WTO rules work (GATS Article I:3 (b)and(c)) once they allow a service to become commercialized to the end user then unless everything stays exactly the same and there is no movement in terms of regulation at all, a process may kick in in that will result in them bit by bit eventually having to stop allowing free or lower cost provision of that service pretty soon in favor of the forms of regulation that maximize profits.  This applies to all "measures" which is a very broad term that includes all laws or policies of any kind.

Thats what's happened with broadcast television in my area. I live almost within sight of the transmission towers for one of the largest TV markets in my country, just slightly in the Fresnel zone as they put it. You used to be able to receive at least 30 channels with a tiny antenna here. When they turned off the analog TV channels suddenly you can only receive around five channels via DTV and they are all mostly crap.

[Ampera]

The way that the WTO rules work (GATS Article I:3 (b)and(c)) once they allow a service to become commercialized to the end user then unless everything stays exactly the same and there is no movement in terms of regulation at all, a process may kick in in that will result in them bit by bit eventually having to stop allowing free or lower cost provision of that service pretty soon in favor of the forms of regulation that maximize profits.  This applies to all "measures" which is a very broad term that includes all laws or policies of any kind.

Thats what's happened with broadcast television in my area. I live almost within sight of the transmission towers for one of the largest TV markets in my country, just slightly in the Fresnel zone as they put it. You used to be able to receive at least 30 channels with a tiny antenna here. When they turned off the analog TV channels suddenly you can only receive around five channels via DTV and they are all mostly crap.

Same here. ATSC is useless where I live. You get 3 channels, if your lucky.

[denverpilot]

"As of May 2009, there were more stations in the world on the air with HD Radio technology than any other digital radio technology. More than 1,700 stations covering approximately 84% of the United States[4] are broadcasting with this technology, and more than 1,000 HD2 and HD3 multicast channels are on the air."

Of course, what Wikipedia's article looking like it was written by an HD radio salesman, doesn't point out...

Is that with mergers and acquisitions and the general trend toward nationally syndicated shows, or as few local radio personalities as possible, all pursuing weak advertising revenue because no one is tuning in... a true vicious cycle...

... most of the HD subchannels are simply simulcasting something everyone can already get. Because more channels didn't equate to more content on broadcast radio, for the most part.

An example here locally would be that we have one 50,000 Watt AM station that's a newstalk format, who's studio feed is also simulcast on not just one, but two HD FM stations.

It didn't add to their coverage footprint at all, with a 50,000 watt monster signal available on AM.

About all you get is a slightly higher quality bandwidth, and that is marred by digital dropouts in any kind of hilly or mountainous areas, while AM gets a little quieter if at all.

So yeah, tons of FM (and even AM) "HD" radio, but with most channels just being simulcast, it appears to have generally been wholly unnecessary for stations owned by the same corporations to even buy it.

AM station going from AM analog to Stereo/HD mode on my car decks, is the most interesting transition. Huge change in sound

There's one station locally who uses their HD sub carrier to do something awesome. They have a series of acoustic studio sessions with bands and single artists as they travel, and they dedicated one of their subcarriers to that music library,  24/7/365 without commercials.  That's nice!

[VK5RC]

Rather interestingly in Australia, with summer and the bushfire season approaching, in the last few years the Government agencies have been encouraging people to have a 'bushfire action plan' and a 'kit' of basic gear- water, first aid, radio, spare batteries etc . Power and phone services often are one of the first to go in a bushfire area. The official station to listen to for fire updates is the local AM station, much better propagation esp if lot of smoke and dust etc. FM and DAB+ services also available here.

[nctnico]

In the US we have HD Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio which simulcasts digital and analog. Most cars made within the last five years can receive both, at least higher end cars.

I guess it would be too much to ask for a single worldwide standard in 2017   

[VK3DRB]

I do not listen to FM, except on the occasion I travel outside the big City of Melbourne. I have used DAB+ in the car and home for about 8 years with about 40 or more stations to choose from. Plus several thousand stations from the Internet. FM is antiquated and an inferior technology to DAB+ if you have a good signal.

I remember about 20 years ago a station called 2CO in Cobram was planning to move from AM to FM. A farmer phoned up and angrily yelled something like, "Whats this FM stuff? Me tractor only has an AM radio. If you move to FM, you have lost this customer for good. You know where you can stick your fangled technology!" and promptly hung up.

About 30 years ago, I heard an old ham radio operator on air saying "These transceivers with digital displays are not real radio and should be banned. You have to have valves and a plate to tune to be real radio."

I ran a TV antenna business many years ago as most of the VHF signals were moving to UHF. One know-it-all farmer from Milawa bought a new antenna but refused to pay $60 for installation saying it was a ripoff, and he refused to listen to any advice, as being a farmer he knew what he was doing. He said he didn't need coax because coax is a ripoff. He later told me the antenna was crap and he wanted his money back. I discovered he was using a single barbed fencing wire as the feed line from the antenna, through an open window, into the screw connection on the balun; and the antenna was pointing to the ground. .

Peoples' adoption to new and better technology is like a bell curve. I don't think society should be spending time and money catering for those at one sigma who just don't get it.

[slicendice]

New tech is always welcome as long as it brings some advantages and more convenience over the old.

I don't think analog radio tech will ever be completely abandoned, because it's cheap , simple, quite easy to implement from scrap parts and is quite reliable too.

[TimFox]

In the US we have HD Radio https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio which simulcasts digital and analog. Most cars made within the last five years can receive both, at least higher end cars.

According to that Wikipedia article:

"As of May 2009, there were more stations in the world on the air with HD Radio technology than any other digital radio technology. More than 1,700 stations covering approximately 84% of the United States[4] are broadcasting with this technology, and more than 1,000 HD2 and HD3 multicast channels are on the air."

And

"The FCC has not indicated any intent to force off analog radio broadcasts as it has with analog television broadcasts,[1] as it would not result in the recovery of any radio spectrum rights which could be sold. Thus, there is no deadline by which consumers must buy an HD Radio receiver. In addition, there are many more analog AM/FM radio receivers than there were analog televisions, and many of these are car stereos or portable units that cannot be upgraded."

My auto has a radio that defaults to HD Radio, but I always defeat it.  I found that when I was in motion, the signal would often drop out or repeat roughly one word, which is very annoying.  Defeating HD gets me back to FM which never does the repeat thing.

[ovnr]

Peoples' adoption to new and better technology is like a bell curve. I don't think society should be spending time and money catering for those at one sigma who just don't get it.

The thing is, DVB was a massive improvement on analog TV. DAB isn't a massive improvement on FM, and the coverage is an especially big part of it - you don't cry over not being able to get TV signals in your car, but a lot of people like having the radio available. And I'd rather take fewer channels that are usable than more channels which aren't.

Also, it annoys me that you can't even buy the parts to build a DAB radio.

[madires]

Also, it annoys me that you can't even buy the parts to build a DAB radio.

Yes, we can
- http://www.silabs.com/products/audio/digital-radio/Pages/default.aspx
- http://www.digikey.com/products/en/rf-if-and-rfid/rf-receivers/870?k=Si4684

What bothers me is why only a few car multimedia systems include DAB/DAB+. DAB is around for several years and politicians have made clear that FM will be shut down. It's known for some time. But car manufacturers ignored that, still selling cars with AM/FM only. If you got an older car with a nice DIN mount you can simply replace the old radio. But with an expensive and fixed multimedia system you have to get some ugly DAB adapter.

Another point is emercency broadcasting. It's easy and inexpensive to set up a small FM station for a region. DAB makes it more expensive. AM (MF) is nearly dead, because huge antennas and high power transmitters are expensive in operation. Governments told people for years to have a radio for emergencies. All those radios have to be replaced.

[Seekonk]

Now you know how Armstrong felt.

[Delta]

AM / MediumWave is alive and well in the UK. TalkSPORT and BBC Radio 5 Live have millions of listeners on good ol' AM. Long may AM reign!

[sync]

What bothers me is why only a few car multimedia systems include DAB/DAB+. DAB is around for several years and politicians have made clear that FM will be shut down.

... and the DAB receivers in Germany are useless now, because DAB is shut down (while FM is still alive ). You need now DAB+. Maybe in 5-10 years you need DAB++ which would be also incompatible with DAB+. That's one of the problems.

[SantaClaw]

What bothers me is why only a few car multimedia systems include DAB/DAB+. DAB is around for several years and politicians have made clear that FM will be shut down.

... and the DAB receivers in Germany are useless now, because DAB is shut down (while FM is still alive ). You need now DAB+. Maybe in 5-10 years you need DAB++ which would be also incompatible with DAB+. That's one of the problems.

When the FM net starts it's shutdown in Norway tomorrow, all transmissions will go from DAB to DAB+, so all DAB radios are null & void... lol

[MT]

I'm a post man, delivering mail along 96 km of Norways border towards Russia.

I have FM coverage just about 99% of the road, with a few holes right next to big hills and some valleys, it will cut for about 2 minutes at most.

With DAB, it's much the same, except the last 30 km on my route furthest away from the transmitter has no coverage at all.

For years and years Sweeds used to be able to hear NRK bordcasts on the other side of caledonian mountain range and Norwegians used to hear SR bordcasts, this was very useful if you where located in this border region, i doubth this will be possible anymore even if Sweeds buys DAB+ radios
to much terrain blockade.

[SantaClaw]

I'm a post man, delivering mail along 96 km of Norways border towards Russia.

I have FM coverage just about 99% of the road, with a few holes right next to big hills and some valleys, it will cut for about 2 minutes at most.

With DAB, it's much the same, except the last 30 km on my route furthest away from the transmitter has no coverage at all.

For years and years Sweeds used to be able to hear NRK bordcasts on the other side of caledonian mountain range and Norwegians used to hear SR bordcasts, this was very useful if you where located in this border region, i doubth this will be possible anymore even if Sweeds buys DAB+ radios
to much terrain blockade.

You can listen to all the public radios in Norway from here I believe: https://radio.nrk.no/

[raspberrypi]

What do they do with the unused spectrum? 100Mhz has great line of sight reception in buildings and obstacles.

[ovnr]

What do they do with the unused spectrum? 100Mhz has great line of sight reception in buildings and obstacles.

For now? Nothing, as there will still be privately-owned stations operating. Also, the whole spectrum will forevermore be plagued by tiny FM transmitters.

Incidentally, first batch of transmitters are now down.

[Ampera]

What do they do with the unused spectrum? 100Mhz has great line of sight reception in buildings and obstacles.

For now? Nothing, as there will still be privately-owned stations operating. Also, the whole spectrum will forevermore be plagued by tiny FM transmitters.

Incidentally, first batch of transmitters are now down.

Wait, I thought this was the end of ALL FM radio transmissions. So it's just NRK transmissions? I mean at that rate you've become the United States. We don't really have a single national broadcaster like the BBC or NRK. We have NBC, CBS, Turner, ABC, FOX, Disney, Discovery, and a few others. The closest we have to the BBC or NRK is maybe PBS? We also have CSpan which covers government related broadcasts, and CNN which is a national news network.