Opinions about "The Geek Group" on YouTube

[expertmax1]

Hi everybody !

I don't know if I'm in the right place for this but I have a rant about the YouTube channel "The Geek Group" and it's founder Chris Boden.

I don't personally know anybody from this organisation, this is a personal opinion solely based on videos that I've watched over the years on their YouTube channel. Their content is great, they have a massive collection of video from High Voltage stuff to CNC. They make some donations to charity and they invest in educational spheres for everything that is electronic-related.

But gosh, I don't know, I feel something is going on there. They are super restrictive when it comes to open-world feedback : they have the infamous "Comments may be held for uploader approval." comment system on YouTube, their Forum is very basic and anything a little off-topic or negative is instantly deleted.

Have you seen the attitude of Chris Boden ? Very bossy, very harsh, very spiteful. I feel that his co-workers do not say a word because they are afraid that Chris will kick them out. I almost feel it's like a sect, cult.

Like I said, I could be TOTALLY wrong but this is my opinion based on what I've seen.

If you have any comment to add please reply !


Thanks, have a nice day!

[c4757p]

they have the infamous "Comments may be held for uploader approval." comment system on YouTube

anything a little off-topic or negative is instantly deleted.

That's all I need to know.

[Psi]

A substantial amount of their income is from support by other sponsors, organisations and donations.

I think they feel they have a public image to uphold or they might lose money.
Bad publicity, negative comments and offtopic subjects are, in their opinion, too risky.

Which i kinda understand but yeah, this is why i'm here and not there

I do enjoy their videos though, i really have no problem with them at all.

[EEVblog]

A substantial amount of their income is from support by other sponsors, organisations and donations.
I think they feel they have a public image to uphold or they might lose money.

I don't care if I lose money, or subscribers 
Well, of course, I do, but you know, I do what I wanna do, and say what I say, and whatever happens happens.

[expertmax1]

A substantial amount of their income is from support by other sponsors, organisations and donations.
I think they feel they have a public image to uphold or they might lose money.

I don't care if I lose money, or subscribers 
Well, of course, I do, but you know, I do what I wanna do, and say what I say, and whatever happens happens.

I think that's what makes your YouTube channel awesome and successful.

[duskglow]

I've been following them for a while now.  I get the feeling that Chris is very, very passionate about what he does, and is hoping someday to be able to make a living off of it.  So he guards it very jealously and tries to put forth a very polished and professional image.  But he's not a PR professional, so this takes the form of building sets, jealously guarding their image, and very carefully controlling everything that is exposed to the public.

I really like what he's trying to do, but there are a few reasons I don't give them money.

[Stonent]

For the record, I'm available to shill people's products and or services. Have $$ will travel

The $5 Cen-Tech multimeters at Harbor Frieght are by far superior to any Fluke.
(This message sponsored by Harbor Freight)

[smashedProton]

On a somewhat related note, THEIR ANIMATOR IS AMAZING!!!!!!!! 

[Bored@Work]

For the record, I'm available to shill people's products and or services. Have $$ will travel

The $5 Cen-Tech multimeters at Harbor Frieght are by far superior to any Fluke.
(This message sponsored by Harbor Freight)

You know no shame, do you?

Regarding the geek group, they are executing some kind of business plan. Apparently I am not in their target group. They do entertainment, the geek stuff is just a vehicle to do so. Thats why they point out they do awesome stuff. But I prefer solid engineering over awesome, made for TVYT stuff.

[duskglow]

I disagree.  If you watch enough of their videos, you can see who the target audience actually is, as Chris is very up front about it.  12 year olds.  The entertainment is a means to an end, which is exposing kids to technology and giving them a place to build and experiment.

So instead of the geek stuff being a vehicle to do entertainment, it's the other way around.  The entertainment is a vehicle to do geek stuff.

[Bored@Work]

I disagree.  If you watch enough of their videos, you can see who the target audience actually is, as Chris is very up front about it.  12 year olds.  The entertainment is a means to an end, which is exposing kids to technology and giving them a place to build and experiment.

So instead of the geek stuff being a vehicle to do entertainment, it's the other way around.  The entertainment is a vehicle to do geek stuff.

But doing geek stuff doesn't require entertainment or publicity. You just do it for your own amusement. They are in the entertainment industry.

[smashedProton]

I disagree.  If you watch enough of their videos, you can see who the target audience actually is, as Chris is very up front about it.  12 year olds.  The entertainment is a means to an end, which is exposing kids to technology and giving them a place to build and experiment.

So instead of the geek stuff being a vehicle to do entertainment, it's the other way around.  The entertainment is a vehicle to do geek stuff.

But doing geek stuff doesn't require entertainment or publicity. You just do it for your own amusement. They are in the entertainment industry.

So?  Youtube is an entertainment industry, nobody doubts the educational value it has.  His goal is simply to educate people about technology, and give people a safe and unhindered place for kids to learn technology and be creative doing so.  Not to mention learning how to work with their hands.  I think that he does a great job of fulfilling that goal.  But maybe not at the international level that we expect.

[sleemanj]

I do what I wanna do, and say what I say

Somebody has to send Dave some Hammer Pants for a mailbag !

[Smokey]

I only know about these guys from watching their CNC series on youtube.  While it was pretty obviously an advertizement for Haas and Iscar tools since they apparently donated the equipment, it was also super interesting and they packed a lot of good info in there in-between product placements.  And it was also fun to watch.  I guess I'm just one of those crazy people that can watch someone make chips and think that's fun though.... go figure.

[duskglow]

I don't watch the CNC stuff, but I do like the equipment autopsies.  That's actually how I found Dave, I started with the Geek Group and went looking for more because I exhausted them, and whattaya know, there's a crazy aussie bloke ripping crap apart and explaining how it all works in way deeper detail than Chris ever could.  So in a real way, they're responsible for me being here.

That's either a good or a bad thing, depending on your point of view.

I tried reaching out to Chris a few times and he never responded, and that told me everything I needed to know.  I joined with the free membership to show my support for what he was trying to do, but I moved on.

[Rasz]

They are more of a PBS 'do it yourself' TV channel than a hackerspace. You can watch, but you cant touch.

[MadManMarkAu]

I have to interject here.

TGG is a hackerspace/makerspace. They are currently not open to the public, but members do visit and work on projects. As soon as the building is given full occupancy status by the city inspector, you will be able to go there and work on your own projects.

In fact, the whole motto of TGG is, "We'll hand you a manual, teach you how to use it, make sure you don't kill yourself or the equipment, and you can rock out doing whatever you want."

In the interests of full disclosure, I am a volunteer external staff member for TGG, but my thoughts and opinions are mine, not those of TGG of Chris Boden.

[EEVblog]

I tried reaching out to Chris a few times and he never responded, and that told me everything I needed to know.

I respond 
But then again, I'm a nerd that spends my life on forums 

[Stonent]

I worked till 1am  didn't get to sleep till 5 woke up at 6:50, and now it is 9:15am and am still awake. Looking at my post times you'd think I was on 24/7. I have to be at work again in 7 hours... I'm on when the Americans are on, when Mike in the UK is on and also when Dave is on  ...  I guess the forums are better than sleep   

[ftransform]

I absolutely love their one CNC video where some machinest says something was pussified and then 10 minutes later you get the girl engineer sponsorship hahahhaa.

also chris boden kind of comes off like a psycho, I could see him breaking into someones house and... yea... get good home security if you know that guy... piss him off and you might become a tesla coil conductor in his basement.

[ChrisBoden]

Greetings Dave, gentlemen.

One of my viewers said I should come over here and say Hi.

If anyone has any questions about The Geek Group, our videos, facilities, etc I'm happy to help.

[TerminalJack505]

Hi Chris.

I'm one of your You Tube subscribers.  I don't have any questions for you but I want to say that I agree with the OP.  I've taken offense at some of your responses to You Tube posters before.  Your responses to criticism are unnecessarily hostile.

Personally, I think you seem a little thin-skinned and need to take yourself a little less seriously.

[ChrisBoden]

Are you aware of the non-official videos where we don't have to play by the rules?
I keep a personal blog channel at www.youtube.com/user/Physicsduck where I get to be a lot more....me.
I also do a live show every morning and evening (around 10am and pm eastern time) where anyone (member or not) can interact live via the IRC channel. http://thegeekgroup.org/live/
It's very laid back, an open discussion, and I answer questions that anyone has in regards to, well, whatever.


I don't mind people having opinions about me or the Group at all (regardless of if their positive or negative, that's your opinion). I just wish to make sure that their opinions are founded in fact, that's all. Hate me all you like, just please do so for a valid reason. There are many to choose from.

[SparkyProjects]

Hi everybody !

I don't know if I'm in the right place for this but I have a rant about the YouTube channel "The Geek Group" and it's founder Chris Boden.

Hmm, would you complain to Walmart if you had a problem with Home Depot ?
The right place would TGG forum

I don't personally know anybody from this organisation, this is a personal opinion solely based on videos that I've watched over the years on their YouTube channel. Their content is great, they have a massive collection of video from High Voltage stuff to CNC. They make some donations to charity and they invest in educational spheres for everything that is electronic-related.

This is what TGG is all about ....  Education

But gosh, I don't know, I feel something is going on there. They are super restrictive when it comes to open-world feedback : they have the infamous "Comments may be held for uploader approval." comment system on YouTube, their Forum is very basic and anything a little off-topic or negative is instantly deleted.

As one of the admins on the forum, i was involved with reorganisation of the forum due to using different software, unfortunately a few posts may have got lost, some older posts have been archived, but should be on view.
The ONLY posts that get deleted are spam and advertising, so if you want to post a well constructed rant, go ahead, it can be discussed and changes can be made.

Have you seen the attitude of Chris Boden ? Very bossy, very harsh, very spiteful. I feel that his co-workers do not say a word because they are afraid that Chris will kick them out. I almost feel it's like a sect, cult.

Chris is passionate about the group, maybe this comes off as a bit bossy, because he wants what is right, he is very open, he has been corrected many times by his staff and members, chris will only kick people out for being totally stupid, or degrading the group publically.

Like I said, I could be TOTALLY wrong but this is my opinion based on what I've seen.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it would make more sense to make that opinion to the right people.

To answer a few other things:
When you have sponsors that keep the organisation going, you do not want to upset them, so a certain amount of decorum should be shown.

@ bored@work, target audience ? sure they may target the young teens, but the group is open to everyone, i'm 57, semi retired electrician of over 30 years, but i totally enjoy all they do.
12 years old is a nice age to start with this sort of education, it's about the age i started teaching my grandson about the things i do, their brains still have time to grow, but are old enough to know rght from wrong.

As i said above, i would like to hear from anyone who has constructive advice, but do it in the right place, thanks.

[ftransform]

holy crap that was fast

[duskglow]

Sparky, since he believed that stuff was being deleted from forums, he may have believed that doing it in the right place was futile.

I see things from both points of view here, actually.  I see what Chris is trying to do, I also see the point of his detractors.  He gets points for coming here, though.

Have you guys seen the interview with Jimmy's parents?  He took a 13 year old who loved to play with high voltage under his wing - that kid would have probably killed himself.  Now, true, the interview does come across as just a bit self-aggrandizing, but on the other hand, you can see very clearly what he's trying to accomplish, who his target audience is, and the good he's trying to do.  I don't dismiss him that easily.  I do wish there was a little more accessibility, though.

Everyone has personality flaws, though.

[duskglow]

I respond 
But then again, I'm a nerd that spends my life on forums 

Yes you do, and that's one reason I interact here and send you stuff.  You built a forum where I feel like I can ask stupid questions and not get flamed for it, so there's a lot of value to that.

[maglinvinn]

I am a member of the geek group. 

I could i suppose snark the hell out of most any of these posts, but i'm not going to (which is totally against my nature).

Instead, i'll post my experiences with the group, and let it go from there. 

I joined in Feb 2010, and became almost instantly wrapped into the fold.  For my inquisitive mind, it was in fact 'coming home' of my technologically oriented mind.  At the time, if there were more than 4 people at the lab, it was a party, and an important party, cause 4 people were all that'd show up to even those.  It was very small very familiar and in its own right, quite different from what it is today.

To say that the last 3 years has changed the group, and not just the group, but all the people involved in it, is a vast understatement.  I remember going to the old lab, in a run down part of one of the worst cities in my home state to being allowed into the new lab as one of the first people.  Within 5 minutes of signing, i was one of three people tearing up the floor in MDH because frankly, the awesome could not wait until Chris got there from the realator meeting. 

Dig back a little bit, you'll see me throwing down weekends worth of time tearing into the old jank that was the building and generally juggernauting my way through getting things ready for the new hotness.

Prior to that?  You criticize that the group is a YT thing only and first?  You should have seen behind the scenes when it was a basement thing between the old lab and new.  Cramped hardly covers it.  During that time so many things were lost to theft at the old unsecured building.  More money in copper than what i make in a year was among it.  Donated, to build things, to build awesome, and stolen for some meth addict's fix.  Let me tell you, there was a few number of people turned sour when that became obvious.  I spent a lot of nights working till 4 am at the old building with no heat and no lights in order to tear apart (carefully, and cataloging as i went) with the illustrious Mr. Kidwell main demonstrations.  We would spend the days loading when there were people there to help, and the nights carefully dismantling and staging for the next day.  It was not only hard work, but an incredible learning experience.  I know more about electronics and electricy that i ever imagined possible, and well beyond what i would ever need as 'an average joe'.  It led to me getting one of the best paying jobs in my history, rubbing shoulders with people who graduated MIT and showing them how to install custom hardware and software, and me, a college drop out.  You should have seen their faces when i told them that.  That alone makes the hours grinding away at the labs worth it. 

So now, i got a new job, and a new house, and i don't get to spend as much time at the lab.  I'm a footnote in videos, when they work with metal occasionally, due to my own hobbies.  They're taking what i helped tear down and make ready, and are building the most incredible thing i've frankly ever had the joy to be a part of.  I get to the lab once ever couple months, and aside from the hallways being in the same place, nothing is the same.  Its constantly growing and expanding, and what you don't see on youtube, well, you're missing out.

Meanwhile, the investment of time money and reputation that Chris has put in far outweighs anything i could ever do myself.  I can't spend every day at the lab, its an hour drive away and i gotta pay the bills at home, but even if i could, i could not come close to comparing.  There's a certain amount of charisma and sheer willpower that frankly i use as a source of inspiration when i get a little lazy.   You see someone who's overbearing and bossy.  I see someone who is carving a marble statue from a pile of donated scraps.

I'm three years into my membership, and i have no hard feelings about any and all the time put in.  I may not have a lot of physical stuff to show for it, a shrunken quarter... a 10amp variac for a coil i'm building, a few other nicknacks.  I can't show you what is in my mind though.  I can only tell you about it, and i don't do it justice. 

So instead, i challenge you.  Find the time to come to the lab.  i'll take time out of my schedule to meet you there.  I'd say i'd proove you wrong, but frankly, i wouldn't have to do anything as long as you didn't walk in with a blindfold on. 

You say cult and cultish.  I say rolemodel.  I base my judgement on personal experience, and you base yours on fanboy yt'ery. I see someone touring groups of children around science, letting them touch it, see it, and when they show they're safe enough around it, even play with it.  I watched a 12 year old come in and stop all the conversations cold with his knowledge of things radioactive, while his mother stood there as happy as i've seen a person to find people who are not only knowledgable (about the topic AND the safety around it) but willing to take the time to stop building their own dream and help this kid build his.

Did you read that last sentance slowly and carefully?

To slander and assign names to the group based on off hand and second hand information doesn't do anything helpful for anyone.  I see you guys trying to shame someone who is with their teeth somehow pulling a dream out of impossibility to share science on a scale unheard of with anyone with a passionate desire to learn... and the only person you should try to shame are yourselves.  This thread does nothing but ~attempt~ to devalidate the hours and hours spent working hard to share technology with all people of all ages, and all i gotta do is show this video:

  (25 min) me, first hand, doing demo's for kids.  i've been in the boyscouts and i used to have a job teaching 5th graders after school computers programs.  I"ve never had so many kids absolutely attentative when i talked, and ask so many questions.  I didn't feel like i was making a difference.  I was making a difference.  Find me proof that any of the other hackerspaces have such an incredible response by tomorrow's engineers, and you'll have shown me another hackerspace as awesome as the geek group.

  check out the kid at 4:40.  I haven't seen a kid that profoundly interested in science ... ever.  He couldn't figure out to stand or sit, and spent the rest of the time at the front line, asking and getting interested.  We all should have had such an awesome opportunity as kids.

[SparkyProjects]

  I do wish there was a little more accessibility, though.

TGG couldn't be more accessible, as Chris mentioned above, live shows morning and evening (local time) where people (not just members) can ask Chris questions via IRC, and he will answer them live.
The IRC is populated with all types of people from all over the world.
Many members have control of the internal workings remotely, Mark above for instance can control the cameras, and he's in Austtralia, i also do some behind the scenes work and i'm in the UK.
Personal visitors to the lab (after making sure they are safe) can 'play' with a Kuka KR350 robot for instance.
And of course the forum, and as i said, providing the posts are within normal community guidelines (like it would be here) then the post will not get deleted, we take any suggestion seriously, and if the suggestion is an improvement that can reasonably be made, it will be done.

[MadManMarkAu]

As far as being a cult...

Demons OUT! 

[duskglow]

By accessible, I mean...  at least from the official Geek Group videos, I know very little about Chris.  I know he runs the Geek Group and loves doing geek stuff but that's about it.  I don't know him much as a person, and when I sent him some emails (I know he's a busy guy) telling him how I feel about his project (It was positive, almost gushing) I never got a response.  I don't know if he's married, has kids, whatever.  I don't know him as a *person*.

Yes, there's that other channel and I should seek it out and all my questions might be answered, but at least from his Geek Group videos, he's a personality, not a person.  He projects what I see as a very carefully cultivated image.  I much prefer to interact with people.

When I first found the Geek Group, it was actually a somewhat emotional experience for me.  Here, finally, was a group of people who shared some of the same passions I do - taking stuff apart, building stuff, playing with stuff, just being a geek.  But I actually kind of felt rebuffed in some ways, so I moved on.

All that said, I would love to see a partnership between Dave and Chris.  I think Dave serves a niche that Chris does not and cannot - the REALLY IN DEPTH stuff.  Chris can't explain displacement current and charge pumps.  Dave doesn't want to make his career out of doing autopsies of cheap Chinese toys (I'm guessing).  I think it would be a match made in Atheist heaven.

[SparkyProjects]

When you have a lot of subscribers etc, and consequently loads of messages and emails, and trying to run the group at the same time, it is not always possible to respond to everyone, it could be that your email was put to one side for a future response and forgotten in the madness.
Even Dave admitted in the last blog that he hasn't kept up with one particular topic.
Chris hasn't been on the forum for a while, but anything that is posted and needs his attention I will make sure he sees it.
Personality, yes, he has done radio work in the past, so his presentation experience for official videos matters, but for his personal blog, you get to see more of the real Chris.
Also, he has mellowed a lot, a bit more laid back (except for official work)

In depth autopsies ?
Dave spends a bit of time checking websites to look up things he doesn't know for sure, Chris and the team don't have time for this, they have other work to do, but to many of the members, it's a good insight to how something works.
Dave and Chris have 2 different niches, and it's good to see diversity.
But even this is changing once the lab is open to the public, there will be more interaction with IRC and livestream where members can do the looking up of info during a shoot.

Chris is not married, doesn't have kids, too busy for a start.

[duskglow]

To be clear, I wasn't expecting to be his best friend, but a "thanks for your email, I appreciate it" would have gone a long way - and it wouldn't even have had to have been sent by him.  I sent it to the "info" address.  The impression I got was that because I live in Portland and wasn't ready to donate, that they had no time for me.

That's why I suggested a partnership - I know they have two different niches and I don't think either one would be comfortable doing the other's - but a little crossover would be cool to watch.  I could see it going like this:  "Here's a cheap chinese toy with a voltage doubler... How it works is a little indepth, but if you take a look at this video by Dave Jones he explains it in detail"..   or Dave says "This is a bit elementary for me, but Chris over at The Geek Group autopsied something like this, go check it out if you're interested."

[MadManMarkAu]

I get what you're saying... I've seen this done before with channels like Veritasium, SmarterEveryDay and Numberphile.

[ChrisBoden]

Dusk, I'm really sorry about that. I do get an insane amount of emails from guys like you, and I do try to reply to them all but it's simply impossible. I don't have an agent or a staff of people who fake my autographs, etc. I try to reach out to everyone at least to say "Hi" and sometimes I just cock it up. Sincerely, I apologize.

The image on the Group official channel is very tight, but it's not much of a personality. I'm a truly terrible actor, so I don't even try. They turn the camera on, edit out the swearing, and we post it. The official channel is the only one with any real editing. The live shows and the blogs are all absolutely factual.

As far as knowing things about me personally, well, what would you like to know? I spend my life in front of a camera or on a stage, and I run a company with other people's money, I don't have any secrets, feel free to ask me anything you wish and I'll be happy to answer it here in front of everyone.

As far as doing a partnership with Dave, I'd be honoured to meet him, or you for that matter. Come on over and say Hi sometime.

[jamesp15]

I love the IDEA of the Geek Group.

(before reading below, I have only watched a few of the autopsies, not any of the other stuff from there.)
A tiny bit of background on me: In my free time I teach local kids and even adults that live in my area electronics and _proper_ use of tools and all forms of safety, I am very much a supporter of getting people interested and started in these fields. 
I have seriously considered donating money (to TGG) and possibly equipment (getting my employer to and some of my own stuff) in the past, but the whole impression I got from the autopsy videos was more akin to "amateur hour" than something serious.  Which is not something I want to support (along with the seeming attitude that Chris Boden has).

I am probably not the target audience for the channel but I have watched a few of the "teardowns"/"autopsies" they have done, and I walk away with a not so good impression, especially in what they may be trying to "teach".

He seems to have no idea how to use most tools, incorrect techniques and such.   
He seems to have no real basic awareness of how the thing he is about to take apart works in some cases and the constant "oh yeah, i see now" doesn't go a long way to inspire confidence in what he is saying is actually whats happening/being done in the device. (for the crowd that "doesnt know" and is being shown or "taught". )
If you have time to shoot a segment about a given product, you surely have 10 minutes or so to learn the fundamentals or ideas behind how something works before shooting it? 

Or is the "see I am learning as I go!" the whole idea, in which case the channel definitely isn't targeted towards "me".

[maglinvinn]

The only problem i have with that is that one person can't be expected to know it all.  Instead of say, here at EEV, where all things are electronics, the geek group has a variety of very talented people in different fields, and the space at the lab for those fields, to allow those people to explore and learn, and most importantly share.  The autopsy videos are a very small amount of the videos made by the group.  The woodworking videos are particularly entertaining, even though i don't see myself doing any bowl making.  Meanwhile, iscarr rick is one of the smartest people i know, and just being inthe same space as him has taught me things about machining... the videos only serve as a way to share that with the rest of the world. 

This is kinda like saying that photonic induction is a guy who throws bricks into washers.  What about his HV experiments?  nope.  brick. washer.  hasn't done anything else.

Furthermore, make a suggestion on what videos you'd like to see.  I've seen a number of videos come out simply because someone expressed an interest.

[duskglow]

jamesp15, I think to be fair to Chris, I don't think he's trying to be the expert.  The Geek Group seems to be about discovery, and it's cool to watch him discover along with his audience.  I don't think he really completely knows what he's doing, but he doesn't have to - that's not the point.  I'll find and link a video that gives a better idea of where he's coming from.  He knows enough to not get killed.  But watching them trying to figure that monitor out was hilarious.

Chris, thanks for the apology, I appreciate it.  If I'm in the Grand Rapids area I'll certainly come around, it would be nice to meet you, if possible.  Thanks for coming by and engaging, even if this is something of a harsh thread.  Engineers can be that way.

[duskglow]

This is a video that I found VERY enlightening - it was the video that gave me an insight into what Chris is really trying to accomplish.  I've seen videos with Jimmy in them - that is a kid that really does need to be reigned in - he'd probably stick a screwdriver into a flyback if someone wasn't there to stop him.  Chris is directing him in a direction that means he'll see his 18th birthday.

This is the video that helped me to understand who his target audience is, why he's doing it, and what he's hoping to accomplish.  At least partly, anyway.   The high production values kind of turned me off, it felt a bit self-aggrandizing, but it was still a good video even in spite of all that.

[SparkyProjects]

As the video above was an 'Official' video, it had to be presented in a clear way, and answer not just the questions that couple had, but questions other parents may have.
It's reassurance to parents that anyone with little knowledge can be mentored by respected members of the group, even remote members.
About 4 years ago i knew what a Tesla coil was, but wasn't sure about building them, even though i had 'messed about' with burner transformers as part of my job, and now i spend a lot of time taking newbies step by step if needed so they can understand about how it works, and the safety measures involved.
The main target might be young teens, but the secondary target is anyone else, especially the parents of the young teens, so they too can understand what ther child is doing.

[jamesp15]

I guess that I am just not in the target audience.

I dont expect expert level knowledge or someone to "know it all", but gathering some basic knowledge or research going into the teardown would help with the overall experience IMO.  But I am just some guy on the internet and thats just my opinion.  I know there is more content than the autopsies on there, but they are the only thing that they do that interested me in any way...

The idea behind it all I am all for and help in any way I can with local groups/people on my own time and costs.   I just have issues with their (The Geek Group) implementation of the small  part of it that I see.

[expertmax1]

I knew it ! People from The Geek Group subscribed only to reply to this topic ! Now you see what I mean ?

The Geek Group is a sect, reaching people who are into electronics and science who wants to feel accepted and then they are addicted to the club and they are bossed by Chris, then they don't argue because they love the place.

This is my opinion based on facts that I've seen ! I knew it all along ! Why rant on the EEVBlog ? Because I know this is a free-speech forum, thanks Dave for that !

[duskglow]

Uhh, we brought them into it, would you expect them not to respond?

[expertmax1]

Uhh, we brought them into it, would you expect them not to respond?

Not necessarily ! Usually people respond when they want to make sure to keep something hidden. This is reverse-psychology.

[duskglow]

So they responded to hide the fact that they're a "sect"/"cult"?

Dude, I grew up in a real honest to gosh doomsday the-world-is-going-to-end-so-send-us-all-your-money cult.  My cultdar is as finely honed as the soldering blade tip I used today.  This ain't no cult.  Generally, when you're in a group, you try not to piss off the dude who organized the whole thing, that's just normal.  Can Chris be overbearing?  I'm sure.  But that doesn't mean that it's a bunch of brainwashed people running around in fear of getting kicked out of the group.

[c4757p]

He responded to participate in a discussion and answer questions about himself. Don't be a prick about it and make him regret it.

[duskglow]

He responded to participate in a discussion and answer questions about himself. Don't be a prick about it and make him regret it.

No matter what one thinks about him and his group, he does deserve credit for this.  He could have just written this whole forum off and stuck to his, created a thread talking smack about us, and started a feud.

[expertmax1]

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

[tinhead]

The Geek Group

was/is and will stay forever one of the biggest ever "waste of time" crap youtube channels ... unless you in the target group, as said here

This is the video that helped me to understand who his target audience is

i will however not spend any time on that, nor my kids (they have to watch SG-1, SGU and BG series; Nat Geo and Hisotry Channel; these are much more useful than such crap youtube channels)

[SparkyProjects]

I knew it ! People from The Geek Group subscribed only to reply to this topic ! Now you see what I mean ?

The Geek Group is a sect, reaching people who are into electronics and science who wants to feel accepted and then they are addicted to the club and they are bossed by Chris, then they don't argue because they love the place.

This is my opinion based on facts that I've seen ! I knew it all along ! Why rant on the EEVBlog ? Because I know this is a free-speech forum, thanks Dave for that !

You are welcome to have your free speech either in the forum, or in IRC during one of the shows.

Cult:
1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Not necessarily religious in the usual term, but when you follow someone on Youtube like Dave or anyone else, aren't you in a way worshipping them ?
You follow everything they do, you use their teachings as an exmple of how you will live your life.
If you have a youtube channel etc, don't people follow you too ?

[duskglow]

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

I agree you have your opinion.  I don't see quite as many facts.  I particularly am not a fan of the way you are implying malicious motives to someone who obviously is, at the extreme worst case very uncharitable worst, misguided*.  But I'll agree to disagree.

* I am not saying he is.  I am saying that even if one wants to assume the very worst about all of his actions and efforts, that is the worst word I think could actually be said to apply.

[SparkyProjects]

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

Well that's one thing about Chris and TGG, if you have facts, be prepared to back them up, lay your cards on the table, would be interesting what facts you actually have.

[expertmax1]

...

I think the issue is the language barrier. I am not a native English speaker so the way I write my sentences may not be the way I would have wrote them in my native language !

Cult:
1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

I meant to say "sect". Again, language barrier.

This is your opinion, I have my opinion and facts. That's it.

Well that's one thing about Chris and TGG, if you have facts, be prepared to back them up, lay your cards on the table, would be interesting what facts you actually have.

Do I need to ? No ! The goal of this topic was to get people's opinion about The Geek Group, not mine.

You are welcome to have your free speech either in the forum, or in IRC during one of the shows.

What about YouTube comments ? I don't understand why you would want to control what is said on YouTube videos knowing that it is your main source of attraction. Your videos barely gets a 1000 views a week after they are uploaded, there is a reason for that. If people feel they are not welcomed or they can't say what they have to say, well they will look somewhere else.

[duskglow]

I think the issue is the language barrier. I am not a native English speaker so the way I write my sentences may not be the way I would have wrote them in my native language !

I hope so, because what you're writing in English is actually rather insulting.  I have known, sometimes personally, some truly heinous religious leaders, who cared nothing about the people they were "in charge of" except for how they could line their own pockets with the money of the credulous.  To lump Chris in with that kind of evil is, to me, an insult to Chris, and an insult to the true victims of cult abuse, which, as I mentioned, I have quite a bit of first hand experience with.

I'm not 100% on board with The Geek Group, never have been, and I don't think that I'm their primary targeted audience, though I think there are still some interesting things I can take away from it, and maybe even contribute.  But I'm not going to demean and insult Chris just because he's doing something that is not completely directed to me, and I find the idea that people do find it so easy to insult him to be a little disturbing.  If you don't like what he's doing, great, that's your right, I support your right to not like what he's doing.  But why is there this personal animosity?  It doesn't make any sense to me.

[expertmax1]

There's nothing personal. And c'mon I did not insult Chris and any victims of cult abuse, you are overreacting. You are seeing  where there's none.

[duskglow]

I'm only reacting to the words you used.  I am pleased to know that those were not the words you intended to use.

[ChrisBoden]

No, we're totally a cult.
http://youtu.be/RzzkB0DouCg

Now settle down and drink your Kool Aide.

[duskglow]

What is thy bidding, my master?

[duskglow]

Oh, and Chris - the Monty Python reference?  Well done.

[lemmegraphdat]

Annoying as hell.

[ChrisBoden]

Btw, I'll be doing the live show an hour earlier this evening, starting at 2100h Eastern time (that's in about 39 minutes as I write this). I sincerely welcome everyone here (especially with disagreeable opinions of me/the Group) to join. Hop in the IRC discussion and ask me anything you wish in realtime. I will gladly answer any questions you like. I'm sure that Sparky or someone can post the links and details. I referenced them earlier in this thread. You can find the easy way there simply by going to http://thegeekgroup.org/live/ but I know there are better ways.

Everyone is welcome. Ask questions, demand evidence, think critically! I don't mind people that disagree with me, or even hate me. But I deeply dislike those with strong opinions about that which they don't understand.

[EEVblog]

They are super restrictive when it comes to open-world feedback : they have the infamous "Comments may be held for uploader approval." comment system on YouTube

IMO (as a full time youtuber of course) enabling that option is tantamount to channel suicide.
There is little upside in doing that.
As I see it:
1) It restricts your community input and participation. Which also means people are less likely to return and contribute.
2) It affects your youtube search ranking, which is a big part of a continuous view/income stream if you aspire to do this full time.
3) It rubs people the wrong way and potentially drives them away, as has been demonstrated here. Ditto the 2nd part of 2)

If anyone is doing this because:
1) They think their channel will look more "professional" to their advertisers or sponsors
or
2) They are being pressured by their advertisers or sponsors to keep up some sort of "clean" imagine.

Then in either case, IMO you will ultimately end up losing.
Because you either continually live in fear of doing something that pisses of your advertisers or sponsors (sometime that fear may not even be warranted and is entirely self imposed), or you are under their thumb.
I can only speak for myself of course, and in my case, I have made sure I never put myself in either position, many times at the potential future success of the channel. Because if that happens that's the day I throw in the towel, I may as well be working for The Man.
I see it as one of those slippery slopes, or thin edge of the wedge. The instant you start letting your advertisers or sponsors dictate what you say, how you say things, or expect a certain level of delivery or content, to quote Yoda - forever will it dominate your destiny.

I've had quite a few potential advertisers and/or sponsors (e.g. donate equipment) try to dictate various things over the years, and in every case I have told them to bugger off. Some have buggered off, some have eventually relented and agree to play by my rules.
And I think I'm much better off and have stringer channel and brand now for doing that.

[EEVblog]

Are you aware of the non-official videos where we don't have to play by the rules?

May I ask:
1) what rules you need to play by?
2) who is imposing those rules?
3) why do you think you need to play by them?

[electronics_guy]

http://thegeekgroup.org/about-2/corporate-documents/bylaws/

Read it.  Decide for yourself, compare and contrast to a cult.

[c4757p]

http://thegeekgroup.org/about-2/corporate-documents/bylaws/

Read it.  Decide for yourself, compare and contrast to a cult.

This appears to have as much in common with anything cult-related as it has in common with a lasagna. Looks like your standard, run-of-the-mill club bylaws document.

[EEVblog]

No, we're totally a cult.
http://youtu.be/RzzkB0DouCg

  

[Sprocket777]

I do have to say, I am against the reviewing youtube comments policy. I am on Dave's side with this one.

I have been a "background" member of the geek group for a while. I have been in and out of the forums, I watch the official videos and blog when they come out, and have emailed chris a while back on some opinion questions. I am a supporter of the group, however I do not agree with many of the official video formats. I know they try to do "off the cuff" stuff, especially the autopsies, but it comes off as unprofessional. Some of the autopsy videos, I cringe when Chris yells or does something stupid in the videos, however it is just his personality. They are working on getting a teleprompter for use in official videos, which I think will help a lot.

I was dragged into the geek group while a young teenager, thus being in that teen audience. I saw the musical tesla coil video from way back, and almost visited the k-zoo lab back when my parents would need to drive me there. Now, I live less than an hour away from the lab, and I haven't made my way out to the new GR lab, mainly because of time, but also because they are starting to seem like a sponsor oriented orientation. I don't support that system. I understand they get a lot of their funding from sponsors, but they should be sponsoring the organization to keep doing what they are doing, not because they want publicity. It was mentioned earlier about the Iscar and Haas placement in the CNC videos, that is a prime example. The CNC videos should be made for learning general CNC using the Haas and Iscar tool available for them. Use those to teach, not to advertise. I know some of the reason for the CNC videos is because Haas wanted them for training videos, but those should be released on a Haas channel in that case.

Enough with the short rant, but I sincerely like the group. I give when I can, and respond to posts in the forums when I am knowledgeable about the questions. I am excited to see the laser lab come alive, and I hope to get the chance to give my expertise on holograms and other optics stuff.

I do have to say, I laugh when Chris talks about holograms and how many cool things can be done with the lasers, then they get super excited when they can reflect a green beam a bunch or hook it up to some galvos and project patterns on the wall. Science, huh? What I would like to see from the optics lab, is a set of optics videos covering the topics outlined in an intro to physics course at the college level. I think these done professionally, not off the cuff, would net a lot of views and publicity for the geek group. Anyways, my opinion.

Geek Group: keep building awesome
EEVblog: Keep educating the world on electronics!

[duskglow]

I'm going to say it one more time and then I'll not say this particular thing again.  And I'm going to be just a little bit strongly worded because this is something that is very important to me:  Calling TGG a cult or comparing it to a cult in any way is one of the most ignorant and offensive things I have ever heard on this forum, though admittedly I haven't been here for long.

There are plenty of criticisms you can level on TGG that are valid.  This one just makes the person stating it look like a fool.

TGG is not a cult.  End of story.  I'm asking this as someone without any authority, but please stop using such inflammatory language, it's not helping.

[Stonent]

If you'd like to see an interesting optics video, look at the green laser video that Mikeselectricstuff did. He tested the strength and showed why it was showing much higher than rated, then ran it through a device to split the spectrum out into component parts and showed where the IR part was affecting the reading. Very neat.



Right about 15:23 in to the video is where the optics part comes in.

[SparkyProjects]

The CNC videos should be made for learning general CNC using the Haas and Iscar tool available for them. Use those to teach, not to advertise. I know some of the reason for the CNC videos is because Haas wanted them for training videos, but those should be released on a Haas channel in that case.

A series of shor CNC videeos were started, but there will be a whole new series, basically anyone who wants to know how to do a ceratain task, or wants to know about bits will be able to find the video on youtube and learn that process, this will be hundreds of videos  on each machine, so yes the HAAS machine and Iscar tools vids will be educational to new and old CNC users.

[Smokey]

...If anyone is doing this because:
1) They think their channel will look more "professional" to their advertisers or sponsors
or
2) They are being pressured by their advertisers or sponsors to keep up some sort of "clean" imagine.

Edited or not edited, I don't think you post stuff like this if you are trying to keep a clean professional image...


and this one.   Skip to 7 minutes.  It's all downhill from there.


I personally think this stuff is super funny, and it does appear to be his own personal channel, but when you are the public face or something youth oriented... well...

[ChrisBoden]

May I ask:
1) what rules you need to play by?

Entirely too many. Please keep in mind that it's not just me and a camera anymore, there's an entire production team involved. The days of shooting a video in the afternoon, editing in the evening, and posting overnight are long since gone from the main channel (though I do still do the blogs myself). I have to appease the Board, the video team (I have a director, and she is mean as hell and throws things at me, she also denies me food, help me, please), sponsors, etc. The videos on the main channel are in a state of growing pains right now as we bring our professionalism up significantly. You're about to see a lot of very different content from what you're used to on here. Some of it will take us back to our early days, some of it will be vastly superior to what we've done so far.

2) who is imposing those rules?

Me (I do get a vote around here), the Director, the staff, members, viewers, sponsors, foundations, the Development team, the PR team, the legal team and on occasion the dog.


3) why do you think you need to play by them?

Because I want to make a difference. I want to leave a legacy. I want to change the world. I'm not just doing YouTube videos for fun, this is a small (albeit very important) part of a much larger overarching enterprise. We operate the largest Makerspace in the world (and the oldest, open since 1994). I'm not just an idiot with a camera anymore, I'm an idiot at the tail of a multimillion dollar non-profit. This is why I don't get to have a blue mohawk, or swear, or carry a gun, or set dumpsters on fire, etc. I have to be professional. Some days I even wear a tie.


On the Comments thing, well, our commentators are likely very different from yours. We pass about 80% of them. The 20% or so we don't approve are ones that are derogatory (we have a lot of females around here, and some dudes are either very mean, or very creepy), or just plain stupid. Comments that are not positive or productive, we delete. I have no problems with people hating us or having a differing opinion, but that doesn't mean that they get to thrash on me on my dime. If they want to hate us, they can make their own videos on their own channel. It's a free internet. The ones that get the most cranky are the ones that rage on us for not teaching jesus, the ones that get pissed when we won't give them Moose or Liz's email/phone numbers/bra size, and the ones who want to tell us that our cameras/lighting/audio sucks. I assure you, we know it sucks, and we're working to do better. They want to bitch about it, but they don't want to donate to help get a new camera, or better lights, etc, they just want to bitch. Decisions are made by those that show up; I have little use for trools, and for those that only want to piss and moan. We're here to work, to make a substantial difference in the world. I support anyone who wants to help inspire people (It's why I like Dave ), but I have no use for whiners. That's why we moderate comments. If it costs me viewers, well if they're that shallow as to be offended, and they can't find one of the 20 other ways to interact and be heard by myself and the staff, then they aren't people I want as viewers anyways.

[EEVblog]

I know they try to do "off the cuff" stuff, especially the autopsies, but it comes off as unprofessional. Some of the autopsy videos, I cringe when Chris yells or does something stupid in the videos, however it is just his personality. They are working on getting a teleprompter for use in official videos, which I think will help a lot.

I just got my arse chewed off for being "unprofessional" in the latest Tekway video by getting some operational stuff wrong.
Like people expect everything that come out of my channel to be 100% professional, refined, and checked. Even a bumbling first impressions video 
I have not watched Chris's videos, but if anyone is criticising him for being unprofessional or being himself in what is effectively a live(?) show (even if post edited), I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

[duskglow]

I really don't want to see either Dave or Chris in a wet t-shirt.

[ChrisBoden]

Thank you DAve, you get it.

As far as the cat video, that was hilarious and I don't regret a thing. It's a personal video we did for a laugh years ago. I'd do it again tomorrow (on my personal channel of course) without a moments hesitation. This time though, I'd use flea dip and scrub the pussy, not shave it (that was hard).

The second video (which is over 3 years old btw) was entirely factual. It was from the early days of us making serious videos and it shows EXACTLY what happens when it all goes sideways. Laugh at me all you want, I'm NOT a God, I'm NOT a genius, I'm just a guy like everyone else. We get them wrong sometimes. That one was SO wrong that I posted it for comedic value. It's been on national television more times than I can count, I don't regret it at all. It's THERE for you to laugh at, enjoy it. I laugh too, every time someone sends me a check for using it on their TV show.

[ChrisBoden]

Aw hell I'll do it if he will. Come on over Dave and we'll shoot a video on anything you want.

All I ask is we use warm water if we do the t-shirt thing.

[Monkeh]

I really don't want to see either Dave or Chris in a wet t-shirt.

I've seen Chris out of a t-shirt.  I am somewhat traumatised.

[duskglow]

I just participated in TGG live, along with a few other forum members, and I realized that, y'know, Chris and Dave have different foci, different goals, different methods, and frankly, even different cultures.  And that's OK.  Dave does things the way he likes, Chris does things they way he he wants (along with the team), and each has a large following that is suited to their particular offerings.

And that's OK!  It really is!  I love the videos that Dave offers, I like what TGG does, there's room for everyone.  I'm sure all of us have better things to do than whine about how an organization that we have nothing to do with does things.  Some people here don't like TGG, some do, some don't care, and that's really OK.

We're all people, after all.  We're all geeks.  As a major philosopher of the 20th century said once, "Can't we all just get along?" 

Thanks to both Dave and Chris, btw, for engaging and keeping it civil with each other.  I really think both of you have things to offer each other.  I would love to see how that turns out, if it does.

[Sprocket777]

I know they try to do "off the cuff" stuff, especially the autopsies, but it comes off as unprofessional. Some of the autopsy videos, I cringe when Chris yells or does something stupid in the videos, however it is just his personality. They are working on getting a teleprompter for use in official videos, which I think will help a lot.

I just got my arse chewed off for being "unprofessional" in the latest Tekway video by getting some operational stuff wrong.
Like people expect everything that come out of my channel to be 100% professional, refined, and checked. Even a bumbling first impressions video 
I have not watched Chris's videos, but if anyone is criticising him for being unprofessional or being himself in what is effectively a live(?) show (even if post edited), I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

I understand what you are saying Dave, and I more or less agree. The thing is, the group's goal of their official videos is to produce a professional video (correct me if I'm wrong Chris) and to inspire others to get them interested in science and technology. The content of their videos is usually excellent, but it is those random bits of madness and stupidity which act as a turn off for viewers. I am not criticizing the fact that Chris acts like that, but the fact that it makes it into the edited professional videos is what gets me. Keep in mind, this is a group of people acting to serve a greater purpose, not Chris. When I criticize the group's video's, I am not criticizing Chris. He should keep acting as he does! It gives personality to stuff!

There is a time for off the cuff videos, which is often. But for example, the MIDI interrupter video, that is an instructional video with the purpose of teaching. By having Chris say in the beginning, "I don't really know how to solder," then continue on to teach us how to put together the new kit, it doesn't relay the intended message. When the show isn't effectively live, it is a realistic expectation.

[ChrisBoden]

I totally agree. We're both two guys on the same side fighting the war against stupid. We're each doing it in our own way, and each has his groove. I would like to personally invite Dave to come tour our labs, and, if he wishes, to be in a video together. Dave, you can pick the topic and genre, anything you like. I would be honoured to have you come play.

Have fun guys, and thank you for a fun and interesting discussion.

Chris Boden

[EEVblog]

And that's OK!  It really is!  I love the videos that Dave offers, I like what TGG does, there's room for everyone.  I'm sure all of us have better things to do than whine about how an organization that we have nothing to do with does things.  Some people here don't like TGG, some do, some don't care, and that's really OK.

Betcha I have more haters! 
 

[EEVblog]

I would like to personally invite Dave to come tour our labs, and, if he wishes, to be in a video together. Dave, you can pick the topic and genre, anything you like. I would be honoured to have you come play.

Thanks for the invite, but there is a small problem of 15,000km or so.

[wi6971lly]

I would like to personally invite Dave to come tour our labs, and, if he wishes, to be in a video together. Dave, you can pick the topic and genre, anything you like. I would be honoured to have you come play.

Thanks for the invite, but there is a small problem of 15,000km or so.

Could always do it over skype or something

[EEVblog]

I understand what you are saying Dave, and I more or less agree. The thing is, the group's goal of their official videos is to produce a professional video (correct me if I'm wrong Chris) and to inspire others to get them interested in science and technology.

If that's the case, then yes, they could be pushing up expectations with that.

The content of their videos is usually excellent, but it is those random bits of madness and stupidity which act as a turn off for viewers.

How do you know that?
How can you speak for others?
Be careful about assuming what other people think and want.
If there is one thing I have learned in this whole endeavour it's that everyone wants and expects something different. As a content producer, it's an impossible position.

I am not criticizing the fact that Chris acts like that, but the fact that it makes it into the edited professional videos is what gets me.

Once again, I have not seen the videos. But from my own experience the reasons for that could be several. If you chop it out you can lose the flow of the video, and possibly some context further on in the video.
Also, it's usually not practical to go back and re-shoot stuff, you usually have to "make do" with whatever footage you shot.
It's always a tough call about whether to leave that stuff in or not.

Keep in mind, this is a group of people acting to serve a greater purpose, not Chris. When I criticize the group's video's, I am not criticizing Chris. He should keep acting as he does! It gives personality to stuff!

Bingo!
You want him to have and show personality in the video, but you want the personality you expect and approve of.
I hope you can see how that's not quite practical, unless he was shooting the videos just for you

There is a time for off the cuff videos, which is often. But for example, the MIDI interrupter video, that is an instructional video with the purpose of teaching. By having Chris say in the beginning, "I don't really know how to solder," then continue on to teach us how to put together the new kit, it doesn't relay the intended message. When the show isn't effectively live, it is a realistic expectation.

I though all his official videos were effectively "live" for the streaming audience?
if that's the case then as I said, you can't just go back and shoot stuff, it's a whole different ball game.

[expertmax1]

Oh please Dave, do not change the way you film/edit your stuff, it just works !  O0

[EEVblog]

Oh please Dave, do not change the way you film/edit your stuff, it just works !  O0

That's just your opinion! 
For every hundred telling me that, I have a hundred telling me the opposite.
At least when I worked for The Man, I only had one boss 

[Bored@Work]

I really don't want to see either Dave or Chris in a wet t-shirt.

We have seen Dave and a multimeter getting wet together. Don't ask ...

[duskglow]

We have seen Dave and a multimeter getting wet together. Don't ask ...

Oh that?  That was just a fluke.

[smashedProton]

Bahahahahaha!   Nice one. 



Aaaaand this thread is derailed.  This thread wasn't as fun as the IGBT one I did a whike back though

[Rasz]

multimillion dollar non-profit

So in the end its all about the cheese. I think the term is selling out.
How much for a say in your enterprise? Could I for example remove all women from premises for a cool $mill/year donation? or 2 $mill/year for making them wear Hijabs? I am joking of course, but It does sound like you are primarily focused on money instead of community (at least online one). Main YT channel is a promotional vehicle for advertisers and this is why this thread got started (i think?).
I remember watching some of your videos a long time ago (2 years? maybe 5? you still wore pistol on your belt) and It always seemed as 'here look at all the cool stuff we have/build, donate!"

I really don't want to see either Dave or Chris in a wet t-shirt.

Why? Dave has a great climbers body

[EEVblog]

Main YT channel is a promotional vehicle for advertisers

People say that about my channel and test gear manufacturers 

[GK]

...If anyone is doing this because:
1) They think their channel will look more "professional" to their advertisers or sponsors
or
2) They are being pressured by their advertisers or sponsors to keep up some sort of "clean" imagine.

Edited or not edited, I don't think you post stuff like this if you are trying to keep a clean professional image...

I also think this was a disappointing video.
 

[Bored@Work]

Well, people running around with guns, claiming they want to make a difference, want to leave a legacy, want to change the world and want to fight stupidity make me nervous. But that is probably only me.

Seeing some of the tactics The Geek Group applies here in the discussions^* I think it is a good idea to continue to stay away from them.


* To immediately send out the goons for support. To immediately monopolize others with the "you are one of us" tactic.

[Monkeh]

Well, people running around with guns, claiming they want to make a difference, want to leave a legacy, want to change the world and want to fight stupidity make me nervous. But that is probably only me.

Oh, you're not alone in being deathly afraid of simple tools, trust me.

Seeing some of the tactics The Geek Group applies here in the discussions^* I think it is a good idea to continue to stay away from them.


* To immediately send out the goons for support. To immediately monopolize others with the "you are one of us" tactic.

What makes you think they were 'sent out'?

[duskglow]

Actually, I think it was the opposite - someone who is a member of both groups (it wasn't me) saw it, and immediately said "Hey Chris, take a look at this", and then it went from there.  It seemed more bottom up to me.

[c4757p]

* To immediately send out the goons for support. To immediately monopolize others with the "you are one of us" tactic.

I think you're being overly cynical.

[duskglow]

I think you're being overly cynical.

And I REALLY don't understand where all the animus comes from.  I acknowledge that the group has its positives and negatives, and I am careful not to paint a rosy picture, but some of the things said and inferred about them border on the incomprehensible.  Maybe I'm just missing something, I'm not known for being the most socially... ept?

[Monkeh]

Actually (digging back a bit, here), Chris asked people not to jump in and defend him.

[c4757p]

I do a lot of things people ask me not to do.

[ChrisBoden]

Guys, he's a troll, you're better than that. Don't feed into the stupidity. He's just looking to pick a fight, it's your choice to hand it to him or not. Think for yourselves, ask questions, demand evidence. Critical thinking works.

[c4757p]

Guys, he's a troll, you're better than that.

Now you're being the asshole. Don't be so quick to dismiss someone as a troll just because they seem a bit curmudgeonly. He's got enough of a history here to show that he's not a troll, just an often rather amusing grouch. And while I don't think he's right about your motivations, all I can say is that your history goes farther to prove his point than his does to prove yours, so watch where you throw the accusations.

[duskglow]

Chris, as much as I've been willing to defend you and your group, that kinda doesn't help.   Please don't make that job difficult.  The guy you are calling a "troll" has about 2,500 posts on this forum, and you have about 10 (I didn't look at the number before replying).

I completely agree that we should think for ourselves, and everyone here is obviously doing so.  Sometimes you may or may not agree with their conclusions, but they are.

[smashedProton]

Ill be up front about it and day that I was the eevblog member who tipped off chris.  I thought that the group deserved accurate representation.   I didn't want the thread to turn into a one sided debate. 

I have benefited tremendously from both the eevblog forum and the geek group.  On the floor of my room stands a tesla coil secondary.  And up on my desk, I have a diy cc power supply.

It doesnt matter if videos have innopropriate humour or not.  Dave says sex on a stick all the time and everyone just loves it. 

[c4757p]

It doesnt matter if videos have innopropriate humour or not.  Dave says sex on a stick all the time and everyone just loves it.

To play devil's advocate - Chris is the one who says he's worried about his image, so different rules about appropriate content apply.

To return to my normal self - I'm incredibly puerile, so the more inappropriate jokes it has, the more I'm likely to enjoy it...

[duskglow]

smashedProton, I will say right up front that I think you did the right thing, and I probably would have if it'd occurred to me.  It didn't, though.  I have no problem with Chris - or any of his buddies/fellow geek members/whatever coming around and giving their point of view.  That doesn't bother me at all, and I don't see that as any kind of evidence of some kind of nefarious purpose.  That completely befuddles me.

Not too keen on Chris's last comment, but I'm willing to chalk that up to not being familiar with the group, based on any further responses.

[c4757p]

Not too keen on Chris's last comment, but I'm willing to chalk that up to not being familiar with the group, based on any further responses.

There are a few members on here (I won't name names  ) who I suspected as trolls at first too. You're probably right. I knew enough not to say it, though...

[duskglow]

Yes, when I suspect someone as being a troll, I look at their post count.  If it's really high, I change my opinion from "troll" to "idiot".  I won't name names either.   If you didn't look at the post count, it's really easy to make that mistake.

I've only said it once, and that was when some advice was given that I considered to be utterly dangerous.

[smashedProton]

Maybe both groups can be co-dependant.  And people can learn sstc at the eevblog

[duskglow]

I think it would be a good fit, but I don't think it's going to happen.  Dave's and Chris's personalities are too different, in my opinion.

I also think considering some of the hostility here it would be a tough sell and cause some damage.

[smashedProton]

Not too keen on Chris's last comment, but I'm willing to chalk that up to not being familiar with the group, based on any further responses.

There are a few members on here (I won't name names  ) who I suspected as trolls at first too. You're probably right. I knew enough not to say it, though...

You must mean the keefs, sgtrock, and myself!

[c4757p]

Ah, you picked some hard ones there. Keef - on the fence between "troll" and "argumentative, blithering idiot". SgtRock - on the fence between "troll" and "part-time troll who's fun to do battle with". And I'm not even going to try with you... 

[duskglow]

There is only one person I haven't figured out so far.  I will not name names but his initials sound like a child's word for urination.  I haven't yet figured out whether he deliberately trolls, spreads misinformation, or truly believes what he says.  Otherwise, everyone gets the benefit of the doubt, whether or not I agree with them.  So far.

[c4757p]

Anyway.... so... about that Geek Group...

We should have an animated graphic of a train running off its tracks, or perhaps a little plot of a tangent.

[duskglow]

EDIT:  Somehow between the time I posted this and now, the account got terminated.  Hah.

Here ya go!

[Smokey]

I like this one since it brings up the concept of where the tangent left the arc. 

" Yup, that post about unicorns was the point of tangency"

[c4757p]

I tried my hand at an animation of a circle diverging onto a tangent, but it was literally the first animated GIF I'd ever drawn, so it looked like poo. I put it in the toilet where all poo belongs.

[smackaay]

I know this a bit of an old thread but I just got acquainted with GeekGroup videos. This Chris Boden guy seems somewhat knowledgeable about stuff but is also lazy and uninformed. I have seen him:

• Hammer the tip of a screwdriver with a hammer in between batteries
• Use a hammer on the head of another hammer!
• Spend ten minutes boasting his lock picking skills and then ultimately fail
• Use pry bars on lead acid batteries
• scream and yell in weird ways without it being amusing or funny
• Perform pointless tests on equipment, like way off tangent
• order his comrade around to remove pop from a machine for 7 minutes, leave it in final edit

 

I don't mind their videos but they are of limited value to anyone and Chris Boden, while he may be enthused has more vigor than skill. While Dave may seem unprofessional due to his jokes or whatever, I would still have Dave work on any project anywhere in the world. This Chris guy seems like the kind of guy I wouldn't trust to clean a kitchen. Dave provides information, his own opinion and often some backstory. This guy provides very little of the sort.

I normally wouldn't rag on a guy just trying to do his thing but I just watched his equipment autopsy #50 (uninterruptable power supply) and I was absolutely embarrassed for him and the people filming it. Just watch it and you'll see. I watched a bunch of other videos and they were OK but many were of limited value or were strange in application but this one took the cake.

Maybe I'm being a bit picky but it was more like a brutal vivisection than an autopsy.

[Psi]

I know this a bit of an old thread but I just got acquainted with GeekGroup videos. This Chris Boden guy seems somewhat knowledgeable about stuff but is also lazy and uninformed. I have seen him:

• Hammer the tip of a screwdriver with a hammer in between batteries
• Use a hammer on the head of another hammer!

 

It's his UPS/Hammar/Screwdriver  if he wants to smash things with a hammer why does it matter? 

Sometime it's faster to use the wrong tool, and infact - in those cases it's common to have a multiple tools so you can dedicate one for being used the wrong way. That way you can use it any way you need and also prevent anything important being ruined.

Side cutters are a good example. You have a really good pair and a cheap pair which you use when you're worried the expensive pair might get damaged because your cutting something a bit oversized.

In fact, using tools the wrong way is how new tools get invented

[EEVblog]

While Dave may seem unprofessional due to his jokes or whatever

My blog was always meant be an opinionated personal blog, it was never intended to be "professional" in any way.

[EEVblog]

Side cutters are a good example. You have a really good pair and a cheap pair which you use when you're worried the expensive pair might get damaged because your cutting something a bit oversized.

Funny you mention that, as I mention precisely that in my next video which is uploaded but not released.

[Legit-Design]

I'm really glad Dave doesn't do videos like this
all they do is assemble the kit.
They have their place, but for most people it's neither educational nor funny. They have the guy who supposedly designed the thing and that cool schematic view/animations, he explains the circuit, but that part could have been separate video. I don't want to watch this guy trying figure how to bend leads on components or solder or which component is what. But I know there might be people who want to watch that. Every other part of their videos seems good quality except Chris Boden.

[jancumps]

I'm really glad Dave doesn't do videos like this
all they do is assemble the kit.
They have their place, but for most people it's neither educational nor funny. They have the guy who supposedly designed the thing and that cool schematic view/animations, he explains the circuit, but that part could have been separate video. I don't want to watch this guy trying figure how to bend leads on components or solder or which component is what. But I know there might be people who want to watch that. Every other part of their videos seems good quality except Chris Boden.

Doesn' the responsibility in the end belong to the viewer? it's impossible for a content creator to make something that appeals to all. It's perfectly doable for a viewer to only keep watching the things that appeal to herself.

[smackaay]

I know this a bit of an old thread but I just got acquainted with GeekGroup videos. This Chris Boden guy seems somewhat knowledgeable about stuff but is also lazy and uninformed. I have seen him:

• Hammer the tip of a screwdriver with a hammer in between batteries
• Use a hammer on the head of another hammer!

 

It's his UPS/Hammar/Screwdriver  if he wants to smash things with a hammer why does it matter? 

Sometime it's faster to use the wrong tool, and infact - in those cases it's common to have a multiple tools so you can dedicate one for being used the wrong way. That way you can use it any way you need and also prevent anything important being ruined.

Side cutters are a good example. You have a really good pair and a cheap pair which you use when you're worried the expensive pair might get damaged because your cutting something a bit oversized.

In fact, using tools the wrong way is how new tools get invented

That kind of logic is fine if there is truly no other way to remove something. However in those examples he was trying to remove batteries from a UPS. He completely ignored the screws on the case and grunted and groaned for five minutes, potentially damaging his tools in the process. He was more like an ape trying to open a puzzle box with brute force than a man with skill gently coaxing it open.

Sure, who am I to say what kind of tools he uses? But I watched him and was screaming "Remove the screws!". I've watched other videos of his and most of them are OK. Perhaps I don't like him because he's so painfully unfunny, I don't know.

[Things]

The thing I always find amusing about discussions of this nature, both on forums and YouTube comments, is it seems people are always being forced into watching videos they don't enjoy.

Even on my tiny YouTube channel I get regular comments about my videos being boring, so don't farking watch them.

[Legit-Design]

I'm really glad Dave doesn't do videos like this
all they do is assemble the kit.
They have their place, but for most people it's neither educational nor funny. They have the guy who supposedly designed the thing and that cool schematic view/animations, he explains the circuit, but that part could have been separate video. I don't want to watch this guy trying figure how to bend leads on components or solder or which component is what. But I know there might be people who want to watch that. Every other part of their videos seems good quality except Chris Boden.

Doesn' the responsibility in the end belong to the viewer? it's impossible for a content creator to make something that appeals to all. It's perfectly doable for a viewer to only keep watching the things that appeal to herself.

Just my opinion (as the topic might suggest), noone is forcing anyone to watch anything. But if they go through all that trouble then why not do it properly. Their videos almost tick all the boxes...
If they have knowledgeable people there, why put the guy who isn't into doing the stuff.

[smackaay]

The thing I always find amusing about discussions of this nature, both on forums and YouTube comments, is it seems people are always being forced into watching videos they don't enjoy.

Even on my tiny YouTube channel I get regular comments about my videos being boring, so don't farking watch them.

The problem with that is that when you make videos and post them for public consumption, they will be critiqued by the public. If people want only useful comments or just nice comments, they can leave their videos private and show their mom, dad and friends. Posting a video to youtube comes with the understanding that the person who posted it wants the video to be seen by the public and as everyone knows, the result can be good or bad.

[Stonent]

I've seen one of their videos so far where they interface a CDV 700 geiger counter into an Arduino using interrupts which was actually the first video I ever saw with them being used on an Arduino. (Yes I knew they existed, but I had never seen the usage shown)

[EEVblog]

They have the guy who supposedly designed the thing and that cool schematic view/animations, he explains the circuit, but that part could have been separate video.

I really like the schematic animation driver. I do wonder how they do that?
I also like their video quality and some camera angles, really quite well done.

[pickle9000]

Steven Bellettini (I hope I got that right) is crazy good at animations. I'm sure he is the one to blame for all the animation stuff. He likes flash so I'm guessing that it's all flash.

He's kinda wierd

[dcel]

Steven Bellettini (I hope I got that right) is crazy good at animations. I'm sure he is the one to blame for all the animation stuff. He likes flash so I'm guessing that it's all flash.

He's kinda weird.

Aren't we all?

[vk3yedotcom]

I know this a bit of an old thread but I just got acquainted with GeekGroup videos. This Chris Boden guy seems somewhat knowledgeable about stuff but is also lazy and uninformed. I have seen him:

• Hammer the tip of a screwdriver with a hammer in between batteries
• Use a hammer on the head of another hammer!

 

In fact, using tools the wrong way is how new tools get invented

That kind of logic is fine if there is truly no other way to remove something. However in those examples he was trying to remove batteries from a UPS. He completely ignored the screws on the case and grunted and groaned for five minutes, potentially damaging his tools in the process. He was more like an ape trying to open a puzzle box with brute force than a man with skill gently coaxing it open.

I appreciate both sides. 

There is a certain beauty or elegance in finding the screws, using the right tool to open them and gaining access without damaging a thing.  Just a few twists in the right places and you're in - without the hammering, bashing and carry-on.   This is the professional approach and one to be followed by those who repair other peoples stuff or do electronics for money.

However there is also the lazy / less serious approach.  This is electronics how (I suspect) as often done in back sheds around the country though not as taught.

Eg pulling stuff apart on the floor not the bench (stuff can't fall any further)
Violating the 'hammers must not mix with screwdrivers' rule
Holding stuff down with your feet not in a vice (as you proceed to yank something out)
Using screwdrivers as levers to prise open recalcitrant plastic cases
Using teeth for things they ought not be used for
etc

I suspect that some think that there's all these vulnurable impressionable beginners out there and videos should always show the 'right' way all the time in case they get the wrong idea. 

Which is fair enough when dealing with beginners, mains power, and potentially dangerous things like power tools (that recent 'Make' video on that Halloween trick that hacked the mains power connections of an obsolete TV was plain dumb IMHO).

But when we're dealing with your own things, your own time, low voltages and salvaged consumer stuff that you don't care much if you break then I think we can afford to be a bit more like 'apes' and let go of the sophisticated thought for a while. Especially where electronics is a leisure activity that gives release from more serious stuff (like work).

I don't think there's harm in a few videos showing this less documented side of hobby electronics, provided the approach is explained.

[Halfdead]

I'm really glad Dave doesn't do videos like this
all they do is assemble the kit.
They have their place, but for most people it's neither educational nor funny. They have the guy who supposedly designed the thing and that cool schematic view/animations, he explains the circuit, but that part could have been separate video. I don't want to watch this guy trying figure how to bend leads on components or solder or which component is what. But I know there might be people who want to watch that. Every other part of their videos seems good quality except Chris Boden.

The video is supposed to teach people how to put the kit together.

[Dave]

I'm really glad Dave doesn't do videos like this
all they do is assemble the kit.

Give the guys some credit. It takes real determination to find a guy that can suck THAT bad at soldering. Not many people have what it takes to suck that bad.

[c4757p]

I'm a bit frightened by the amount of time he took explaining fitting a 100mil lead spacing capacitor into 200mil holes.

...holy mother of god that is some bad soldering. I mean, I see that he's more or less new to this, but damn, that kinda defeats the purpose of an instructional video, doesn't it?

Herp derp how do I cut leads without launching them?

"Plus sign 23 08" - I imagine that would be "Fairchild logo" 230B (as in 1N5230B) I have to give them dumbass credit for noticing the part number was wrong, but not investigating that at all before assembling...

Not sure if I can keep going...

...goddammit, it's a Schottky diode! A Shockley diode is something different!

Still trying to figure out the point of wasting all that "FLUX!!!"... the PCBs are brand new and the solder contains flux...

Sorry, I'm having fun nitpicking

(OK, the soldering got better at the end. )

[Bored@Work]

Ah, the goons are out again. Tell me, do you have some kind of telephone chain or telephone tree to alert each other when someone says something critical about the Geek group business?

By the way, when you want to teach someone soldering, it is a rather good idea to be able to solder. That guy in the video is smearing solder all over the pins, "soldering" like he is using a glue gun and just doesn't get it right. Tell me, is that guy in the video your fearless leader?

[stackel]

Gah, how do I internet? Sorry for the deletion folks.

I'm really glad Dave doesn't do videos like this
all they do is assemble the kit.
They have their place, but for most people it's neither educational nor funny. They have the guy who supposedly designed the thing and that cool schematic view/animations, he explains the circuit, but that part could have been separate video. I don't want to watch this guy trying figure how to bend leads on components or solder or which component is what. But I know there might be people who want to watch that. Every other part of their videos seems good quality except Chris Boden.

Member of the GG video team here. The "mean director" Chris mentioned a few pages back, actually.

You are aware that the particular video you link was for a purely instructional series, yes? I assume if you got to the third one, you watched the first where that was made clear. If not, please forgive the assumption. It was made with those who may have never touched anything of the sort before in mind. The point of the series was to show step by (possibly painful, for the more experienced such as yourself) step of how to assemble.

You may not like it, but I think you're overstepping yourself by deciding that it has no value for "most people". Is the presentation perfect? Probably not, but I think your bias against Chris and how he chooses to present is clouding your judgement of the video's value (and having worked with him for 2.5 years now, and knowing/experiencing what he has to do to be educational, accurate, and engaging, I invite you to teach him how it's done "properly". It'll amuse me.).

We're not perfect, and we often struggle to make things accessible and interesting while still keeping with how we do things. We don't cut down content or dumb down the lingo for those with short attention spans. That's not the point, for us. We do the we can best to show the ENTIRE process in most things, even the soul-crushingly boring parts. Because science doesn't always happen in 30 minutes with an awesome soundtrack, in spite of what channels like Discovery presents. And the fact that Chris can even be in a good mood by the end of our average length (easily 60+ minutes) shoots, let alone still engage the audience, is no small feat.

EDIT--If anyone has an interest in our production process, I'd be happy to answer.

[Dave]

You are aware that the particular video you link was for a purely instructional series, yes? I assume if you got to the third one, you watched the first where that was made clear. If not, please forgive the assumption. It was made with those who may have never touched anything of the sort before in mind. Something we did in lieu of printed instructions. The point of the series was to show step by (possibly painful, for the more experienced such as yourself) step of how to assemble a kit that we are producing for fundraising.

Teaching bad practice is worse than not teaching anything at all. I can already see beginners giving up on soldering because it's "too hard" and "nothing comes out right", because they try to put your terrible soldering practices to use.

You are deluding yourself if you think that the video you made was good.

[stackel]

You are aware that the particular video you link was for a purely instructional series, yes? I assume if you got to the third one, you watched the first where that was made clear. If not, please forgive the assumption. It was made with those who may have never touched anything of the sort before in mind. Something we did in lieu of printed instructions. The point of the series was to show step by (possibly painful, for the more experienced such as yourself) step of how to assemble a kit that we are producing for fundraising.

Teaching bad practice is worse than not teaching anything at all. I can already see beginners giving up on soldering because it's "too hard" and "nothing comes out right", because they try to put your terrible soldering practices to use.

You are deluding yourself if you think that the video you made was good.

The point wasn't to teach perfect soldering technique, and nowhere in this video series--there are three of them there so far and you're all only referencing the latest one where they don't cover the fact that that video was maybe Chris's second time soldering--does Chris claim to be good at it. It was to show how to build our kits for the polytonal musical tesla coil. Chris is not in this video as "the expert" on them. That honor, in fact, belongs to Paul Kidwell, who appears with him, and who developed the boards. Chris's entire role in the video, and in many of our videos in fact, is to be the student. He asks the questions, and sometimes does the stupid stuff. His function in this video was well served. It showed that even someone who knows nothing about the process of building these kits CAN actually do it without prior knowledge (even if their first tries may be "bad" in result).

Please watch the first video, if you have not, and see that Chris in fact admits on camera that he has never really soldered before. http://youtu.be/7q2mRUKPGZU

If you would like a video on proper soldering technique, we'd be glad to do it. What suggestions do you have for the important aspects we should cover (other than having a seasoned veteran teach it...that's sort of a given )?

[c4757p]

I kind of agree. I see the point of him learning as he goes just like the viewer. Not my cup of tea, but...

Since it is for beginners, though, a bit more attention to detail would be lovely. "Shockley diode"? Not bothering to double check part numbers thought wrong? Come on...

[stackel]

I kind of agree. I see the point of him learning as he goes just like the viewer. Not my cup of tea, but...

Since it is for beginners, though, a bit more attention to detail would be lovely. "Shockley diode"? Not bothering to double check part numbers thought wrong? Come on...

You are right on us needing to be more attentive to certain things if we're going to talk about them. It's something we've been working in the time since that video was shot (it was released months after shooting for a multitude of reasons that I won't bore you with here). We're working on our pre-production planning a lot more than we used partially due to things like that. It's an interesting learning curve, working here.

[Dave]

The point wasn't to teach perfect soldering technique, and nowhere in this video series--there are three of them there so far and you're all only referencing the latest one where they don't cover the fact that that video was maybe Chris's second time soldering--does Chris claim to be good at it. It was to show how to build our kits for the polytonal musical tesla coil. Chris is not in this video as "the expert" on them. That honor, in fact, belongs to Paul Kidwell, who appears with him, and who developed the boards. Chris's entire role in the video, and in many of our videos in fact, is to be the student. He asks the questions, and sometimes does the stupid stuff. His function in this video was well served. It showed that even someone who knows nothing about the process of building these kits CAN actually do it without prior knowledge (even if their first tries may be "bad" in result).

Please watch the first video, if you have not, and see that Chris in fact admits on camera that he has never really soldered before. http://youtu.be/7q2mRUKPGZU

If you would like a video on proper soldering technique, we'd be glad to do it. What suggestions do you have for the important aspects we should cover (other than having a seasoned veteran teach it...that's sort of a given )?

I have to admit I haven't watched the two previous videos.

As for the proper soldering tutorial, I like your idea and these are the important aspects I think you should cover:
-Explaining what soldering actually is (from a metallurgical point of view)
-Types of solder (for electronics use, of course)
-Flux (how and why we use it)
-Selecting the right iron and tip, temperature setting
-Brief explanation of the proper soldering technique and demonstration with annotations (if you use pauses in a shot, make sure to put a clearly visible pause symbol somewhere in the corner, not to give the impression of a ridiculously long heating time; perhaps use a timer there, so people see how many seconds it takes)
-Demonstration of soldering at actual speed
-Desoldering with pump and wick
-Explain the correct order in which the components should be soldered (so people don't start with soldering relays and then bitch when they have to mount small resistors next to them)

That should roughly cover it, though I probably forgot plenty of important stuff. Don't be afraid to make it extensive, if people will benefit from it.

[c4757p]

-Explain the correct order in which the components should be soldered (so people don't start with soldering relays and then bitch when they have to mount small resistors next to them)

I'm all for letting them figure this out for themselves

[vk6zgo]

I know this a bit of an old thread but I just got acquainted with GeekGroup videos. This Chris Boden guy seems somewhat knowledgeable about stuff but is also lazy and uninformed. I have seen him:

• Hammer the tip of a screwdriver with a hammer in between batteries
• Use a hammer on the head of another hammer!

 

It's his UPS/Hammar/Screwdriver  if he wants to smash things with a hammer why does it matter? 

Sometime it's faster to use the wrong tool, and infact - in those cases it's common to have a multiple tools so you can dedicate one for being used the wrong way. That way you can use it any way you need and also prevent anything important being ruined.

Side cutters are a good example. You have a really good pair and a cheap pair which you use when you're worried the expensive pair might get damaged because your cutting something a bit oversized.

In fact, using tools the wrong way is how new tools get invented

That kind of logic is fine if there is truly no other way to remove something. However in those examples he was trying to remove batteries from a UPS. He completely ignored the screws on the case and grunted and groaned for five minutes, potentially damaging his tools in the process. He was more like an ape trying to open a puzzle box with brute force than a man with skill gently coaxing it open.

Sure, who am I to say what kind of tools he uses? But I watched him and was screaming "Remove the screws!". I've watched other videos of his and most of them are OK. Perhaps I don't like him because he's so painfully unfunny, I don't know.

When I watched the video,I expected it to be crap,but considering he was dismantling something for parts,not repair,I couldn't see any great sins.

The "hammer" he hit with a hammer was actually the "hammer" end of a prybar.

The "screws on the case" were only mounting the handles,so he had to remove them in order to get at the rivets which really hold the thing together!

He put an "edit" in there which makes it confusing,but most people are aware that commercially made cases like that one are riveted together.
Screws are neither cost effective or sufficiently rigid.

I think he was trying to salvage the case originally,which is why he was persevering with attempting to prise the (swollen & distorted) batteries out .
After all,that was how they were supposed to come out.

Making noises?----You must not have had a lot to do with Techs out in the real world!
Most of my colleagues verbalise freely when working on equipment,as do I.

[Halfdead]

May I ask:
1) what rules you need to play by?

Entirely too many. Please keep in mind that it's not just me and a camera anymore, there's an entire production team involved. The days of shooting a video in the afternoon, editing in the evening, and posting overnight are long since gone from the main channel (though I do still do the blogs myself). I have to appease the Board, the video team (I have a director, and she is mean as hell and throws things at me, she also denies me food, help me, please), sponsors, etc. The videos on the main channel are in a state of growing pains right now as we bring our professionalism up significantly. You're about to see a lot of very different content from what you're used to on here. Some of it will take us back to our early days, some of it will be vastly superior to what we've done so far.

2) who is imposing those rules?

Me (I do get a vote around here), the Director, the staff, members, viewers, sponsors, foundations, the Development team, the PR team, the legal team and on occasion the dog.


3) why do you think you need to play by them?

Because I want to make a difference. I want to leave a legacy. I want to change the world. I'm not just doing YouTube videos for fun, this is a small (albeit very important) part of a much larger overarching enterprise. We operate the largest Makerspace in the world (and the oldest, open since 1994). I'm not just an idiot with a camera anymore, I'm an idiot at the tail of a multimillion dollar non-profit. This is why I don't get to have a blue mohawk, or swear, or carry a gun, or set dumpsters on fire, etc. I have to be professional. Some days I even wear a tie.


On the Comments thing, well, our commentators are likely very different from yours. We pass about 80% of them. The 20% or so we don't approve are ones that are derogatory (we have a lot of females around here, and some dudes are either very mean, or very creepy), or just plain stupid. Comments that are not positive or productive, we delete. I have no problems with people hating us or having a differing opinion, but that doesn't mean that they get to thrash on me on my dime. If they want to hate us, they can make their own videos on their own channel. It's a free internet. The ones that get the most cranky are the ones that rage on us for not teaching jesus, the ones that get pissed when we won't give them Moose or Liz's email/phone numbers/bra size, and the ones who want to tell us that our cameras/lighting/audio sucks. I assure you, we know it sucks, and we're working to do better. They want to bitch about it, but they don't want to donate to help get a new camera, or better lights, etc, they just want to bitch. Decisions are made by those that show up; I have little use for trools, and for those that only want to piss and moan. We're here to work, to make a substantial difference in the world. I support anyone who wants to help inspire people (It's why I like Dave ), but I have no use for whiners. That's why we moderate comments. If it costs me viewers, well if they're that shallow as to be offended, and they can't find one of the 20 other ways to interact and be heard by myself and the staff, then they aren't people I want as viewers anyways.

I understand how the main channel might need to be filtered. But what about your personal channel, why does everything need to be reviewed before being submitted?

[ChrisBoden]

Because hidden by the anonymity of the digital domain there are a nontrivial number of rancorous assholes who feel it is better to fling poo than it is to stand up and do something. The majority of our worst comments all have the same thing in common, they come from people who have never posted an original video.

It's easy to bitch, it's easy to sit back and point out the mistakes, the bad lighting, the microphone that didn't work right, the shoot that went to hell, etc ad astra. We do it too. We watch our videos and see what we did wrong, make notes, learn, and do better.

Standing up on that stage in front of the world, investing (and this is no exaggeration) Millions of dollars and a life's work into an idea, that's hard.

Some people bitch because we're not perfect, yet they can't do better themselves (we have a standing invitation to anyone who wants to show up and make a video).

Some people bitch because they're jealous (we have what many people would consider the best job in the Geek world).

Some people bitch because of their beliefs (we get a lot of hate from religious fundamentalists).

Some people bitch because they had a shot here and failed (our most fervent online haters are disgruntled former members who were kicked out for various reasons).

Some people bitch just for sport (there's a few here).

Let 'em bitch. It doesn't make a dent in our operation. And it's their right to be a twat. However, I have no reason whatsoever to give them a microphone to bitch from. If they want to leave vicious comments on the internet, that's fine, but I don't have to let them spread their hate on my comments thread. I have nothing, at all, to gain from it, and it doesn't make anyone's world a better place.

Fuck em. Haters gon' hate. I won't hide, and anyone who wants to come and say things to my face is welcome. My address is posted below.

Chris Boden
President, Founder
The Geek Group
902 Leonard NW.
Grand Rapids, MI
49504

[senso]

Milions of dollars?
Come on, I know from crappy shows that you (americans) like to exacerbate every price, like a new battery for a Bettle, thats gonna cost you 3000$ 

Just about the soldering, you either teach how to do it right, or you better be quiet..

[ChrisBoden]

Several million actually. Our IRS Form 990's are public record, as are our annual report. You can find them if you're slightly motivated.

Our IRC team alone has donated over $50,000 this year, so far. This month alone we'll be spending over $26,000 in electrical upgrades for the CNC shop, another $20,000 in Video Production equipment upgrades, and $15,000 in bills (electricity, mortgage, insurance, etc). I don't get to (or need to) exaggerate numbers, the world is watching and loves to point out any slight discrepancy I may make.

And the last thing we're going to do, is shut up.

[Bored@Work]

Why not invest some of that money in learning to solder?

[ChrisBoden]

I'll gladly pay you twenty bucks to come teach me on camera.

[c4757p]

I want to see that.

[senso]

I'll gladly pay you twenty bucks to come teach me on camera.

Throw in the price of a flight and I would do it..

[ChrisBoden]

I rest my case.

Everyone wants to bitch from the sidelines, nobody wants to actually do something to make a change.

Thank you for proving my point.

Cheers everyone.

[Phaedrus]

Offer $20 to do job worth much more that should be paid by % of ad revenue of that video...

When everyone refuses, claim victory.

This following several pages of arrogance.



I can tell I'm going to like your channel...

[Rasz]

The only "do something to make a change" that I see in your videos is "donate plox"

[c4757p]

Disclaimer - I haven't read all 11 pages. I'm kinda feeling the TL;DR today...

but... I don't really get what "do something to make a change" is even supposed to mean. It's not our channel.

[EEVblog]

Because hidden by the anonymity of the digital domain there are a nontrivial number of rancorous assholes who feel it is better to fling poo than it is to stand up and do something. The majority of our worst comments all have the same thing in common, they come from people who have never posted an original video.

Indeed.
But you don't have to approve comments in order to get rid of these people, you simply ban them. It's much less work than moderating comments. A small percentage of them will open another account and try again, but once you ban that one too, they get the hint. I still don't see any need to moderate youtube comments. You should be spending the time making content.

[EEVblog]

another $20,000 in Video Production equipment upgrades

That's at least 5 times more than I've spent on all my video production gear in the entire history of my blog, but I'm a tight arse 
What do you use now?, and what cool new toys are you getting?

[EEVblog]

Offer $20 to do job worth much more that should be paid by % of ad revenue of that video...

Given that the latest videos seem to get about 2000 views on average, I'd take the $20 bucks!
Seriously, video views on average don't pay much. I can assure you that The Geek Group are making very little of their money from the video ads themselves.

[Phaedrus]

Ah. Wasn't aware. Well, $20 is still pretty much a dickish offer, and one designed to be refused.


I had no idea who this joker was until I saw this thread, but based on his behavior in his thread, my first impression is that he is a Class A Douche.

Nice marketing!

[Bored@Work]

I rest my case.

Dude, you never had a case.

[Legit-Design]

You may not like it, but I think you're overstepping yourself by deciding that it has no value for "most people". Is the presentation perfect? Probably not, but I think your bias against Chris and how he chooses to present is clouding your judgement of the video's value (and having worked with him for 2.5 years now, and knowing/experiencing what he has to do to be educational, accurate, and engaging, I invite you to teach him how it's done "properly". It'll amuse me.).

We're not perfect, and we often struggle to make things accessible and interesting while still keeping with how we do things. We don't cut down content or dumb down the lingo for those with short attention spans. That's not the point, for us. We do the we can best to show the ENTIRE process in most things, even the soul-crushingly boring parts. Because science doesn't always happen in 30 minutes with an awesome soundtrack, in spite of what channels like Discovery presents. And the fact that Chris can even be in a good mood by the end of our average length (easily 60+ minutes) shoots, let alone still engage the audience, is no small feat.

EDIT--If anyone has an interest in our production process, I'd be happy to answer.

Again, just my opinion. Maybe it came out wrong and I judged the wrong video, but the geek group videos still have serious problems about being slow paced and BOOORING. I don't have too much against Chris, but usually when watching a video from him it seems like a complete waste of time to me. Don't watch videos you say? I thought geek group made these video so people would watch them.

Some videos have same problem that mjlorton had on his videos, he actually got alot of critique about not providing much of any content compared to length of videos. Mjlorton actually admitted some of his videos provide terrible content to length ratio. Some of his videos could still be cut 3/4 out(as some other people suggested). Mjlorton added disclaimer before his every video because he was getting so much complaints, maybe we could have same kind of disclaimer with videos which mostly have Chris and not much education.

However (Awesome vid in my opinion btw  ) videos like this, Chris actually has idea what he is talking about (this amazed me after some other of his presentations), he is providing good information, actually makes me want to make my own teslacoil. I'm not claiming every video could be like this. But in some videos we have Chris sitting there sitting silent (or making weird noises) trying to tinker, then he tries to say something and actually has no idea about anything, after that we get commercial asking for donations. In that commercial The geek group claims to be educational entity, and all that stuff, I'm sure they are. Why say you are educational entity, when the content and video are not actually conveying it. In youtube seconds feel like forever when there is nothing actually happening. Why not cut the silent no action parts out, or fast forward much much more? Maybe the editor wants to make Chris look like idiot and leaves the parts in where he looks like one. I suppose you have someone who edits this stuff?


Just watch videos from Dave, he is always fun to watch, he knows what he is talking about. I know for a fact Dave wouldn't dare wasting anyones time just sitting there and thinking what he should say next, and leaving that in when he uploads it. Nor would he be doing some trivial task and expecting people get "education" out of it. Dave will actually go back and shoot particular part again if he missed something, or it wasn't good.

Maybe you can have separate channel where Chris can make weird noises and hammer shit out looking like some idiot. I'm not claiming Chris is idiot.

[EEVblog]

Just watch videos from Dave, he is always fun to watch, he knows what he is talking about. I know for a fact Dave wouldn't dare wasting anyones time just sitting there and thinking what he should say next, and leaving that in when he uploads it.

Yet still I will get endless complaints about my videos being too long 
But yes, I think I've gotten better at this over the years. I now shoot shorter takes and more of them, so there should in theory be less rambling, and more info per minute. That makes it much easier to realise at the shooting stage that I took too long to explain that point, or left something out etc.
My videos will typically contain 50-100 separate clips, and some of the bigger videos like an hour long review might have almost 200 clips.
Being the on-screen "talent", the video operator, and the editor, I'm always thinking about the production of the video while I'm shooting it.
This works well for a lone one-man-band like me, but I'm not sure how applicable it would be to larger outfits like the geek group that presumably have a different camera person and video editor, and the pressure of people watching etc.
I for one would certainly not like to shoot my videos with other people watching.

Nor would he be doing some trivial task and expecting people get "education" out of it. Dave will actually go back and shoot particular part again if he missed something, or it wasn't good.

Most of my retakes are because I goofed the shot and nothing sensible came out of my mouth. The disadvantage of not really knowing what I'm going to say until I hit the record button.
There is unfortunately a lot of stuff I don't think is that great, but it's "good enough", so I simply leave it and carry on rather than trying to perfect an explanation. I rarely play back clips during shooting, so I have to remember what I said and make call after the shot that it was either "good enough" and move on, or deserves a retake. Mostly it's a gut instinct thing.

[ChrisBoden]

"That's at least 5 times more than I've spent on all my video production gear in the entire history of my blog, but I'm a tight arse 
What do you use now?, and what cool new toys are you getting?"

We currently shoot on old JVC-HD-100Us and a well beaten Sony NX5 with a slight case of epilepsy. Our lighting is simple home-depot flouresants on makeshift stands. Our entire live production setup (the two TV channels) is entirely donated gear, mostly 90's vintage and held together with clever hacks and a lot of duct tape.

If it's stupid and it works, it isn't stupid.

As far as the length to content ratio, there's a couple things to consider.

1. First off, when you look at our video catalog you're looking back across years of us learning HOW to make videos. The past 6 months is radically different from the first 6 months. We don't delete the old ones with no titles just because we learned how to make titles. Each video is a snapshot of our level of production, funding, and ability at that time. Some of them truly suck compared to what we can do today. But there they are, out there for the world to see, forever. Such is the nature of the internet. Yes, we could delete them...but to what end?

2. We don't make them to get hits.

Let me reiterate that.

We do not, have not, and never shall produce content driven by viewer count.

If I wanted a million hits, that's easy, with the toys at our disposal I could spend all day blowing shit up with high voltage and get million-hit videos every week. That's easy, hits are easy.

We do not work to a clock. I have never set out to make a half hour, or hour long, or 4 hour (yeah, we did that) video. Hell I don't want to spend the time EDITING a 4 hour video, much less rendering it. If you think it sucks to watch, remember that by the time you see it, I've seen it half a dozen times (in some cases, well over 50 on some of our videos). It's nothing for one of our production videos to take a month and a half to go through post production, that's normal now. Back in the early days it was shot at noon and public by dinnertime, we've come a long way.

We make the long videos that we do, because some things simple require them. Yes, I could do the whiz-bang OHHH SHINY LOOK AT THIS jump-cut crap that appears on TLC and Discovery and wrap everything in 3 minutes.

But you can't actually TEACH people certain things in 3 minutes. Some things take time to break down. We take the time. Because yes, 99% of the world doesn't give a shit, that's totally fine. They can turn on TLC and watch Honey Boo Boo. The 1% that DOES want to know everything about whatever the hell I'm exploring, taking apart, demonstrating...become rabid fans.

Because we took the time.

Yes, we make some purely entertainment videos, with pretty much zero educational content. There are days when we do actually blow things up just because we can. And that's fine. I don't profess to be a professor every waking moment I'm on camera and, well, High Voltage is fun.

I don't expect most people to like our videos. I don't ask them to.

I don't expect anyone to like ALL of our videos, hell, I don't even like all of our videos. And the people that DO, well they kind of creep me the hell out.

What what you like, choose us, choose Dave, choose both, it's a great system.

But hits, don't matter. Actually reaching people actually communicating a meaningful idea, inspiring people to build their own things, to explore science and engineering, that's what matters.

And as far as the money from the ad revenue? LMFAO. Every single cent of YouTube money that comes in the door gets divided among the video staff. Neither I, nor the Group at a corporate level see a penny of that. Last month it was just a tad over two hundred bucks.

Livin the dream on that kind of cash, I tell ya.

And if you want to think I'm a douche, knock yourself out. Opinions vary on my level of discktitude among all audiences. Dave understands I have no doubt. Truth is I'm just a typical guy. I'm not a god, I'm not a politician out to kiss everyone's ass. I don't need you all to love me, and I certainly don't abide being worshipped by anyone. I'm not here to make friends with the EEVblog world. I'm here to tell the truth to a herd of people who had an axe to grind. Most of you seem like decent guys, a couple of your are low-rent trolls who are no different that my low-rent trolls.

Dave and I have two very different paths to the same end goal. We want to make our own little dent in the world and maybe inspire a few people.

And in the end, that's all that matters.

I wish you all well, except the trolls....you guys are xxxxx.

Keep yer head up Dave.

Have fun.

CB

[ChrisBoden]

Btw, here's what we did yesterday. This is the new power supply gear for the High Voltage Lab.



You're all welcome to come and play.

[ChrisBoden]

[ChrisBoden]

These just went public 5 minutes ago...

[Halfdead]

Really like this video, wish there were part numbers and a proper schematic to go with it though.

[milktoast]

I've been advised to make a new thread, since this one is pretty effectively dead.

[Smokey]

just because it hasn't seen a post in a while doesn't mean it's dead.  It's back up at the top of the page now isn't it?

[Rasz]

mmm Boden, classy as always



not contributing = not making enough direct $$ donations

he still treats TGG as his personal cult

[Tallie]

Did Mr. Boden ever verify or refute the claim(s) about him brandishing his pistol?

[DrDeke]

Did Mr. Boden ever verify or refute the claim(s) about him brandishing his pistol?

I don't know, but apparently the IRS and Department of Homeland Security have raided the Geek Group* today and executed a federal search warrant in connection with a criminal investigation. It kind of makes you wonder just what's going on over there.

* Apparently they now call themselves The National Science Institute; I don't know when they changed that.

[coppercone2]

its in flint Michigan they probably think its a crack factory

they are also obsessed with dinosaurs. is this a Michigan thing?

[luma]

its in flint Michigan they probably think its a crack factory

they are also obsessed with dinosaurs. is this a Michigan thing?

They’re nowhere near Flint - Michigan is a pretty big place. 

In other news, they just announced that they are now closing down for good.

[coppercone2]

rofl homeland security too.


is it like the movie 'the substitute'?

[Mr. Scram]

[vk3yedotcom]

Statement on the closure at https://www.facebook.com/TheNatSci/posts/10156622931918001?__tn__=K-R

[Psi]

yeah.
Very sad news.

[beanflying]

A shame as there was some very good content and ideas produced by a group of people with a passion over a long time.

Also some cringe worthy content courtesy of Mr Bowden interjecting and talking over the top of others on video from time to time instead of shutting up and listening while they spoke about their area of expertise. Not saying this happened all the time but it was obvious who expected to be in charge and rule the roost in a 'collective' of nerds.

[coppercone2]

I still want to know how funding problems involve the DHS.

Were they selling hardware to Iran?

[Psi]

He's got a lot of organised haters.
TGG probably just got swat'ed, but in a more sophisticated campaign sort of way.
There's only so long govt agencies can ignore people reporting things before they have to look into it.
A well put together campaign could easily use verifiable half-truths to cause enough FUD to trigger an investigation.

In any case, the truth will come out once they can talk about it.

[beanflying]

One sides truth generally isn't it is what they believe or want others to believe. 'The Truth' will be told in court I suspect and not before.

A very quick look at this a few days ago revealed some firearms and other issues in the past (ignoring the obvious haters) and given some of the content of things going snap crackle and pop in the videos going in DHS heavy with the IRS in tow would seem sensible. I suspect the boring bit will be some naughty accounting, money shuffling and or tax issues.

[coppercone2]

he is doing illegal trading or something

https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/nonprofit-organization-raided-for-unauthorized-trading-of-bitcoins-in-michigan/

[sleemanj]

https://youtu.be/BEOKJo9lumM?t=3465

[TheNewLab]

anyone in Grand Rapids area ready to drive up with a huge rental truck, and just sweep through and grab the best.
Doesn't matter if the guy is a creep, or over-the-top arrogant.

All good things must come to and end...and not-so-good included.

One observation:
for all his huffing on the Web archive, WordPress site of his...for being the one that handle any mess. He sure is making an overblown deal about this FED raid and all.

It seems to me that they just ran their not-for-profit poorly and violated IRS codes in how they created what revenue that they did.
FED jail time. Not likely.. Just liquidation, and likely personal bankruptcy

He's young and hopefully learned a bi lesson, (or lessons?)

SO HEY, anyone interested in grabbing a Hon brand, 4-drawer legal.size file cabinet, for nothing, and willing to pack and send it the the SF-Bay Area. I am interested. of course will pay shipping. maybe stuff a few quad copters in the file drawers, of some clever thing.

[EEVblog]

A very quick look at this a few days ago revealed some firearms and other issues in the past (ignoring the obvious haters) and given some of the content of things going snap crackle and pop in the videos going in DHS heavy with the IRS in tow would seem sensible. I suspect the boring bit will be some naughty accounting, money shuffling and or tax issues.

It's to do with his trading in crypto somehow, nothing to do with The Geek Group it seems.
He thinks he's going to federal prison for it.

[beanflying]

And yet the apparent Not for Profit entity is closed and going up for sale at the same time as well. If they were unconnected then he could have walked as a Director and the entity could have kept going under new management. I smelll more  yet to be revealed.

[Psi]

And yet the apparent Not for Profit entity is closed and going up for sale at the same time as well. If they were unconnected then he could have walked as a Director and the entity could have kept going under new management. I smelll more  yet to be revealed.

The raid did a massive PR hit to the company. They have been running unprofitable for years and only just staying afloat financially.
When their PR tanked and income from members dropped there was likely nothing that could be done.

The capital value of the building has probably gone up a lot since they bought it.
If ya can't pay the mortgage payments the bank will foreclose on you and you lose big time.

If you can't pay the bills there's really no option but to sell the building and all company assets and settle any debt,
Then you can close the business. Otherwise you run out of money and it is all taken off you by the bank and debt collectors.

[EEVblog]

What the heck is "unauthorised bitcoin trading" anyway? 

[Psi]

As i understand it, in the USA if you sell bitcoin publicly then you are a bank or financial institute and must be registered and have all the required government certification.

There are a lot of Chris Boden haters around, entire groups on reddit and other places. All out to get him.
It's very likely they reported him to the FBI/IRS/DHS for selling bitcoin and doing god knows what else.
(Chris has said there were haters saying he had a "secret rape room" and stupid shit like that. Which i don't believe for a second.)
It's no wonder so many government agencies showed up in the raid.
The company has been swat'ed many times in the past.
And once again since the raid.

It's somewhat suspicious that Greek Group/Chris Boden threads on eevblog usually devolve into negative discussions for no obvious reasons.

[beanflying]

Until it gets near a court clearly the full details won't be known even on the Bitcoin trading for $.

With the IRS being in on the raid and as they don't administer Banking directly in the USA there will be more to come. At a guess I would think naughty behaviour of the Not for Profit and where the money came and went is the reason they were there too or certainly to have a good look of the books.

[EEVblog]

https://www.chepicap.com/en/news/6409/fbi-raids-non-profit-tech-organization-in-michigan-for-unauthorized-crypto-trading.html

Michigan-based non-profit organization was seized by the FBI for performing unauthorized crypt trading.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) raids the office of a non-profit tech organization in Michigan for commercially trading cryptocurrency without proper authorization.

The president of the National Science Institute, or formerly known as The Geek Group, Chris Boden opened up about the matter as well as the legal problems he’s going to face on YouTube.

“I did a stupid thing, I made a bad decision, so I’m going to pay for it,” he said as quoted by WoodTV.

The man believes that he’s looking at federal prison and that he will likely to spend more than $100,000 in legal expenses, although the FBI officials refused to comment on the charges Boden is facing.

And despite the explicit language he used, Boden took the blame and stated that he’s fully responsible for everything that happened.

Moreover, he also mentioned his plan to sell all the businesses’ assets, probably to fund the incurring legal cost. 

To recap, the FBI seized the computers, hard drives and other equipment from the National Science Institute office in Grand Rapids, Michigan just 10 days before the year ended.

The seizure was conducted in cooperation with the Homeland Security, following an investigation that reveals Boden’s unauthorized crypto trading on the office that’s supposedly used as a workspace that acts as incubator for local startups and provides low-cost computers for the public.

[EEVblog]

https://news.bitstarz.com/nsi-shuts-its-doors-after-ceo-caught-illegally-trading-crypto

The US National Science Institute (NSI) has had to shut its doors after federal authorities raided its offices in December. The NSI had been offering to trade cryptocurrencies without the correct registration and Chris Boden – NSI Founder and CEO – took full responsibility for his actions. Boden is likely looking at a huge fine and multiple years behind bars for the company’s crypto trading activity.

An Emotional Farewell
Chris Boden founded the NSI back in 1994 under the name Geek Group in a bid to offer educational activities relating to the latest technological developments. Unfortunately for Boden and the team, NSI is being forced to sell off everything it has – meaning projects, technological artifacts, and equipment is all up for sale. Boden posted the heartbreaking news on Facebook, stating that what’s not sold by 31st January will head to the dump.

US Regulators Clamping Down on Illegal Trading
In America, offering the ability to trade cryptocurrencies is a dangerous game unless you’re regulated. The NSI was far from regulated or licensed. It appears to have been a goodwill service that was entered into unknowingly. NSI didn’t do this on purpose and Boden – along with his team – are completely shattered by the move from the FBI. Even so, the FBI and US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has been cracking down on illegal crypto traders recently.

Other Firms Waiting for Approval
There are a number of firms out there with products ready to launch, but are holding off until they acquire the correct licensing from the SEC to avoid issues like NSI is facing. Prometheum is waiting for the SEC to give it the green light before it launches its security tokens to the public. Had NSI followed suit and gotten SEC approval for crypto trading, it wouldn’t have to shut down.

Pick Up Some Tech Goodies on the Cheap
Due to the fact that NSI is effectively in liquidation to pay off its huge debt, it’s selling off its equipment and stocked products on the cheap. This poses a great opportunity for tech enthusiasts to get their hands on state-of-the-art equipment at a massive discount. However, it’s unlikely that NSI will be accepting any form of crypto payments for these products given the amount of trouble that has already landed them in.
While it’s sad to see an institution like NSI vanish after so many years, it’s a lesson to other firms out there operating without the correct licenses – you will be caught. It wouldn’t be surprising if the SEC receives a number of applications for permits and licensing in the wake of this scandal

[Psi]

My opinion is that the IRS was there just because the haters had reported him, or the company, for tax evasion or something.
Yeah, nothing we can really do but wait and see what happens.
But i'm 100% for considering everyone innocent until proven guilty.

[EEVblog]

But i'm 100% for considering everyone innocent until proven guilty.

In this case it seems he's admitted trading crypto without a license and he expects jail time for it.
No idea of actual charges yet though?

[EEVblog]

Chris has a Patreon, and sounds like he changed the description after all this went down. Decent number of Patrons
https://www.patreon.com/ChrisBoden

[Psi]

It was never a secret that he was selling bitcoin, it has been advertised publicly for years.
The question for the courts is how seriously did he break any laws.

Lots of people sell bitcoin and lots of them are likely doing so illegally to.

There's a difference of intent between someone who sells bitcoin in a dark alleyway to known shady people verses
someone who didn't realize the legality of it and sold it publicly but kept records of who bought/sold what.

[EEVblog]

It was never a secret that he was selling bitcoin, it has been advertised publicly for years.

Why would anyone "buy Bicoin" from him personally instead of any other exchange?

[Psi]

Dunno, probably because it was easier.

[Rasz]

It was never a secret that he was selling bitcoin, it has been advertised publicly for years.

Why would anyone "buy Bicoin" from him personally instead of any other exchange?

its easier to launder money in person?

[sleemanj]

One would posit because KYC/AML meant other exchanges would not take some of those people's money.

[beanflying]

While this is only speculation it is just possible he was playing with not just 'his' own money. IRS involvement - Not for profit - bit coin trading and an Entity on shakey financial ground for an extended period of time.

Random Australian info could likely be why DHS was involved in the raid assuming similar rules are also in the USA https://anz.businesschief.com/finance/2134/Australia-among-first-to-introduce-bitcoin-regulations

[EEVblog]

While this is only speculation it is just possible he was playing with not just 'his' own money. IRS involvement - Not for profit - bit coin trading and an Entity on shakey financial ground for an extended period of time.
Random Australian info could likely be why DHS was involved in the raid assuming similar rules are also in the USA https://anz.businesschief.com/finance/2134/Australia-among-first-to-introduce-bitcoin-regulations

They probably just added it to AUSTRAC requirements and the "know your customer" BS companies have to jump through.
try signing up to any crypto exchange in Australia and they want a photo of you holding up your ID and a page with your signature on it.
For example, I get the third degree from my currency conversion house every time I exchange and transfer large sums of money overseas for stock. It's a real PITA.
And if you buy precious metals at any bullion or coin dealer they have to report you for any transaction over $5k, even if you walk in with cash. Or if there are regular transactions under the $5k limit they are supposed to also flag you as well.

[EEVblog]

While this is only speculation it is just possible he was playing with not just 'his' own money. IRS involvement - Not for profit - bit coin trading and an Entity on shakey financial ground for an extended period of time.

Given that the media reports that he admits he did wrong and seems resigned to the fact he's facing prion time, it does seem like it was beyond "hey, I was just helping a few friends out, I didn't know about all these regulations, sorry I didn't didn't do it deliberately!" etc.

[Psi]

While this is only speculation it is just possible he was playing with not just 'his' own money. IRS involvement - Not for profit - bit coin trading and an Entity on shakey financial ground for an extended period of time.

Given that the media reports that he admits he did wrong and seems resigned to the fact he's facing prion time, it does seem like it was beyond "hey, I was just helping a few friends out, I didn't know about all these regulations, sorry I didn't didn't do it deliberately!" etc.

The video where he thinks he will go to prison was made only a week or two after the raid.
Seems a bit soon to have much of an idea what will happen.
I have no idea what developments have been made in the 2 months since then.

[echap]

I live local, and have donated items to them in the past.  I have met Chris in person, and he is a pretty nice guy.  He showed me around the facility and demonstrated the large Tesla coil there last fall.  Was pretty impressive actually.  It's to bad what happened, I think he has a really cool idea, and there is tons of very cool stuff there that has been donated.  I know he mentioned to me that they had a hard time paying the bills and was having a fund raising sale there then, and sell some donated items.

[justinWhite]

I have met Chris several times and I think he is a great guy.  The Geek Group AKA The National Science Institute was a great educational resource in the community.  One of the many things being taught there was a crypto-currency course - primarily bitcoin.  They would buy and sell bitcoin with anyone who walked in the door.  I do not believe they ever said no, that you have to wait until its worth more or less, so it was not for profit.  They were trying to be a resource for people learning about bitcoin and virtually everything else.  I believe that they were breaking the law in trading too much without some sort of license, but I personally don't believe there was any intent to do anything immoral or illegal.  Other things going on there: 3d printing, high power lab, video production, computer hardware and software, electronics, quad-copters, auto-mechanics, CAD, robotics, and more...  I wish I lived closer so I could have learned more there.

[luma]

This took a while but...

Geek Group leaders charged with illegal Bitcoin trade, money laundering.

This looks pretty bad for Chris.

The court documents also claim Boden tried to hire an undercover police officer to extort a client to collect a debt.

I live nearby and had several interactions with TGG and Chris.  I don't want to get too into it, but let's just say that Chris really liked to be the smartest person in the room and situated himself such that that was always the case.  If you weren't there to bow to his greatness, you weren't going to be made welcome.

edit: charges detailed here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59692375/united-states-v-boden/

[coppercone2]

im waiting for the crime family associations at this point with these guys'

it looks like everyone in the youtube channel is involved lol

reminds me of Enron a little bit (all the structuring charges). the guy was suspicious, I remember in 2013 watching it, he was like 'oh we don't need or want money for big semiconductor/technology people'... yea.. because they wont comply with shady shit.. they could have gotten a semiconductor prototype plant going with that kind of help. There could have been a prototype fab there instead of a freaking can crusher but I guess you can't pocket the money easily when corporate accounting is involved. Maybe he was trying to bring on the steam age.

The highlights of the activity were 'how to make gas pipe threads', circumvention of security systems and crushing beer cans. I recall him saying he walked away from multi million dollar corporate infusions. I thought either that this guys lying or that he is mad dirty. green and red glasses man telling me he walked away from 5 million bucks because he can do it better when he has a can crusher in a abandoned factory..

[Rasz]

bitcoin, drugs, money laundering, and according to comments from volunteers human trafficking

https://old.reddit.com/r/grandrapids/comments/lvqr6k/geek_group_leaders_charged_with_illegal_bitcoin/

[coppercone2]

they need to disclose what that is because its a strong federal vs state issue but I find the extortion most unnerving, that is seriously bad shit, it would be better if he beat the guy up personally because crooked cops are really bad news, it undermines so many things that we rely on for proper behavior in society. once the cops are crooked you get zero trust and high levels of paranoia

[EEVblog]

bitcoin, drugs, money laundering, and according to comments from volunteers human trafficking
https://old.reddit.com/r/grandrapids/comments/lvqr6k/geek_group_leaders_charged_with_illegal_bitcoin/

Then why is he (AFAIK) only charged with ilegal bitcoin stuff?

[beanflying]

bitcoin, drugs, money laundering, and according to comments from volunteers human trafficking
https://old.reddit.com/r/grandrapids/comments/lvqr6k/geek_group_leaders_charged_with_illegal_bitcoin/

Then why is he (AFAIK) only charged with ilegal bitcoin stuff?

Because Prosecutors and Investigators don't believe everything they read on Reddit

[coppercone2]

the extortion is in the indictment, count 28
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.miwd.100639/gov.uscourts.miwd.100639.1.0.pdf

in a nutshell it looks like getting a undercover to get money from someone. there is no detail if its a accident or cop friend 

[TMM]

From the start, this seemed like a front to some shady business with a sociopath at the helm. Not surprising to find out that was indeed the case.

[luma]

Sentencing happened on Friday, Boden has been sentenced to 30 months and 3 years of parole.  News article is here and sentencing docs are here.

[luma]

Also, if there was any question as to his culpability... read an example log of conversations with undercover agents.  He believed himself to be laundering money for a cocaine dealer who was very explicit about where the proceeds came from.

The charges were all related to money laundering and adjacent crimes (structuring, etc), but the context of what Chris thought he was doing wasn't just buying and selling bitcoin, he believed himself to be offering financial services to drug dealers.

[Smokey]

That transcript is super funny. 
I like how he keeps trying to explain how bitcoin works to that undercover agent that he thought was a drug dealer.  That's a true educator right there! 

[vk3yedotcom]

Boden's Facebook page has a long apology and self-justification. https://www.facebook.com/CaptainBoden

His twitter describes his life as an 'emotional fondue' https://twitter.com/physicsduck/with_replies

His last YouTube video was only 8 days ago.

[TMM]

dudes a narcissist. That lengthy FB spiel just read as him justifying the wrong that he did with all the right (in his eyes) that he did.

[SeanB]

Darn, 2 and a half years before we get the next video from him......

[luma]

Fun follow-up: I've been talking to a local group that is trying to get another makerspace off of the ground in Grand Rapids where The Geek Group was operating.  Almost every single corporate sponsor that they have contacted has mentioned their experience with Boden as a reason they will never touch another maker space again.  Their bank has said something similar, they will not fund the project unless they can put together a cash-positive business plan that does not rely on grants, because the bank also knows that nobody is going to fund the project due to what happened with Boden.

Chris Boden has not only destroyed a functioning maker space, he has single-handedly made the entire CONCEPT of a maker space impossible to start again in this area code.  I know a lot of people here like his silly videos, but his greed has made life for every hacker in the area measurably worse.  Supporting him in any way does damage to the larger maker community and we have concrete evidence of exactly this thing happening.

[EEVblog]

I missed the Twitter post thing, here is a copy:

First off, thank you for caring and for being patient. If you’re reading this then you’re most likely in one of two groups of people. Most likely you’re one of my real friends who has stuck with me through the hardest time of my life, so thank you. Alternatively you hate me so much that even now, years later, I’m still living rent-free in your head. If that’s the case, you’re more screwed up than I am, and I consider that a win.
A lot of people have been asking me for details related to how to contact, communicate, help, or support me through my tenure in Federal Prison. I finally have the majority of the info, and the details on how to use it. So, here is your reference document on what you need to know. I’ve gotten a ton of questions through this process; this should give you the answers. If not, comment below and I’ll try to help.
The first and most important thing to understand is that as one of my friends, you’re probably an asshole. That’s ok, we understand each other. We’re all horrible people in the most fabulous of ways, but the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) absolutely does not share our sense of humor.
While you may think it’s hilarious to send me a hacksaw in a birthday cake, giant dildos, and soap on a rope, they will not find it funny. These are people who are rather passionate about rules. If you try to send me something “funny,” I will certainly never see it. You, however, can get into a ton of trouble for doing something stupid like that. They will be perfectly happy to prosecute your dumb ass and see to it that you get a cell of your own. So please, don’t send me anything but simple letters and the occasional picture of your good puppy or cool project. We’ll have a laugh when I get out. For now, no comedy please. I don’t want any more of my friends to suffer for this.
Now, simple letters and such are totally fine. To send me a letter, you’ll need to know a few things. The first of which is the actual rules (and yes, there’s a lot of them) for sending mail to a federal prisoner. Start by reading this: [url]https://www.bop.gov/inmates/communications.jsp#mail[/url]
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE READ THAT BEFORE YOU SEND ME ANYTHING!
These people are accustomed to dealing with dangerous, stupid, and often no-good-very-bad people. I can not be responsible for what happens to you if you try to be cute or creative.
The second thing you’ll need is my Federal Register Number. In the dystopian future where we all get barcodes tattooed on the back of our necks, this is that number. My personal one is 33550-509. You’ll need this to send me mail or have pretty much any interaction with me in prison.
My official mailing address is as follows.
Christopher Allan Boden 33550-509
FCI Oxford
Federal Correction Institution
Satellite Camp
PO Box 1085
Oxford, WI 53952
You have to format it EXACTLY like that. These guys are quite fussy about rules and regulations.
My life as Prisoner 33550-509 officially begins on April 12, 2022. My sentence is 30 months. That’s a little over twenty-thousand hours, or a little under a thousand nights. Round numbers, it’s about 3% of my life.
By the book, that puts my Out Date as October 12, 2024. But Prison doesn’t work that way.
That is, in fact, pretty much the one day you can absolutely guarantee I won’t be getting out. If I’m a model prisoner I may get out early. If I’m not, I could be in there for decades. There’s no way to know, and no way to control it. The BOP is going to do what the BOP wants to do. Everything is fungible and arbitrary, and that’s just how it works.
For the many people who have been curious about what life is like in Prison. Here’s a taste of it. This is the official handbook for going to Oxford. Each prison is a little different, but this will give you an idea of what I can expect.
[url]https://www.bop.gov/.../institutions/oxf/OXF_aohandbook.pdf[/url]
For extra superfun happytime reading, here’s the PREA Report.
[url]https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/oxf/prea_oxf.pdf[/url]
Now, in the handbook you’ll note that I only get a miniscule place to keep all of my worldly possessions. So please, *don’t send me anything but simple letters*. I have a serious list of books and periodicals setup already, but I’m only allowed a few books at a time and only direct from the publisher. So please, if you want to get me something to read, comment here, and I’ll see that it gets on the list, but DO NOT just mail it to me. If you do, I likely won’t get to read it. I have a wishlist setup for reading material. If you’d like to contribute to it, you can comment with suggestions and donate on my Patreon.
*PLEASE DO NOT PUT MONEY ON MY COMMISSARY/BOOKS!*
I appreciate you, I really do. But don’t just put money on my books or the Feds will just vacuum it off. I’m paying off $75,000 in fines and I don’t want any of my supporters to have to pay that.
I have a VERY tight limit on what I can spend each month on Commissary and Communication. Anything above that and they can take that money against what I owe in fines. I sincerely appreciate your support, and it means the world to me that you care enough to want to do that. But I don’t want to see your support just get sucked up by The Man towards my fines. Second to that, DO NOT send me cash or money in any form in the mail. It will be confiscated and we both might get in trouble. If you want to help support my commissary fund you can support me on Patreon or send money to my paypal (PM me for details).
For the record, ALL THE PROCEEDS from the sales of ALL of my books (and I just released my fourth!) are going towards paying off my fines. If enough people like my books and I sell enough copies, it’s entirely possible that my fines will be totally paid off before I get released! It’s not likely, but it’s possible. So if you do want to help me on my fines, give a few of my books out as birthday presents. 😉 It helps, and we both win!
If you want to communicate with me through this, the best thing you can do is to send simple letters, send me 2-3 pictures of the projects you’re working on, etc. I can GET mail from just about anyone. However, I’m highly limited on who I can SEND mail to. Depending on which document you read from the BOP my contact list is limited to 20, 30, or 100 people. I have no idea which is accurate, but we’ll find out soon. If you’d like a chance to be on my Approved Contacts list, please send me a private message on here that includes your full name, email address, phone number, and mailing address. I’ll try to put you on the list.
If you get on my approved contacts list, you’re going to get to learn the wonderful world of Corrlinks. It’s every bit as reliable, state of the art, easy to use, and common sense as everything else related to our most wonderful prison system.
Corrlinks is how email works from Federal Prison. If you remember the days of Hotmail, it's kinda like that. Think of it like Gmail with a side of Big Brother. There’s apps for Android and Apple, and if you want to email me you’ll certainly want to get the app. The reason is, the app will alert you when you have an email from me. Otherwise you have to manually go and check on the website to see if you have email.
The BIG THING TO NOTE is that if you’re on my contacts list, you’ll get an email from the system at some point saying, “This weirdo in prison wants to talk to you, should we let him or should we tell him to piss off?”. They only send one email to check, and it can easily end up in your spam, or you can easily delete it thinking it’s just junkmail. If you do that, it totally severs all communication from me and it’s almost impossible to get a second chance. So, pay attention to what you click in that email!
There is a similar system for phone calls. If I get to call you, you get to choose. If you click the button that says to bugger off and delete me, it’s pretty much impossible for me to try again. So, be careful what you click.
I intend to spend my time writing as much as possible. I’ve got stories to tell and science to teach. My plan is to walk out of there with a book or two completed, in better physical shape, and immediately get started on building my new life and shop. I have hundreds, honestly hundreds of projects that have been waiting in storage for the past several years. Once I’m done with this giant nightmare, I can get back to work on that which actually matters.
And THAT is where you can truly help. I want to Educate, Inspire, and Entertain. I want to build a shop big enough to do some epic projects, and small enough to be manageable and profitable. I want to build a small, motivated team of about half-a-dozen people who want to help me build cool projects, and make epic videos teaching people about science and engineering.
Nothing non-profit, not even a for-serious business. Just me in a solid workshop having fun with high voltage, boats, electric vehicles, robots, lasers, and deeply inappropriate, irreverent humor.
If you support that idea, if you want to help build my future, if you want to be a part of this, then go here and get involved.
[url]https://subs.captainboden.com/[/url]
[url]https://ko-fi.com/captainboden[/url]
Because I have two years to save up to start building a real shop, and tools are expensive. There will also be video updates sent to supporters throughout my stay.
Got ideas for the new shop? Wanna help research and design it? Go get in my Discord chat here.
[url]https://discord.gg/TUdWr8J52p[/url]
I’m always interested in new ideas and there’s a ton of people there that are all about learning new stuff and working with me to accomplish some pretty amazing things together.
If you have questions about sending things, rules, policies or anything else, you can PM me until the morning of April 10th. After that, it is best to ask by going to discord and asking a mod or sending me an email (if you don’t have my email, PM me). Both of these platforms will be monitored periodically while I am gone.
Please do not try texting my phone or contacting me on Facebook Messenger, both of those will be completely shut down while I’m away.
Thank you, just for being you, for standing by me through all of this, for reading all the dopey things I write on here. You’re what makes this all worthwhile, and I appreciate you more than you’ll ever imagine.
See ya on the other side 🙂
Christopher Allan Boden, 33550-509

[Black Phoenix]

Jesus reading this thread is like watching a Train wreck happening in slow motion...

OFFTOPIC - I was too young for this thread, when it stated.

In 2013 I was a frequent member of the old FlukeCommunity.com, the old official Fluke bulletin board.

My knowledge at that time from "The Geek Group" was nill and Dave's EEVBlog was because of the 87V GSM problem.

And to show I'm not lying here's the topic I replied, thanks to the Wayback Machine, in 2010 - https://web.archive.org/web/20101225145229/http://www.flukecommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3348

See reply #6, that's me from 12 years ago.

Although I though when I saw a video of a guy from the "land down under" dressed with a white coat and a tinfoil hat to be strange for me at the time, this thread show that Dave didn't change anything since then to now, for the good.

The reality is that the time were both TGG and EEVBlog were being shown here it was a time were YouTube was still under the golden times, way before the 2017 Adpocalypse - https://youtube.fandom.com/wiki/YouTube_Adpocalypse.

A time were most of the channels we now take for granted were in their infancy and trying to find their place.

Some fail, some did had success. TGG had issues but one of the main ones would be the personality of the owner itself, that is patented here.

[EEVblog]

Although I though when I saw a video of a guy from the "land down under" dressed with a white coat and a tinfoil hat to be strange for me at the time, this thread show that Dave didn't change anything since then to now, for the good.

Yeah, I'm boring, I don't change much. The hair got grey and the eyesight got worse, but that's about it.

[Black Phoenix]

Boring no. Like a good bottle of wine (my birth country is know by that) you just got a more refined taste...

[Smokey]

Darn, 2 and a half years before we get the next video from him......

Wait is over https://www.youtube.com/@Physicsduck/videos

[SeanB]

Darn, 2 and a half years before we get the next video from him......

Wait is over https://www.youtube.com/@Physicsduck/videos

Watched it already, and he is back out in RL again.

[EEVblog]

Darn, 2 and a half years before we get the next video from him......

Wait is over https://www.youtube.com/@Physicsduck/videos

There have been videos 4 weeks ago and also several from 1 year ago?