Author Topic: NSA spying capability  (Read 33811 times)

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Offline Sigmoid

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2014, 07:08:21 pm »
Come on guys, feeling anything but some kind of weird adoration and pride at the state of Anglo-Saxon sigint is irrational and unpatriotic. :)
For one, even if you aren't a US citizen, if you're a Westerner, or otherwise a member of a secular, West-friendly nation, then all this technology goes into your safety.
Also, if you are still pissed off about the stuff spies do these days, there's not much you can do about it, is there? So just enjoy the show and stay out of criminal conspiracies. ;)
 

Offline Homer J Simpson

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2014, 07:18:04 pm »

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

Just a thought.

 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2014, 07:18:39 pm »
Bad thing about backdoors you never know who will use them. Who wouldn't want more backdoors and weakened security features in their devices?
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2014, 07:50:53 pm »
Come on guys, feeling anything but some kind of weird adoration and pride at the state of Anglo-Saxon sigint is irrational and unpatriotic. :)
For one, even if you aren't a US citizen, if you're a Westerner, or otherwise a member of a secular, West-friendly nation, then all this technology goes into your safety.
Also, if you are still pissed off about the stuff spies do these days, there's not much you can do about it, is there? So just enjoy the show and stay out of criminal conspiracies. ;)

re: For one, even if you aren't a US citizen, if you're a Westerner, or otherwise a member of a secular, West-friendly nation, then all this technology goes into your safety.

I would not make the assumption that it merely goes into our safety.  Power begets power.  Power corrupts.

Don't forget, there was a senate/congress hearing about IRS (tax authority of USA) targeting opposition groups.  Not one single opposition group was authorized during the past election whereas a senior IRS staff personally back-dated the late application of a supporting group and authorized this supporting group - while no opposition group got authorized.  That such back-dating happened, and that opposing groups were asked the "contents of the prayers" are testimony in the public records.  This is her (this IRS senior staffer is a she) own testimony in the US Congress/Senate and not hear-say stuff.  This is now a closed case because our own "law enforcement" proclaimed there is nothing to investigate.  I used to think "back dating" a federal document is committing as fraud against the federal government and thus a crime.  But I suppose "it depends".

If the IRS can be used against opposition, why not NSA and it's technologies?

I would not for a moment assume that this is for my safety alone.  I am sure it started as that, but if you believe Spiegel's articles, it certainly did not stop there.


re: Also, if you are still pissed off about the stuff spies do these days, there's not much you can do about it, is there?

You are also wrong about there is "nothing we can do about it".  We can stop misusing technology.  We can stop whoever is misusing NSA.  In Nixon's impeachment paper for congress to consider, one of the clause was using IRS against his opponents.  With freedom comes responsibility.  We elect our leaders and we must make sure our leaders do the right thing.  The technology is there today - we can phone our elected reps, or email them, or whatever.  So you can use technology to stop technology abuse.

Technology itself is not evil nor is it intrinsically moral - or not.  It is how we use technology.  I think fusion power is our future.  But fusion power is also what drives nuclear bomb.

We can use technology to do the most despicable thing we can imagine, or use it to do the most beneficial thing we can imagine.  Technology give us the power to do things.  What things we choose to do with the technology is up to us.  The technology is merely as moral as we are - no more, no less.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 07:55:26 pm by Rick Law »
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2014, 01:18:14 am »
Come on guys, feeling anything but some kind of weird adoration and pride at the state of Anglo-Saxon sigint is irrational and unpatriotic. :)
For one, even if you aren't a US citizen, if you're a Westerner, or otherwise a member of a secular, West-friendly nation, then all this technology goes into your safety.
Also, if you are still pissed off about the stuff spies do these days, there's not much you can do about it, is there? So just enjoy the show and stay out of criminal conspiracies. ;)

What?! Are you serious?

Hmm... I don't think this forum is suitable for the reply I'd like to make. Especially since geoffs is playing delete-undelete-delete games again. Now one post I made in this thread and he deleted is restored, but his announcement of that deletion and my reply to him are deleted. Gee, and I wasn't even rude. Ah well, you know where to see it.

Anyway, to address the "It's all for your safety" point, no it isn't. It's mostly about commercial industrial espionage. For instance this report:
  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/26/edward-snowden-nsa-industrial-sabotage
  Edward Snowden tells German TV that NSA is involved in industrial espionage.

This has been going on for decades. Even back when the 'big secret' snooping program was called Echelon, which involved NATO countries capturing and analyzing all the comms they could. (Which was about 98% of all electronic comms, including domestic and international traffic, and I have that figure from someone who worked as head of a high level Sydney branch Intercepts Division.) In 2001 the French/European government held an inquiry into Echelon, and concluded that the US was using Echelon as a tool of industrial espionage against French economic interests. Bear in mind that France was/is a member of NATO, and Echelon was _supposed_ to be a NATO security system.

Btw, the current vagueness over whether the NSA captures phone voice conversations, or just the call records, is disinformation. Even back in 2001 the spy agencies were automatically in real time running ALL voice traffic through voice to text then keyword searches. For the keywords Echelon used a system of 'dictionaries', in which each NATO member provided a list of terms of interest, then these were combined into one dictionary which was distributed to all intercept sites. To get around the legal issues in each member country, the intercept sites in each country were declared foreign diplomatic areas, ie in (say) London the sites would be US or German diplomatic ground. When conversations of interest were captured, the Echelon system would forward them to local national authorities as diplomatic intelligence. 'Information received from a friendly foreign nation' - no legal problems.

Another detail was that any communication that got a dictionary keyword hit, regardless of whether later human analysis decided it was significant or not, was stored *permanently*.  It's hard to imagine how much stuff there must be in that store by now.

Our taxes at work, 'protecting' us. Sigh.

"there's not much you can do about it, is there? So just enjoy the show and stay out of criminal conspiracies."

Pfft.
Oh, I'm not sure of your intention. Do you mean the (solidly established) unconstitutional spying activities are criminal, or acts of opposing them are criminal?
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Offline scientist

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2014, 01:22:40 am »
One might consider he was being sarcastic.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2014, 02:43:27 am »
Brother, can you spare a diamond?

"Scientist" reply posting reminded me of something - by his name "Scientist".

Technology is also the solution to the misuse of technology in this spying.  I recall an article I read a few weeks back.  Can't find it, but find probably an updated one:

Link to article China in race to build first code-breaking quantum supercomputer:
http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/technology/article/1401755/china-race-create-first-quantum-code-breaking-supercomputer
I think the author should focus more on the work with "entangled pair" that could make the encryption unbreakable.  But he did wrote something on that a month or so back which I was searching for just now and couldn't find it.

Do a search for "China Quantum Computing" and you will find a lot of references to the Chinese work.  It looks like they have been at it since 2010 and making progress:
(2010 article Summary:) Most candidate systems for quantum computing work only at very low temperatures. Now a team of researchers from China may have a warmer solution. The team is exploring the capabilities of diamond nitrogen vacancy materials.
(article itself:)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100629170945.htm

However, what the Chinese government can do to prevent others from intercepting their message, us average joe cannot do.  I looked up the name of the head guy a few weeks back when I first saw the article.  He is no average Joe.  Cavendish Laboratory/Cambridge University with quite a long list of accolades.  They just may get there before others.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 02:45:30 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2014, 07:33:06 pm »
Why do you think high speed DSA equipment is a prohibited export? It can scan fast enough to get the chirps of data and show they are not just random noise.
 

Offline daveshah

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2014, 09:08:22 pm »
I notice that one of the devices runs Linux. I wonder if the NSA are obeying the GPL?
 

Offline daqq

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2014, 10:42:58 am »
Quote
Come on guys, feeling anything but some kind of weird adoration and pride at the state of Anglo-Saxon sigint is irrational and unpatriotic. :)
    For one, even if you aren't a US citizen, if you're a Westerner, or otherwise a member of a secular, West-friendly nation, then all this technology goes into your safety.
Not sure, if troll, joking or insane. In THEORY, you are right. In practice you are not. This would work if you can guarantee that all the employees and leaders have a completely honest, incorruptible and most importantly GOOD (by your definition) agenda, that the chain of command is straightforward, simple and clean of outside influences, AND posts are only occupied by intelligent, competent, rational and well meaning people. Can you say that about ANY larger part of your/any government, let alone the whole of it? Can you say with all honesty, that you completely and utterly trust your government to do the right thing?

If so, you are either naive, or extremely lucky to be living in... I dunno, Candyland Beyond The Rainbow? I know I can't say that about my government.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Offline nihilism

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2014, 11:12:15 am »
Is anyone on this forum actually concerned that the NSA might be spying on them? Do you really think you're interesting enough?
 

Offline wilheldp

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2014, 06:15:11 pm »
I know for a fact that the NSA is collecting information on me, but I can't imagine they'd be interested enough in me to actually analyze that data.  Even if they did, they wouldn't find anything nefarious.  Collecting and storing the information on everybody in the world isn't costing the NSA more than a power bill and extra hard drives at this point (since they just completed their new data center).  I'm sure they are also running all kinds of algorithms on the collected data to weed out the interesting bits.  It doesn't overly concern me, but it is blatantly unconstitutional in America.  Not that anybody in Washington DC gives half a shit about what is Constitutional these days.
 

Offline JoeO

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2014, 06:49:36 pm »
The sad part is that the Russians handed the Boston Bombers to the Feds on a silver platter and the feds essentially ignored the warnings.
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Today, only 26,000 remain.
 

Offline Dago

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2014, 07:28:07 pm »
Is anyone on this forum actually concerned that the NSA might be spying on them? Do you really think you're interesting enough?

This is like encouraging everyone to go hit someone on the street, as long as it is not you. It is not about "you" it is about everyone...
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Offline JoeO

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 08:50:36 pm »
Is anyone on this forum actually concerned that the NSA might be spying on them? Do you really think you're interesting enough?
I have read this exact statement on many forums.  I always ask the same questions......

Why didn't you fill in all of the information about yourself on this forum?  Why didn't you use your real name instead of "nihilism"?  You posted NOTHING about yourself.  NOTHING!!!
You did not even put your gender or age or country you are from.

What are you afraid of?
The day Al Gore was born there were 7,000 polar bears on Earth.
Today, only 26,000 remain.
 

Offline wilheldp

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2014, 10:23:31 pm »
The fact that wiping their asses with the constitution doesn't concern you isn't very encouraging either.

Who said it doesn't concern me?  I used to be an alarmist and tried to encourage people to vote for 3rd party candidates to try to fix the system from the inside.  I guess I'm just a defeatist now.  I don't think it's possible to reverse the course our government is on.  I'm just waiting for it to inevitably collapse under its own weight.  Eventually, the rest of the world is going to stop taking the dollar since it's printed on toilet paper now.  When that happens, the USA is going to fall...hard. 

Don't think it can happen?  Neither did the Romans.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2014, 10:00:27 am »
00300 78389 89535 87019 49073 32472 91259 86989 38094 38898 66585 89960
0030330962 49517 75834 29851 43682 42472 43467 40719 15673 06409 54277
00301 27755 98185 29481 03559 60851 33868 56611 92166 30082 12600 85741
00306 87033 67676 18443 16011 86097 12379 57368 00502 37078 76809 14376
00304 57508 66911 89708 63482 24236 98011 96177 72072 90160 89094 28736

 :-DD :-DD :-DD

 

Offline johansen

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2014, 11:07:27 am »
Yes they would. Everyone has broken the law at least once, and even if they can't find evidence of that they can surely find something to embarrass you with. Keep in mind they have access to all your communications and your location any time you have your phone on you or are driving. Even if you really are whiter than white they could just invent some stuff because no-one can check it and if prosecuted you wouldn't even be allowed to see it.

Not that prosecution is necessary or even desirable. Blackmail and threats are easier. Look at how they tried to handle the Snowden leaks, threatening and harassing journalists. Imagine what it's like for people they aren't even slightly afraid of.

you got it right there.

A recent example is a woman who left the Air Force in 2010? after trying to debunk the chem trailing conspiracy fact... she discovered the US Air Force buys the aluminum oxide and other chemicals through their over the counter requisition system... so 3 year long story in two sentences: she stopped approving the tons and tons of the shit until they would tell her what they needed it for... and she very quickly discovered she's just a pawn. after being moved to another duty station, the  CO calls her into the office, says: "i can involuntarily detain you for 120 days for a mental health evaluation. Who would take care of your kids?"

  When that happens, the USA is going to fall...hard. 
Don't think it can happen?  Neither did the Romans.

when it happens, the sheep will blame the shepherds who said don't follow your friends off the cliff.
btw: America's welfare class today is as large as the entire population was ~100 years ago.
lack of food won't even be the first problem this time around. what is it, 30% of the population is on psychotropic drugs?
 

Offline BBQ

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2014, 04:30:49 pm »
Since only 1% of the document leak has been published, I wonder if they are holding on to some really mind-boggling stuff. And to even start imagining the ultra-mind-boggling stuff being in development right now...

This is the approved part of the leak. Crazy stuff!
 

Offline scientist

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2014, 06:18:31 pm »

A recent example is a woman who left the Air Force in 2010? after trying to debunk the chem trailing conspiracy fact... she discovered the US Air Force buys the aluminum oxide and other chemicals through their over the counter requisition system... so 3 year long story in two sentences: she stopped approving the tons and tons of the shit until they would tell her what they needed it for... and she very quickly discovered she's just a pawn. after being moved to another duty station, the  CO calls her into the office, says: "i can involuntarily detain you for 120 days for a mental health evaluation. Who would take care of your kids?"


I've had it with this chemtrail  :bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit: . Who buys aluminium oxide "over the counter"!?! What the #$@ does that even mean? The cashier hands them a 5-ton carton of the stuff over the counter?

Aluminium oxide is what rubies and sapphires are made of... a better conspiracy theory would be that the Army is selling gems to Middle Easterners to sponsor their endeavours overseas.

The bioavailability of aluminium oxide by consumption is less than 0.1%, according to NIH, (source:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782734/), and inhalation in Al2O3-concentrated environments (like al2o3 factories) is about 2%. Do you work in an aluminum oxide factory? Then shut up.

The assumption that dust or solute, dumped in aerosolized form into the jet stream will somehow get over the land of the US and "mind control" people is absolutely batshit. If you knew anything about climatology you would be fully aware that air 10 miles above you has rarely left that area, and the air 100 miles up can cross the globe in a matter of minutes.

I will be pretty disappointed if I see the conspiracy theory nuts start flocking to this forum to discuss bullshit. Stay on topic (NSA) and you will be fine.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2014, 07:45:07 pm »
I will be pretty disappointed if I see the conspiracy theory nuts start flocking to this forum to discuss bullshit.
Be careful, there... Do you mean that you are comfortable with the coincidence theory nuts bullshit (using your own wording)?

After all, it is widely known that:

Do you want an authoritarian scientific position on chemtrails?
According Dr. Jaspery Kirkby, a CERN researcher,
  • "There's plenty of evidence that large regions of the climate are lacking sufficient aerosol to form clouds. Contrails are a well known example of that. These are not smoke trails, these are clouds which are seeded by jets dumping aerosols into the upper atmosphere."
Directly from the CERN Document Server: http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1181073


Sorry for the off-topic,
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Offline ron

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2014, 08:12:32 pm »
Disney & NSA Indoctrination (3min) 
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2014, 08:41:33 pm »
That video, purporting to show 'chemical trails', in fact depicts aircraft jettisoning fuel and possibly some cloud seeding too.
Fuel jettisoning is usually done at mid altitudes, to reduce landing weight after an aircraft malfunction necessitating a return to the departure airfield. It can take an hour or so, to dump 60 tons of fuel.
It is normally done in a specific authorized area, above 5000 feet, so that the evaporating fuel doesn't reach the ground.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2014, 10:18:57 pm »
That was a film of a plane dumping fuel and loosing height rapidly judging from the flap and air brake operation.
When the Victor tankers were operating from Marham I used to see that quite regularly, apart from the dumping to land they leaked like a sieve.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: NSA spying capability
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2014, 10:47:24 pm »
00300 78389 89535 87019 49073 32472 91259 86989 38094 38898 66585 89960
0030330962 49517 75834 29851 43682 42472 43467 40719 15673 06409 54277
00301 27755 98185 29481 03559 60851 33868 56611 92166 30082 12600 85741
00306 87033 67676 18443 16011 86097 12379 57368 00502 37078 76809 14376
00304 57508 66911 89708 63482 24236 98011 96177 72072 90160 89094 28736

Roger. We are sending the drones.
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