Author Topic: Old School Soldering  (Read 12360 times)

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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Old School Soldering
« on: January 03, 2021, 06:58:58 pm »
I was given a few old torches that were removed from buildings before they were demolished.   These were used for soldering and I plan to give it a try.   A few irons were found with the torches along with some bar solder.   The one is a bit odd and I have not been able to find who made it.  The more typical one looks almost home made.

To attempt to solder electronics, I think I will need to make a custom iron.   The last iron I made was pretty crude.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/homebrew-soldering-iron/msg2134417/#msg2134417

One of the torches is 100 years old, based on the test date marked on the tank.   These use leather for the seals which can leak so I changed the design to use Viton seals (should be a little safer). 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 08:47:04 pm by joeqsmith »
 
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2021, 06:59:48 pm »
Testing the oldest torch.


Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2021, 07:58:43 pm »

What would it have been used for, 100 years ago?  Fixing Model T radiators?
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2021, 08:33:51 pm »
Early cars did use lead in the body work but I suspect the torch predates that.  I would guess plumbing and electrical would have been the two primary uses for solder.   

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2021, 08:45:59 pm »
A decent website with some general information on them.

http://www.blotorches.com/horror.html


One of the torches I was given was made by the Turner Brass Works.  There is a site which has some interesting historical information on the company. 

https://www.madeinchicagomuseum.com/single-post/turner-brass-works/

Offline helius

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2021, 09:04:37 pm »
While fascinating from a history standpoint, these tools were amazingly dangerous for such a commonplace item. Beyond melting snow, I'm not sure they are practical for anything these days.
 

Offline nali

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2021, 09:12:11 pm »
Considering the age, one use might've been for soldering leaded windows?
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2021, 09:20:34 pm »
National lead bar with some solder.

Offline CJay

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2021, 09:26:59 pm »
Early cars did use lead in the body work but I suspect the torch predates that.  I would guess plumbing and electrical would have been the two primary uses for solder.   

Anywhere metal needed to be joined and/or smoothed really, I wouldn't be surprised if it were used for 'real' coachwork.

I've worked on the electrcal system of a pre-war Mercedes while it was being restored and it was interesting to watch the panels being fitted and worked with lead solder, a real skill.
 

Offline Syntax Error

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2021, 09:45:29 pm »
Agree with @nali . Tools this shape are most familiar to a Leadlighter - an artesan who makes leaded windows.

Alternatively, they would have been familiar to a Gaslighter. A gas light fitter.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 09:49:54 pm by Syntax Error »
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2021, 10:31:53 pm »
While fascinating from a history standpoint, these tools were amazingly dangerous for such a commonplace item. Beyond melting snow, I'm not sure they are practical for anything these days.
Yes yes, "think of the children".

This tool was a common tool , same uses that you'd use a propane torch these days.
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Offline CJay

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2021, 10:52:54 pm »
While fascinating from a history standpoint, these tools were amazingly dangerous for such a commonplace item. Beyond melting snow, I'm not sure they are practical for anything these days.
Yes yes, "think of the children".

This tool was a common tool , same uses that you'd use a propane torch these days.

Except propane is considerably more safe than those things.
 
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Offline ferdieCX

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2021, 11:58:47 pm »
When I was a child, I saw oft people using this kind of torch for plumbing.
They were also useful to remove paint from wood and metal.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2021, 08:17:03 am »
Gave both my blow torches to my neighbor that has a collection of ~100 of them.
Some he has are so small their tanks hold just a couple of hundred ml and have no pump as the head heating bowl is part of the tank so when heating the head the tank get pressurized while doing so. That they are also so compact there's enough heat from the head to keep the tank pressurized.
His big blowtorches have tanks of at least 1 imp gal (4.5l) and hand pumps like an old bicycle stirrup pump to pressurize them.....these make Joes new acquisition look like a toy.  :P

Some rare medium size models even have 2 nozzles one of which is quite small and can be lit without preheat, just with a match and its only purpose is for fast heating of the main head to get it up and running quickly.
Typically fuels were kerosene and white spirits (78 octane petrol) however every model was designed to run on one or the other and not normally either. Preheat fuels used also depended on OEM design with white spirits (gas) units able to preheat on spirits/gas although it turned the head black with soot and kerosene was even worse so methylated sprits was the preheat fuel of choice for all types as there was no soot produced however the inconvenience of also needing to carry a lighting fuel meant meths was rarely used and consequently blowlamp heads were normally a sooty black that mostly burnt away in use.

Joes use of Coleman fuel was a good safe bet not knowing precisely which fuel it might run best on and also adequate for the preheat although one would normally open the fuel valve just before the the preheat flame had used all it fuel for the preheat flame to also light the burner.

Earlier in my lifetime it was common to see blowlamps used by various trades and particularly plumbers before silicone sealants were in wide use.
They mostly used these:

However this style of iron was also useful for sheet metal jointing work:


Telecoms used blowlamps and large handheld irons for their early lead wrapped cable joints and their large copper irons were prized in NZ for conversion to lamb tailing irons which we normally heated in the coals of a small fire in a 4 gallon tin.
Big irons like the one on the blowlamp here:


Main blowlamp brands we saw in NZ were Primus and Sievert.
Must get a pic of my buddies big collection................
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 09:09:48 am by tautech »
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2021, 04:31:30 pm »
I always appreciate peoples concern for my safety.  This torch requires some level of skill to operate and maintain it.   Consider I had pressure tested the unit and checked for leaks using water.  During the pressure testing, I had ran the pressure higher than I intended to run the torch at.   This was after a full inspection, cleaning and replacement of bad parts.   When it came time to run it, my wife was ready with the fire extinguisher. 

Going forward,  I have some experience using Viton with various fuels.  I went away from the cup seal and designed a new brass piston that uses O-rings.   Where the leather seals would hold air pressure (nothing but air in the tank) for about 15 minutes or so, the new Viton seals will hold pressure for a half day. 

Of course, anytime you are playing with fire, expect it can be hot and can burn you!  Parents must have let me learn that at at a very young age.  Imagine the moral outrage that would cause today!  :-DD

If we look at the CDC death rates,  heart disease still leads the way.   The couch may not be so safe!   :-DD     Another aspect of playing with a torch like this is you are handling chemicals that are known to cause cancer which is the second leading cause of death.   

I often think that if we had to recreate our personal transportation system today, we couldn't.  Imagine trying to tell someone that they get to fill their car with a highly toxic cocktail of cancer causing chemicals.  They do it without a hazmat suit, special training and no MSDS on hand.    They can even open the valve and pour it on themselves.    Even better, we now place an unskilled driver in the car and turn them loose on a public road.   Of course we will try and dumb down this complex system with people who can't write software.  Mix that with some cell phones and ethanol...   Accidents should be number three on the list!   :-DD

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2021, 04:39:53 pm »
Gave both my blow torches to my neighbor that has a collection of ~100 of them. 

..

Main blowlamp brands we saw in NZ were Primus and Sievert.
Must get a pic of my buddies big collection................

Would like to see it. 

Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2021, 08:13:29 pm »
My leaded glass window restorer used an old copper soldering iron to repair the failed joints in the lead channels.
The windows were full length beveled glass "Tulip" design.
You put the long iron into the notch at the mouth of the blowtorch  with the long iron part of the handle under the hook that is on top of the blowtorch.
The flame is aimed at the copper part (head) of the soldering "iron". That holds it in place until it is hot enough.
You then can remove the iron and use it till it cools off.

On sheet metal: my father had a sheet metal company and had a contract for "airtight" metal plenums. He and my mother used an acetelene soldering gas torch (no oxygen) to heat up the metal and apply the solder in stick form to the "Pittsburg" joints. They used hydrochloric acid to etch the galvanized metal. We had heavy boxes of lead sticks I think some of them were labeled 50/50 tin to lead. As a child, it was fun to bend the sticks in front of my friends. Looked cool.
I suppose the copper head solder iron would work there too but there is a lot of heat loss to the sheet metal. So the iron would require frequent reheating.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2021, 03:10:46 am »
It's still common to use huge electric American Beauty soldering irons on those stained glass windows and sheet metal seams. Maybe not quite the power of the blowtorch but easier to maintain.

Of course, anytime you are playing with fire, expect it can be hot and can burn you!  Parents must have let me learn that at at a very young age.  Imagine the moral outrage that would cause today!

As a boy who played a lot with matches (and other things) I'm not too worried about the "playing with fire" aspect. It's the fact that fuel can silently spring a leak and spray all over you while a flame is nearby. Certainly nothing like a propane torch (or even an oxyacetylene torch) can compare at all.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 03:15:08 am by helius »
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2021, 04:23:36 am »
As a boy who played a lot with matches (and other things) I'm not too worried about the "playing with fire" aspect. It's the fact that fuel can silently spring a leak and spray all over you while a flame is nearby. Certainly nothing like a propane torch (or even an oxyacetylene torch) can compare at all.

Empathy is such a rare quality anymore and again I appreciate your concerns.  I am a bit of a risk taker and have little concern about running this torch it in it's current state.   Yes, a lot of things can happen but I am more than capable of assessing my personal risks and mitigating them.  Once in a while my wife will shut me down.   That's when I know it's getting out of hand.   


Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2021, 11:54:32 am »
This has been one interesting read!!  :D
Here's a few snippets of info for contemplation...
'Plumbus' comes from the old Greek/Latin word for 'LEAD'.
Hence, a 'Plumber' is/was a Lead Worker. (Now often plastic & glue  :-+)
A 'PlumBob' is a lead weight on a string to find a vertical!!

However, the worst of the worst is when a lot of (not all!) Americans called 'SOLder', 'SODDer' !!!  >:D
If there was an item/product/design that Americans designed/built, then of course they can call it what ever
they want, but it was an English (from England!!) word, that does NOT have a silent 'L', and is just like...
folder, colder, holder, bolder... etc...  Please stop hijacking basic words!!!  End of rant...   :box: :-+
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2021, 12:50:42 pm »
I figured you rant on about us saying "A" "C" "D" "C"  rather than  aka daca.   

Personally,  I don't get too hung up up spelling, grammer or how people enunciate.   I've worked with people from all over the world and if we can understand one another, good enough.  We normally have bigger fish to fry. 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2021, 04:36:07 pm »
It's still common to use huge electric American Beauty soldering irons on those stained glass windows and sheet metal seams. Maybe not quite the power of the blowtorch but easier to maintain.

Of course, anytime you are playing with fire, expect it can be hot and can burn you!  Parents must have let me learn that at at a very young age.  Imagine the moral outrage that would cause today!

As a boy who played a lot with matches (and other things) I'm not too worried about the "playing with fire" aspect. It's the fact that fuel can silently spring a leak and spray all over you while a flame is nearby. Certainly nothing like a propane torch (or even an oxyacetylene torch) can compare at all.

No, an oxy torch is far worse, If this thing leaks, you get a fire. If an oxy torch leaks on the fuel line before the arrestor it could ignite, flashback, and blow up the whole tank killing everyone in the room. That's why they should always be inspected before each use and why they put oderant in acetelyne.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 04:38:22 pm by Cyberdragon »
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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2021, 05:48:08 pm »
I'm guessing I'm not the only one who has played an acetylene torch.   :-DD   


Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2021, 06:45:53 pm »
I'm guessing I'm not the only one who has played an acetylene torch.   :-DD   




LOL that was serious - you obviously wouldn't want acetylene to accumulate in your garage!   :D
 

Offline Refrigerator

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Re: Old School Soldering
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2021, 07:49:06 pm »
Quote
warning to anyone watching this, take a plastic bag into a pitch black room and open it, you will see all kinds of tiny static sparks, sparks that could blow the bomb at any time. i blew myself up while filling one inside my garage. I had blood coming from both ears and could not hear at all for the first day, and i had to pull garbage bag shrapnel out of almost all of my exposed skin that was near the bag. on the flip side its a great way to blow the dust off the rafters. i no longer use garbage bags.
A bit of safety advice from the comments.
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