Author Topic: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes  (Read 5116 times)

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Offline magicTopic starter

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As we all know, National Semiconductor had been assimilated ten years ago and the Borg soon adopted a policy of pretending that their archenemy had never even existed in the first place. National's website went down, and with it a wealth of documentation.

Some of those documents have been assimilated and continue to be available, but in addition to defacing them with their logo, Borg Corporation also removed many part numbers and package options which they have discontinued over the course of the decade (a common nuisance that applies to Borg's own products too). Even application notes haven't been spared: they edited them to make it look like all of National's inventions were their own, which is not only historically inaccurate but also sloppily executed and leads to absurd statements like "OP07 has been discontinued by Borg Co", which of course isn't true at all.
 |O

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anyone having preserved the full library of National's documentation as it stood in 2011, but there are sources that come close.

1. The Internet Archive.
These guys scrap and archive lots of random websites, and they appear to have copies of most files from national.com. Probably the most convenient way of downloading documentation is going to http://web.archive.org and requesting the desired PDF file directly. The URL formats used by National are shown below, where XX is the first two letters of the part number, XXYYY is the full part number, and NNN is the application note or linear brief number.

Code: [Select]
http://national.com/ds/XX/XXYYY.pdf
http://national.com/an/AN/AN-NNN.pdf
http://national.com/an/LB/LB-NNN.pdf

Examples:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://national.com/ds/LM/LMC660.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://national.com/an/AN/AN-A.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://national.com/an/LB/LB-17.pdf

Many files are archived in several versions. Pick whichever you like most, but don't bother with anything dated 2012 or later - these are redirects to borg.com, 404 errors or other garbage.

2. Datasheet archive websites
They are usable and there is many of them. Worth trying, but sometimes you will find "assimilated" versions, very old versions, low quality scans of databooks, PDFs with advertisements of part distributors, maybe even malware and viruses ::)

3. The Bitsavers archive (old databooks)
http://bitsavers.org/components/national/_dataBooks/
This site is a huge archive of documentation related to electronics and early computers. They have scans of complete databooks from National and many other manufacturers. These are monsters with hundreds of pages and tens of megabytes, but sometimes the only source available when it comes to very old parts, discontinued long before National had a website and PDF datasheets.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 11:38:59 am by magic »
 
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I have these things called books, it sounds silly having all the data sheets permanently imprinted on dead wood. But hey, I control it. AN-31 is a classic everyone should have to hand.
 
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Offline David Hess

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I agree about Texas Instruments essentially defacing history.  It is disgraceful, but I never expected better from them.  They did the same with Burr-Brown.

There are many of National's old application notes which I was never able to find even before Texas Instruments.  I only know they exist because of references to them.
 

Offline magicTopic starter

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I edited the original post with URL pattern for Linear Briefs.

There are many of National's old application notes which I was never able to find even before Texas Instruments.  I only know they exist because of references to them.
Which ones?
I have had good success finding very old ANs in scanned application books at Bitsavers and several late, 21st century ANs at Archive.org. I think these two sources cover close to 100% of them all.

edit
Maybe not. I just checked the oldest application books I have, many numbers are missing. I have no idea what AN-9 was.


But hey, I control it.
This is the key.
I don't have dead tree books, but I save everything I download.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 05:03:57 pm by magic »
 

Offline David Hess

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Maybe not. I just checked the oldest application books I have, many numbers are missing. I have no idea what AN-9 was.

Some I found in the earliest National application books, but not all of them.  AN-9 sounds familiar.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Added the OP to the HP Journal and alike thread, thank you.   :-+
 
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Offline magicTopic starter

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Offline RoGeorge

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Sorry, both links are gone.  :-//
Found a 3rd working one and updated that post, same filename, no idea if it's the same content

Offline magicTopic starter

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Sorry, both links are gone.  :-//
Found a 3rd working one and updated that post, same filename, no idea if it's the same content
It appears to have been captured by archive.org a few years ago.
That's why you save everything on your own disk ;)
 
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Offline Benta

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I take old National datasheets with a grain of salt.
They're often incomplete, and also influenced by outside commercial pressure.

The best example is the LM1881 data sheet (and successors), which puts the part in a very bad light.
National caved in completely to Macrovision and Big Media.
The slow response times in the data sheet have no connection to reality, it's actually really fast (and was thus a danger to the movie industry).

That's my interpretation. Otherwise, why make a great device look bad?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 11:01:10 pm by Benta »
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2021, 07:12:13 am »
Having good technical content readily available isn't the way today's sales is intended to work: They want you the speak to their "experts" which in turn recommend you some chips that are the "best" for you. What they recommend wouldn't necessarily be the same as a well informed customer would decide to use.
Why point you to myriads of application of e.g. the TL072 if there's a whole lot of newer, more specialized and more expensive chips available that they can recommend for your needs?
Safety devices hinder evolution
 
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Offline jh15

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2021, 03:10:14 pm »
When I think of tossing my 70's and 80's data books, I see something like this and hang onto them.
Tek 575 curve trcr top shape, Tek 535, Tek 465. Tek 545 Hickok clone, Tesla Model S,  Ohio Scientific c24P SBC, c-64's from club days, Giant electric bicycle, Rigol stuff, Heathkit AR-15's. Heathkit ET- 3400a trainer&interface. Starlink pizza.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2021, 04:36:52 pm »
When I think of tossing my 70's and 80's data books, I see something like this and hang onto them.

Some of those old data books are available as scanned PDF documents...  Hopefully, one day, they all will be.   Paper has a finite life...
 

Offline magicTopic starter

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2021, 06:51:28 am »
Somebody mentioned Burr-Brown.

Application Bulletins as of August 2000:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000830091506/http://www.burr-brown.com/applications/ABs.html

It's also possible to get product catalogs from 2000 and some earlier years but most datasheets aren't available.

OTOH, Bitsavers has the 1995 databook. In addition to complete specifications, this databook contains die photographs, which may aid in identification of AliBay mystery meat ICs ;)

Why point you to myriads of application of e.g. the TL072 if there's a whole lot of newer, more specialized and more expensive chips available that they can recommend for your needs?
It gets better. They will sell you a "next generation" TL072H which is actually some rebranded RRO CMOS opamp :D
« Last Edit: October 11, 2021, 07:11:58 am by magic »
 
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Offline srb1954

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2021, 07:36:52 am »
I edited the original post with URL pattern for Linear Briefs.

Which ones?
I have had good success finding very old ANs in scanned application books at Bitsavers and several late, 21st century ANs at Archive.org. I think these two sources cover close to 100% of them all.

edit
Maybe not. I just checked the oldest application books I have, many numbers are missing. I have no idea what AN-9 was.
AN-9 is omitted from the Feb 1973 Linear Applications Handbook, the earliest NS applications handbook I possess.

It must have been for a very early NS device as it sits between AN-8 New Uses for the LM100 Regulator (dated June 1968) and AN-10 Low Power Operational LH001 Amplifier (dated December 1968).

Perhaps it was for an NS device that was withdrawn from the market very early in its life.

 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2021, 11:29:47 am »
When I think of tossing my 70's and 80's data books, I see something like this and hang onto them.

Some of those old data books are available as scanned PDF documents...  Hopefully, one day, they all will be.   Paper has a finite life...

Digital has will have a much shorter life unless it is duplicated onto new media ad-infinitum. The Dead Sea Scolls are around 2,000 years old - some are 2,400 years old. Don't be surprised if most of the digitised datasheets from today will have disappeared from existence in 50 years. Magnetic media, digital media etc, have a very short lifespan compared to paper. You only need eyes to read paper. What are you going to read digital storage with?

Newspapers and books are gradually disappearing. I can see in 1,000 years that if there are any humans left, they will look back and see a big black hole for our existence in the 21st century. All our buildings will be long gone. All the digital media will be gone. Most of our technology will be gone.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2021, 04:45:10 pm »
When I think of tossing my 70's and 80's data books, I see something like this and hang onto them.

Some of those old data books are available as scanned PDF documents...  Hopefully, one day, they all will be.   Paper has a finite life...

Digital has will have a much shorter life unless it is duplicated onto new media ad-infinitum. The Dead Sea Scolls are around 2,000 years old - some are 2,400 years old. Don't be surprised if most of the digitised datasheets from today will have disappeared from existence in 50 years. Magnetic media, digital media etc, have a very short lifespan compared to paper. You only need eyes to read paper. What are you going to read digital storage with?

Newspapers and books are gradually disappearing. I can see in 1,000 years that if there are any humans left, they will look back and see a big black hole for our existence in the 21st century. All our buildings will be long gone. All the digital media will be gone. Most of our technology will be gone.

There will always be archive.org!  :D
 

Offline magicTopic starter

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2021, 10:10:55 am »
To add further injury to insult, surely I cannot be the only one that finds the actual TI web site's "search" function to be basically nearly uselessly bad.  Many, many, many times have I entered part numbers, document numbers, keywords, etc. which are 100% undoubtedly things that DO correspond to actual TI originated (not even only borged BB / NS / UNITRODE / CHIPCON...) parts / documents / articles / packages / ... and the search either gives no results or completely uselessly wrong ones.

Here's one example, copied right out of the official TI literature code for one of their 2016 documents:
"SLYU036".
Nada.
"SLYC147"
"SWRU120D"
SWRU120"
Two remarks about TI literature numbers:

Firstly, they can usually be found on TI.com through search engines, of course. Secondly, if there is a letter at the end, it's the document revision number. So SWRU120D means SWRU120 rev. D.

And this is very handy, because particular revisions can also be found through search engines on other websites like component distributors. So when TI does something like dropping LM358 in DIP package and only offering them in micro BGA and of course removes any mention of DIP from the datasheet as they always do, it's simply a matter of taking the full literature number, "decrementing" the final letter and boom, you have a keyword to look for the earlier revision. I have done it several times with success so far.

(Of course the problem wouldn't exist in the first place if TI didn't remove information about obsolete parts and packages or maintained an organized archive of their current and past datasheets, but that's not how they roll).
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 10:15:21 am by magic »
 
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Offline peter-h

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2021, 05:23:47 pm »
I have maybe 100kg of data books going back to the 1980s, which anyone can have if they want to collect them. I have not referenced any of them in 20+ years, except for nostalgia purposes. One day they will all get chucked in the skip, which seems a waste.

South east UK, on the coast. PM me if interested :)
Z80 Z180 Z280 Z8 S8 8031 8051 H8/300 H8/500 80x86 90S1200 32F417
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2021, 04:04:43 am »
I edited the original post with URL pattern for Linear Briefs.

Which ones?
I have had good success finding very old ANs in scanned application books at Bitsavers and several late, 21st century ANs at Archive.org. I think these two sources cover close to 100% of them all.

edit
Maybe not. I just checked the oldest application books I have, many numbers are missing. I have no idea what AN-9 was.
AN-9 is omitted from the Feb 1973 Linear Applications Handbook, the earliest NS applications handbook I possess.

It must have been for a very early NS device as it sits between AN-8 New Uses for the LM100 Regulator (dated June 1968) and AN-10 Low Power Operational LH001 Amplifier (dated December 1968).

Perhaps it was for an NS device that was withdrawn from the market very early in its life.
Are you sure? I know AN-8 as 'A fast, integrated voltage follower' (LM102) dated May68
 

Offline srb1954

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2021, 06:16:23 am »
AN-9 is omitted from the Feb 1973 Linear Applications Handbook, the earliest NS applications handbook I possess.

It must have been for a very early NS device as it sits between AN-8 New Uses for the LM100 Regulator (dated June 1968) and AN-10 Low Power Operational LH001 Amplifier (dated December 1968).

Perhaps it was for an NS device that was withdrawn from the market very early in its life.
Are you sure? I know AN-8 as 'A fast, integrated voltage follower' (LM102) dated May68
In my 1973 copy of NS Linear Applications the LM102 application note is 'AN-5 A Fast Integrated Voltage Follower with Low Input Current May 1968'
« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 07:47:51 am by srb1954 »
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2021, 04:44:47 pm »
I have maybe 100kg of data books going back to the 1980s, which anyone can have if they want to collect them. I have not referenced any of them in 20+ years, except for nostalgia purposes. One day they will all get chucked in the skip, which seems a waste.

South east UK, on the coast. PM me if interested :)

PDFs are definitely lighter!  :D
 

Offline Forty-Bot

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2022, 04:52:27 pm »
Does anyone have errata or programming notes for the DP83840 (not the DP83840A)? I am trying to determine whether the parallel detection bugs which affect the DP83840A affect the DP83840 as well. The recommended workaround for the DP83840A is to check whether the multiple-link fault bit (bit 4) is set in the autonegotiation expansion register (register 6), but in the DP83840 datasheet it says that "this Feature is not currently supported."
« Last Edit: October 09, 2022, 04:58:57 pm by Forty-Bot »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Obtaining original National Semiconductor datasheets and application notes
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2022, 06:31:03 pm »
Having good technical content readily available isn't the way today's sales is intended to work: They want you the speak to their "experts" which in turn recommend you some chips that are the "best" for you. What they recommend wouldn't necessarily be the same as a well informed customer would decide to use.
How do you figure? They make it all but impossible to reach a human, so figuring it out yourself is absolutely what they want you to do.
 
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Offline Tamworth10

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I have about 20 of the old Blue National Instruments Databooks, all different, that I'm not sure are worth keeping. They are from the 1990s but I haven't used them for decades, but I used to love going through them to design digital circuits and power supplies.

Is anyone interested in them? Or do you think they hold values? You can pick them up for free in Newcastle NSW, or if the world has moved on then I'll sadly put them in the Yellow recycling bin  :-\.

Happy to send a photo of the titles if that helps.
 


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