General > General Technical Chat
NVidia 3000 series.
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paulca:

--- Quote from: MadTux on October 04, 2020, 12:17:52 pm ---Has all the money to buy shitloads of new hardware but no money for second soldering iron.  |O
2 good Wellers/JBCs in each hand and you could probably just lift the cap out, with enough preheat on the board.

--- End quote ---

I thought it would have been neater if he used a chisel.
tszaboo:

--- Quote from: paulca on September 26, 2020, 04:14:50 pm ---It's suspected, though not confirmed that the spec allows for cheaper large caps to be used in place of an array of 8 MLCC caps.   This is the backside of the board under the GPU core for decoupling and power stability.

The founders cards have 4 blocks of cheaper caps and 2 blocks of MLCC.   The 3rd party cards which have only one set of MLCCs or none at all are crashing at peak GPU Boost clocks.

The issue has been blamed on NVidia keeping the drivers for the 3000 series secret, even from the 3rd party board manufacturers until after they had to start building the cards.  It seems there may have been a miss match in the peak boost clocks the driver pushes and what the "corners cut" AIB cards can handle.

If this is indeed the case, the affected first gen AIB cards will almost undoubted receive a BIOS/Driver upgrade to clock down their cores so the peak boost does not crash them.  In the mean time people are being advised, if this is an issue for them to offset their core clocks to -100Mhz or drop their power limit below 100% to limit the peak boost clocks.

The rework will take months in the factories but expect updated models with marketing about these caps plastered all over them, "Fully MLCC, Gaming Ready" and similar BS.... and more RGB

--- End quote ---
I dont think price has anything to do with why the cards are crashing. Poscaps are good, high quality caps. But their impedance vs frequency is different than MLCCs. They are probably higher capacity, but they have higher impedance at higher frequencies. Designing a power delivery network for the ~250A, these monster GPUs are using is anything but trivial.
But obviously, not enough testing was performed. 
And yes, the general public will conclude, that MLCC= good POSCAP = BAD.

They seem to butchered most aspects of this launch. Not enough cards, delayed review because shipping, delayed drivers for board partners, unstable hardware. And now they delay the 3070 cards because they expect bigger sales.
paulca:

--- Quote from: NANDBlog on October 06, 2020, 01:31:49 pm ---I dont think price has anything to do with why the cards are crashing. Poscaps are good, high quality caps. But their impedance vs frequency is different than MLCCs. They are probably higher capacity, but they have higher impedance at higher frequencies. Designing a power delivery network for the ~250A, these monster GPUs are using is anything but trivial.

And yes, the general public will conclude, that MLCC= good POSCAP = BAD.

--- End quote ---

Maybe the price was just an assumption, but 6 or 8 MLCC placements/components versus one higher capacity poscap ... surely end to end, not just BOM it would be cheaper to go with the single component?

But... yes.  I fully expect to see PC Gamer components being marketed as having 100% MLCC capacitors FOR THE WIN!  And if you dare tell them they are full of shit they'll spray poorly grounded out of context nonesense at you.
(Rant!  I bought a new Wifi router.  I decided to throw some money at it, go for £150-200.  Was considering a glitzy Nighthawk, but paused and decided to look for less bling more features and less marketing bullshit... but got distracted and came back and bought the Nighthawk R8000.  It's absolutely f****** rubbish, pos.  Router?  It doesn't even support proper DHCP, DNS, static routes, SNMP and it changes it's static, manually assigned LAN IP because a DNS server in DHCP had the same subnet....  Yea.  Randomly updates it's ip address and subnet to disappear off your network without a MAC Scan.  Had to factory reset the thing 5 times, before I flashed open source firmware on it and ... it's still stupid as shiny black plank.  Waste of money.), but it was FOR GAMERS!


--- Quote ---But obviously, not enough testing was performed. 

They seem to butchered most aspects of this launch. Not enough cards, delayed review because shipping, delayed drivers for board partners, unstable hardware. And now they delay the 3070 cards because they expect bigger sales.

--- End quote ---

The not releasing drivers for testing early.  The not actually implementing their own reference design and then not really testing it with the drivers, but expecting the AIBs to.... then give them the driver a few weeks before launch.
The allowing bots to buy 90% of the cards and inflate the market.
All annoying, but fun to watch.  I will wait till the dust settles and consider a 3070
Howardlong:

--- Quote from: paulca on September 09, 2020, 06:17:47 pm ---Go VR man :)  Reverb or Oculus.


--- End quote ---

Well the VR update for MSFS came out today. I just did a circuit at my home base, it’s a completely different experience, overall much for the better. Just wow in fact, with a couple of caveats.

I use it with a Reverb G2, Honeycomb yoke, Saitek throttle quadrant, and Thrustmaster rudder pedals. I have the elevator trim set up on the left yoke up/down switches.

Mostly the immersion is excellent, although there is no motion controller functionality. I use a mouse to point to do things like the strobes, pitot heat, parking brake and flaps etc, as I’m not familiar enough with the various controller settings I set up: with the headset on, you’d have to fumble about blindly, thus I use the mouse instead.

When setting up the journey, no on screen keyboard comes up so you have to lift the headset to find and use the physical keyboard.

Machine is a stock i7-8700k, 32GB RAM, 1TB NVME SSD and RTX 2080 TI, Asrock Z370 Gaming ITX/ac mobo, all in a tiny Sliger SM560 mini ITX case.

The frame rate isn’t particularly special, but the VR immersion far outweighs running it on a monitor for me, and I am using the out of the box settings.

I burst out laughing while taxiing off the runway after landing, when my cat started tapping me on the shoulder looking for some attention: the immersion was such that it felt like someone was sitting in the back tapping me on the shoulder.
wraper:

--- Quote from: paulca on September 26, 2020, 04:14:50 pm ---It's suspected, though not confirmed that the spec allows for cheaper large caps to be used in place of an array of 8 MLCC caps.   This is the backside of the board under the GPU core for decoupling and power stability.

The founders cards have 4 blocks of cheaper caps and 2 blocks of MLCC.

--- End quote ---
LOW ESR SP-CAP is not cheaper than 10 MLCC. At least when looking at publicly available distributor prices. Not to say some manufacturers used higher capacitance than suggested by reference design and still kept SP-CAPs.


 
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