General > General Technical Chat
Open Source Ventilator
pipe2null:
--- Quote from: Bud on March 29, 2020, 09:21:35 pm ---Do you really think you will show up at a hospital door with a contraption 3D printed in the garage and the nurses will form a line to get one from you? :-//
--- End quote ---
Don't know. If the line queues up next to the morgue, it's likely to be at least considered. You do have a point though.
james_s:
--- Quote from: Bud on March 29, 2020, 09:21:35 pm ---Do you really think you will show up at a hospital door with a contraption 3D printed in the garage and the nurses will form a line to get one from you? :-//
--- End quote ---
Obviously it needs to be produced and delivered by an organization with some expertise and clout, not just a random individual showing up at the door. Having more ideas developed cannot be a bad thing, there is no shortage of skilled and experienced engineers who can draw from the best of the ideas and come up with something. We need something equivalent to the Liberty ships in WWII, cheap, utilitarian and easily produced in large numbers, they can be scrapped or sold off as surplus and repurposed after the crisis is over.
I will say this though, if I'm dying and in need of a ventilator and there is not one available to me, sign me up, I don't care if a random 15 year old built it in his or her garage, I'll take it. If the alternative is to die suffocating in my own fluids then I don't really give a rat's ass about regulations or whether the contraption I'm hooking up to has a chance of not working properly or even that it might kill me.
pipe2null:
There are many people out there doing what they can, whether they are printing stuff out or designing stuff for people to print out as a stopgap for shortages.
https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/coronavirus-covid-19/
But stopgap measures for something like ventilators requires real engineers throwing in with the maker community. If only I knew of a forum where people of such a caliber hung out... ;)
MasterBuilder:
All this raises a few questions;
Boris Johnson says Dyson will manufacture them
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52043767
Trump has ordered GM to produce them, 10000 per month.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52071611
Is there really a global shortage of ventilators:
There certainly seems to be in Spain:
Price has risen from 26k to 96k due to demand:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52074862
Are they difficult to make;
Probably not if only basic features are needed.
Most of the requirement seem to be covered with a proportional valve, some sensors and control.
CPAP machine seems to be some good:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/27/822211604/cpap-machines-were-seen-as-ventilator-alternatives-but-could-spread-covid-19?
For more difficult cases there is definitely a better outcome if a fully featured and certified ventilator is used.
My insight is that near me is located a factory which manufacturers Ventilators for a major Medical device company. They announced last week that they are increasing production capacity, they are doubling it to 500 per week. To allow for this they are doubling the staff in the factory and moving to a 24/7 shift. Curious and keen to help as any engineer might be, I made some inquiries and found that they seem to have very few advertised jobs and certainly not the hundreds that they need to double capacity. There does seem to be a reasonable explanation for this, they have other products manufactured nearby so they likely just moved staff over to the ventilator plant. But as of today they are still not doing 24/7 shift, maybe its just a slow moving corporation problem, but would they not move faster in what is literally a life and death situation.
There are plenty obvious reasons why making life support equipment is a difficult task, these claiming they can start building these overnight seem to be living in a fantasy world.
Blitzschnitzel:
If someone sees flaws with the concepts being worked on that is the more reason to assert yourself in the project. :D
--- Quote from: pipe2null on March 29, 2020, 09:09:49 pm ---From what I've read, the primary issue with CPAP/BiPAP hacking is the open-exhaust of the patients' exhale, which is bad for transmitting the virus. If someone comes up with a partially printable solution for that, then perhaps there might be some CPAP/BiPAP models that would only need a firmware hack? I have no idea, just throwing some ideas out there.
--- End quote ---
There are exhaust filters but they apparently don't fit on intubation pipes. -.- But a 3D printed adapter can be used. The problem is that you don't want to pump bone dry air into patients but on the exhale the moisture makes the filters less effective over time.
Here is a video of the concept I am working on:
Obviously you have to imagine the bag beeing squeezed.^^
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