Opinions about "The Geek Group" on YouTube

[duskglow]

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

I agree you have your opinion.  I don't see quite as many facts.  I particularly am not a fan of the way you are implying malicious motives to someone who obviously is, at the extreme worst case very uncharitable worst, misguided*.  But I'll agree to disagree.

* I am not saying he is.  I am saying that even if one wants to assume the very worst about all of his actions and efforts, that is the worst word I think could actually be said to apply.

[SparkyProjects]

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

Well that's one thing about Chris and TGG, if you have facts, be prepared to back them up, lay your cards on the table, would be interesting what facts you actually have.

[expertmax1]

...

I think the issue is the language barrier. I am not a native English speaker so the way I write my sentences may not be the way I would have wrote them in my native language !

Cult:
1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

I meant to say "sect". Again, language barrier.

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

Well that's one thing about Chris and TGG, if you have facts, be prepared to back them up, lay your cards on the table, would be interesting what facts you actually have.

Do I need to ? No ! The goal of this topic was to get people's opinion about The Geek Group, not mine.

You are welcome to have your free speech either in the forum, or in IRC during one of the shows.

What about YouTube comments ? I don't understand why you would want to control what is said on YouTube videos knowing that it is your main source of attraction. Your videos barely gets a 1000 views a week after they are uploaded, there is a reason for that. If people feel they are not welcomed or they can't say what they have to say, well they will look somewhere else.

[duskglow]

I think the issue is the language barrier. I am not a native English speaker so the way I write my sentences may not be the way I would have wrote them in my native language !

I hope so, because what you're writing in English is actually rather insulting.  I have known, sometimes personally, some truly heinous religious leaders, who cared nothing about the people they were "in charge of" except for how they could line their own pockets with the money of the credulous.  To lump Chris in with that kind of evil is, to me, an insult to Chris, and an insult to the true victims of cult abuse, which, as I mentioned, I have quite a bit of first hand experience with.

I'm not 100% on board with The Geek Group, never have been, and I don't think that I'm their primary targeted audience, though I think there are still some interesting things I can take away from it, and maybe even contribute.  But I'm not going to demean and insult Chris just because he's doing something that is not completely directed to me, and I find the idea that people do find it so easy to insult him to be a little disturbing.  If you don't like what he's doing, great, that's your right, I support your right to not like what he's doing.  But why is there this personal animosity?  It doesn't make any sense to me.

[expertmax1]

There's nothing personal. And c'mon I did not insult Chris and any victims of cult abuse, you are overreacting. You are seeing  where there's none.

[duskglow]

I'm only reacting to the words you used.  I am pleased to know that those were not the words you intended to use.

[ChrisBoden]

No, we're totally a cult.
http://youtu.be/RzzkB0DouCg

Now settle down and drink your Kool Aide.

[duskglow]

What is thy bidding, my master?

[duskglow]

Oh, and Chris - the Monty Python reference?  Well done.

[lemmegraphdat]

Annoying as hell.

[ChrisBoden]

Btw, I'll be doing the live show an hour earlier this evening, starting at 2100h Eastern time (that's in about 39 minutes as I write this). I sincerely welcome everyone here (especially with disagreeable opinions of me/the Group) to join. Hop in the IRC discussion and ask me anything you wish in realtime. I will gladly answer any questions you like. I'm sure that Sparky or someone can post the links and details. I referenced them earlier in this thread. You can find the easy way there simply by going to http://thegeekgroup.org/live/ but I know there are better ways.

Everyone is welcome. Ask questions, demand evidence, think critically! I don't mind people that disagree with me, or even hate me. But I deeply dislike those with strong opinions about that which they don't understand.

[EEVblog]

They are super restrictive when it comes to open-world feedback : they have the infamous "Comments may be held for uploader approval." comment system on YouTube

IMO (as a full time youtuber of course) enabling that option is tantamount to channel suicide.
There is little upside in doing that.
As I see it:
1) It restricts your community input and participation. Which also means people are less likely to return and contribute.
2) It affects your youtube search ranking, which is a big part of a continuous view/income stream if you aspire to do this full time.
3) It rubs people the wrong way and potentially drives them away, as has been demonstrated here. Ditto the 2nd part of 2)

If anyone is doing this because:
1) They think their channel will look more "professional" to their advertisers or sponsors
or
2) They are being pressured by their advertisers or sponsors to keep up some sort of "clean" imagine.

Then in either case, IMO you will ultimately end up losing.
Because you either continually live in fear of doing something that pisses of your advertisers or sponsors (sometime that fear may not even be warranted and is entirely self imposed), or you are under their thumb.
I can only speak for myself of course, and in my case, I have made sure I never put myself in either position, many times at the potential future success of the channel. Because if that happens that's the day I throw in the towel, I may as well be working for The Man.
I see it as one of those slippery slopes, or thin edge of the wedge. The instant you start letting your advertisers or sponsors dictate what you say, how you say things, or expect a certain level of delivery or content, to quote Yoda - forever will it dominate your destiny.

I've had quite a few potential advertisers and/or sponsors (e.g. donate equipment) try to dictate various things over the years, and in every case I have told them to bugger off. Some have buggered off, some have eventually relented and agree to play by my rules.
And I think I'm much better off and have stringer channel and brand now for doing that.

[EEVblog]

Are you aware of the non-official videos where we don't have to play by the rules?

May I ask:
1) what rules you need to play by?
2) who is imposing those rules?
3) why do you think you need to play by them?

[electronics_guy]

http://thegeekgroup.org/about-2/corporate-documents/bylaws/

Read it.  Decide for yourself, compare and contrast to a cult.

[c4757p]

http://thegeekgroup.org/about-2/corporate-documents/bylaws/

Read it.  Decide for yourself, compare and contrast to a cult.

This appears to have as much in common with anything cult-related as it has in common with a lasagna. Looks like your standard, run-of-the-mill club bylaws document.

[EEVblog]

No, we're totally a cult.
http://youtu.be/RzzkB0DouCg

  

[Sprocket777]

I do have to say, I am against the reviewing youtube comments policy. I am on Dave's side with this one.

I have been a "background" member of the geek group for a while. I have been in and out of the forums, I watch the official videos and blog when they come out, and have emailed chris a while back on some opinion questions. I am a supporter of the group, however I do not agree with many of the official video formats. I know they try to do "off the cuff" stuff, especially the autopsies, but it comes off as unprofessional. Some of the autopsy videos, I cringe when Chris yells or does something stupid in the videos, however it is just his personality. They are working on getting a teleprompter for use in official videos, which I think will help a lot.

I was dragged into the geek group while a young teenager, thus being in that teen audience. I saw the musical tesla coil video from way back, and almost visited the k-zoo lab back when my parents would need to drive me there. Now, I live less than an hour away from the lab, and I haven't made my way out to the new GR lab, mainly because of time, but also because they are starting to seem like a sponsor oriented orientation. I don't support that system. I understand they get a lot of their funding from sponsors, but they should be sponsoring the organization to keep doing what they are doing, not because they want publicity. It was mentioned earlier about the Iscar and Haas placement in the CNC videos, that is a prime example. The CNC videos should be made for learning general CNC using the Haas and Iscar tool available for them. Use those to teach, not to advertise. I know some of the reason for the CNC videos is because Haas wanted them for training videos, but those should be released on a Haas channel in that case.

Enough with the short rant, but I sincerely like the group. I give when I can, and respond to posts in the forums when I am knowledgeable about the questions. I am excited to see the laser lab come alive, and I hope to get the chance to give my expertise on holograms and other optics stuff.

I do have to say, I laugh when Chris talks about holograms and how many cool things can be done with the lasers, then they get super excited when they can reflect a green beam a bunch or hook it up to some galvos and project patterns on the wall. Science, huh? What I would like to see from the optics lab, is a set of optics videos covering the topics outlined in an intro to physics course at the college level. I think these done professionally, not off the cuff, would net a lot of views and publicity for the geek group. Anyways, my opinion.

Geek Group: keep building awesome
EEVblog: Keep educating the world on electronics!

[duskglow]

I'm going to say it one more time and then I'll not say this particular thing again.  And I'm going to be just a little bit strongly worded because this is something that is very important to me:  Calling TGG a cult or comparing it to a cult in any way is one of the most ignorant and offensive things I have ever heard on this forum, though admittedly I haven't been here for long.

There are plenty of criticisms you can level on TGG that are valid.  This one just makes the person stating it look like a fool.

TGG is not a cult.  End of story.  I'm asking this as someone without any authority, but please stop using such inflammatory language, it's not helping.

[Stonent]

If you'd like to see an interesting optics video, look at the green laser video that Mikeselectricstuff did. He tested the strength and showed why it was showing much higher than rated, then ran it through a device to split the spectrum out into component parts and showed where the IR part was affecting the reading. Very neat.



Right about 15:23 in to the video is where the optics part comes in.

[SparkyProjects]

The CNC videos should be made for learning general CNC using the Haas and Iscar tool available for them. Use those to teach, not to advertise. I know some of the reason for the CNC videos is because Haas wanted them for training videos, but those should be released on a Haas channel in that case.

A series of shor CNC videeos were started, but there will be a whole new series, basically anyone who wants to know how to do a ceratain task, or wants to know about bits will be able to find the video on youtube and learn that process, this will be hundreds of videos  on each machine, so yes the HAAS machine and Iscar tools vids will be educational to new and old CNC users.

[Smokey]

...If anyone is doing this because:
1) They think their channel will look more "professional" to their advertisers or sponsors
or
2) They are being pressured by their advertisers or sponsors to keep up some sort of "clean" imagine.

Edited or not edited, I don't think you post stuff like this if you are trying to keep a clean professional image...


and this one.   Skip to 7 minutes.  It's all downhill from there.


I personally think this stuff is super funny, and it does appear to be his own personal channel, but when you are the public face or something youth oriented... well...

[ChrisBoden]

May I ask:
1) what rules you need to play by?

Entirely too many. Please keep in mind that it's not just me and a camera anymore, there's an entire production team involved. The days of shooting a video in the afternoon, editing in the evening, and posting overnight are long since gone from the main channel (though I do still do the blogs myself). I have to appease the Board, the video team (I have a director, and she is mean as hell and throws things at me, she also denies me food, help me, please), sponsors, etc. The videos on the main channel are in a state of growing pains right now as we bring our professionalism up significantly. You're about to see a lot of very different content from what you're used to on here. Some of it will take us back to our early days, some of it will be vastly superior to what we've done so far.

2) who is imposing those rules?

Me (I do get a vote around here), the Director, the staff, members, viewers, sponsors, foundations, the Development team, the PR team, the legal team and on occasion the dog.


3) why do you think you need to play by them?

Because I want to make a difference. I want to leave a legacy. I want to change the world. I'm not just doing YouTube videos for fun, this is a small (albeit very important) part of a much larger overarching enterprise. We operate the largest Makerspace in the world (and the oldest, open since 1994). I'm not just an idiot with a camera anymore, I'm an idiot at the tail of a multimillion dollar non-profit. This is why I don't get to have a blue mohawk, or swear, or carry a gun, or set dumpsters on fire, etc. I have to be professional. Some days I even wear a tie.


On the Comments thing, well, our commentators are likely very different from yours. We pass about 80% of them. The 20% or so we don't approve are ones that are derogatory (we have a lot of females around here, and some dudes are either very mean, or very creepy), or just plain stupid. Comments that are not positive or productive, we delete. I have no problems with people hating us or having a differing opinion, but that doesn't mean that they get to thrash on me on my dime. If they want to hate us, they can make their own videos on their own channel. It's a free internet. The ones that get the most cranky are the ones that rage on us for not teaching jesus, the ones that get pissed when we won't give them Moose or Liz's email/phone numbers/bra size, and the ones who want to tell us that our cameras/lighting/audio sucks. I assure you, we know it sucks, and we're working to do better. They want to bitch about it, but they don't want to donate to help get a new camera, or better lights, etc, they just want to bitch. Decisions are made by those that show up; I have little use for trools, and for those that only want to piss and moan. We're here to work, to make a substantial difference in the world. I support anyone who wants to help inspire people (It's why I like Dave ), but I have no use for whiners. That's why we moderate comments. If it costs me viewers, well if they're that shallow as to be offended, and they can't find one of the 20 other ways to interact and be heard by myself and the staff, then they aren't people I want as viewers anyways.

[EEVblog]

I know they try to do "off the cuff" stuff, especially the autopsies, but it comes off as unprofessional. Some of the autopsy videos, I cringe when Chris yells or does something stupid in the videos, however it is just his personality. They are working on getting a teleprompter for use in official videos, which I think will help a lot.

I just got my arse chewed off for being "unprofessional" in the latest Tekway video by getting some operational stuff wrong.
Like people expect everything that come out of my channel to be 100% professional, refined, and checked. Even a bumbling first impressions video 
I have not watched Chris's videos, but if anyone is criticising him for being unprofessional or being himself in what is effectively a live(?) show (even if post edited), I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

[duskglow]

I really don't want to see either Dave or Chris in a wet t-shirt.

[ChrisBoden]

Thank you DAve, you get it.

As far as the cat video, that was hilarious and I don't regret a thing. It's a personal video we did for a laugh years ago. I'd do it again tomorrow (on my personal channel of course) without a moments hesitation. This time though, I'd use flea dip and scrub the pussy, not shave it (that was hard).

The second video (which is over 3 years old btw) was entirely factual. It was from the early days of us making serious videos and it shows EXACTLY what happens when it all goes sideways. Laugh at me all you want, I'm NOT a God, I'm NOT a genius, I'm just a guy like everyone else. We get them wrong sometimes. That one was SO wrong that I posted it for comedic value. It's been on national television more times than I can count, I don't regret it at all. It's THERE for you to laugh at, enjoy it. I laugh too, every time someone sends me a check for using it on their TV show.