Online auctions and AI

[woodchips]

I dabble in online auctions but have recently seen some new behaviour. Normally you bid for an item, increases at the amount interval and then either win or can't afford it.

Recently bid price has been junping up, at more than the minimum bid interval. Also the prices reached by several electronic test equipment items have been, to put it mildly, silly, more than £200 +40% for a Tek 453 in unknown condition.

What, after much thought, I wonder is happening is that the auction site is measuring the rate of bids, whilst still keen then re-bid quickly, slowing as you get to your limit. I can't think of any other reason ass to why such silly prices are reached. I also wonder if you are bidding against the auction site, many state that in their T&C's so ok, but what if there are two auction site proxy bidders, having a war between each other?

It is easy to determine if you are the only bidder, also if a competing bidder has a limit which you either fold or wait out. But even with the maximum bid from another real bidder is reached and you outbid, the bid price is run up.

My limited bidding experience, don't buy much, suggests that if you place a mimimum bid at the start, then increase it as the items comes closer to bid time then you get run up, just placing one bid either wins or loses the lot.

Any comments or other experiences?

Seems to me to now be like taking your pet to the vets, it is £500 for anything, all the meaningless tests and checks done. Reading computer mags and similar seems to happen with subscriptions.

[Psi]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

I think there's just more people around who think they are smart and buy things they shouldn't at prices that make no sense.

[tggzzz]

I also wonder if you are bidding against the auction site, many state that in their T&C's so ok,

Auction houses have done that since time immemorial; one name for it is "taking bids off the wall". Example: https://www.propertyinvestmentsuk.co.uk/what-is-off-the-wall-bidding/

An auction house is unlikely to take a wall bid above the reserve price, since that could result in the item not being sold.

The only remedy is to work out the maximum price you are prepared to pay - and stick to it. That way you will have nothing to complain about.

[factory]

WTF? The one I bought from them made a hammer price of £38 (sold as spares repair, no manual or cover) in 2022, a couple of new capacitors & a replacement mains cable was all that was needed to fix it.



Even if there was a reserve, there still has to be another real bidder wanting to pay a daft price, the scopes I entered didn't make silly prices.

Second question, why is the OP bidding as he lost interest in the hobby a few years ago?

David

[ebastler]

Normally you bid for an item, increases at the amount interval and then either win or can't afford it.

In auction formats with a pre-defined, known closing time -- I think the only rational bidding pattern is to wait until the last moment, then bid once, namely the maximum amount you are willing to pay. Any other approach is just bound to drive up the price: "If the other guy bids that much, the item must be worth it. I really want it, so I will bid a bit more." Rinse and repeat.

[m k]

"Institutional" bidders are like institutional bettors, be like them.
Target has a price long before anything happens, current form and so on is less relevant.

Time before closing time is irrelevant, it doesn't define anything.
Don't foul yourself that your action affect others, it only affects you.

Fixed end time forces you to put out your best, no such thing as sniper bidder.
Dynamic end time lures you to go over your best.

Maybe one thing for last moment bidding, active market scanner.
Then passive target can go under the radar and last moment bids come too late for an action.
On the other hand, bidding automats are a norm.

Do I remember correctly that PP has a visible bidding history.
Two "I have money, I can outbid you" bidders can do wonders, even better if one is AI.
I remember that in the past PP AI did some quite odd bids, like outbid somebody for rotary dial phone.

[factory]

For the seller, they have to hope the guy with 'auction fever' actually pays for the item(s) too.

I didn't bid on anything this time, as I haven't time to go there at the moment and there was very little I was even interested in.

David

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah I don't think this is due to AI at this point. On eBay alone, I have indeed noticed that used lab equipment was now routinely listed at insanely inflated prices. You can't be certain they are actually ever sold.
Many sellers (especially the pro ones with high volume) use "bidding services" to artificially push prices up. Even if they don't sell at those prices, after a while, that sets the "average price" for a given item and they get to make actual sales for not as high, but higher prices than they would otherwise have. Yes, this is borderline "illegal", but a very common practice.

[Stray Electron]

The only remedy is to work out the maximum price you are prepared to pay - and stick to it. That way you will have nothing to complain about.

   Exactly.  Place your bid and then don't look at the bids until the auction is over!  The whole reason that auctions are so effective at getting ridiculous prices for item is because the Bidders take it personally when they're outbid so they will retaliate by bidding even higher amounts until the prices get ridiculous!

[tggzzz]

The only remedy is to work out the maximum price you are prepared to pay - and stick to it. That way you will have nothing to complain about.

   Exactly.  Place your bid and then don't look at the bids until the auction is over!  The whole reason that auctions are so effective at getting ridiculous prices for item is because the Bidders take it personally when they're outbid so they will retaliate by bidding even higher amounts until the prices get ridiculous!

There is an exception. If you have to go and fetch the preciouses treasures, then once you have bought one item the transport on the other items is effectively free. Hence it can be worth bidding higher than you otherwise would on later low value items. For example, once you are committed to buying a SA, you might as well offer an extra 25% for a DVM.