Oppenheimer Movie Review

[HighVoltage]

When I was in 10th grade in Germany, we had to read Robert Jungk' Book from 1956,

"Heller als Tausend Sonnen"
"Brighter than a 1000 Suns"

This book got me started looking into the field of nuclear physics and got me hooked.
Probably still a good book to read.

I just booked tickets for the 50mm version of the Oppenheimer movie for next week.

[MadTux]

The fact alone, that this Nolan guy puts digital nixie clocks back into 1945 makes it unwatchable for me.
https://youtu.be/9O2GXfiiNw4?t=69

Nolan, basically Michael Bay of science fiction/historical movies, big boom but no substance.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I saw the movie last night.

I generally don't care for movies with multiple, disjoint timelines. This one has four going on: 1930s, early 1940s, late 1940s, mid 1950s, with three in color and one in black & white. A confusing mess if you aren't already familiar with Oppenheimer's story. Too much jumping around.

IMO, too much emphasis on the security clearance/commie stuff and almost nothing about the design of the bomb and the work required to separate U-235 and make plutonium. I suppose the rationale behind this decision was that it would be over the heads of the vast majority of the potential audience. Most of the famous physicists (Bohr, Einstein, Fermi, Szilard) only get cameos and only Rabi gets any real screen time.

[DavidAlfa]

Sometimes I think having slighly more working neurons than the average is more like a punishment that a benefits, films are made for empty skulls, so they don't understand sht but "Wow the music was loud!" 9 of 10!
(Not too vain, just 2 or more neurons, as I stopped drinking like an Irishmen at pretty young age LOL)

If you didn't see it and feel ashamed after viewing Oppenheimer and seekign for something good, I highly recommend Ex-Machina if you didn't watch it.
It's great and after several years I think it's time to watch it again!

[KE5FX]

The fact alone, that this Nolan guy puts digital nixie clocks back into 1945 makes it unwatchable for me.
https://youtu.be/9O2GXfiiNw4?t=69

Nolan, basically Michael Bay of science fiction/historical movies, big boom but no substance.

Michael Bay?!  That's not a fair assessment of Nolan, whatever you like/dislike about his work. 

Wikipedia says that similar tubes were patented in the 1930s, but there's no citation, or even a [Citation Needed] flag before I added one just now.  Back then, defense applications were still the literal bleeding edge of technology.  If anyone had access to numeric display tubes in the WWII era, it would've been these guys. 

Plus, they look cool.  I'll allow it.

[coppice]

The fact alone, that this Nolan guy puts digital nixie clocks back into 1945 makes it unwatchable for me.
https://youtu.be/9O2GXfiiNw4?t=69

Nolan, basically Michael Bay of science fiction/historical movies, big boom but no substance.

Michael Bay?!  That's not a fair assessment of Nolan, whatever you like/dislike about his work. 

Wikipedia says that similar tubes were patented in the 1930s, but there's no citation, or even a [Citation Needed] flag before I added one just now.  Back then, defense applications were still the literal bleeding edge of technology.  If anyone had access to numeric display tubes in the WWII era, it would've been these guys. 

Plus, they look cool.  I'll allow it.

Nolan is another character like Ridley Scott. His movies are all over the place, between excellent and utter garbage. Do these people have a very inconsistent output, or are they low calibre people who sometimes strike lucky and work with really good people?

Nixies date from Burroughs in the mid 50s, but there were incandescent displays where the digits are actually formed by filaments before that. They can look similar to nixies in pictures, although clearly different in real life. Since they didn't run the filament super hot, I expect their lifetime was quite reasonable. Digital displays pre-date digital electronics, as they were needed for use in relay logic systems.

[MadTux]

HP frequency counters, 10 years later, barely had nixies.
7 years later, 80kg box, for 8 digits, with neon indicator lamps.
https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/wa_pages/wall_a_page_11.htm
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hewlett_pa_frequency_counter_524a.html

Nixie tubes in 1945 is just like Battle of Britain, but with F104G and English Electric Lightning.
Or "Das Boot" with a Type XXI submarine, utter garbage!

Can't stand that Nolan guy, Dark Knight might have been a decent movie, the rest is just over hyped, pretentious Nolan ego cyclejerk.
If even the writing would be good, but not even that, weird pseudo-intellectual pseudo-scientifically accurate garbage from confused overinflated Nolan mind.
Best example, Interstellar, better watch Alien, if you want good, hard, entertaining Science-Fiction.

[HuronKing]

I saw the movie on Monday. I liked it a lot - probably one of the most important and most intellectual mainstream movies to come out in the last 10 years. It's getting people to talk about quantum physics, the men and women connected to Oppenheimer, and reminding the world of one of the biggest existential threats that face our existence - nuclear weapons.  It may not be an intentional parallel but I can see the lessons of Oppenheimer applied to climate change as well. Science has unlocked wonderful secrets and technology (combustion engines, electronics, and globalization) but those things are also existential threats facing the planet that scientists are trying to warn about while political interests try to ignore or suppress the danger.

I think its fantastic that this movie exists - its about Oppenheimer - not the Manhattan Project. His life didn't end at Los Alamos... it ended when his security clearance was revoked. The movie is about Oppenheimer's journey, his perspective, and Lewis Strauss' efforts to discredit him and other scientific philosophers who tried to oppose militarism in the atomic age.

I gotta thank you all for the laugh though.
"OMG! They had Nixie tubes in 1945! W0rst m0v1e ev3r!"

If you're watching a dramatization of the g*ddamn Trinity Test... and this is the takeaway... I dunno that Nolan or anyone else is capable of making the nerds happy. 

There are artistic flaws with the movie (I agree with Dave that the music was way too obnoxious during character conversations) and the movie assumes you have a basic understanding of Oppy's biography when the movie starts. But, making a faithful adaptation of American Prometheus (fantastic book BTW) is no easy feat. Short of breaking up the movie into multiple parts or a miniseries, I thought Nolan did a fine job and Cillian Murphy better win an Oscar.

[msuffidy]

Well murdering your prof with cyanide is a pretty big personal error up there with random bombings. I am GUESSING that didn't really happen? It is probably somewhere between reality and a sort of posh stereotype of being a physicist. And most people probably don't get Tinnitus disorders probably when imagining atomic psychics.

[EEVblog]

I think its fantastic that this movie exists - its about Oppenheimer - not the Manhattan Project. His life didn't end at Los Alamos... it ended when his security clearance was revoked. The movie is about Oppenheimer's journey, his perspective, and Lewis Strauss' efforts to discredit him and other scientific philosophers who tried to oppose militarism in the atomic age.

His life also would never have been of any mainstream importance were it not for the Manhatten project. That is the reason this movie was made and he was on the cover of Time magazine, and was one of the most well known people on the planet after it.
And his life didn't end after the security clearance was revoked. That really had no impact on anything in terms of his relevance to the public.

[EEVblog]

and the movie assumes you have a basic understanding of Oppy's biography when the movie starts.

Which is essentially zero people watching it.
They should have had info text on the screen with dates and what the scenes were about.

[Stray Electron]

Today i learned that Oppenheimer and many others at the Manhatten project were jewish. Seems like they joined in order to nuke Hitler for revenge, yet they were late and the Soviets had already taken Berlin. Then unexpected things happened.

Regards, Dieter

   You show an amazing lack of any knowledge of the development of atomic bomb. Einstein, and huge number of the other leading scientists were Jewish but they didn't get involved in the bomb project as some sort of revenge against Hitler. They have all been involved in research into atomic physics long before the war and most even before Hitler started oppressing the German Jews in roughly 1938. And don't forget that if that they had wished that the US to drop an atomic bomb on Hitler, it would have meant killed huge numbers of European Jews as well. And probably some of the European families of the atomic scientists. So dropping an atomic bomb on Germany purely for revenge WAS NOT something that they wished for.

   But the Jewish atomic scientists were aware of what Hitler was doing to the European Jews and one of their greatest fears was the Hitler would get an atomic bomb first and then become unstoppable and would be able to impose his "final-solution" on the rest of Europe and the rest of the world.  Therefore the Jewish atomic scientists and the American government were determined to built a bomb before the Germans could.

  I suggest that you go read up on the professional careers of Neils Bohr, Erico Fermi, Werner Hisenberg, Leo Szilard and Robert Oppenheimer and some of the other leading scientists involved directly, or indirectly, in the development of the atomic bomb.

   Yes, many of the scientists were Jewish but IMO only because the Jews have always pursued higher educations than non-Jewish. So a disproportionate number of our BEST scientists have always been, and continue to this day to be, Jewish.  Largely in part because historically in Europe the Jews were not allowed own land so they couldn't farm and they were also banned from many other professions so they have been forced to pursue careers as scientists, doctors, lawyers, college professors, and bankers.  All careers that demand a higher than average education.  Another Jew that literally changed the world and that is well worth reading up on is Fritz Haber.

[HuronKing]

I think its fantastic that this movie exists - its about Oppenheimer - not the Manhattan Project. His life didn't end at Los Alamos... it ended when his security clearance was revoked. The movie is about Oppenheimer's journey, his perspective, and Lewis Strauss' efforts to discredit him and other scientific philosophers who tried to oppose militarism in the atomic age.

His life also would never have been of any mainstream importance were it not for the Manhatten project. That is the reason this movie was made and he was on the cover of Time magazine, and was one of the most well known people on the planet after it.
And his life didn't end after the security clearance was revoked. That really had no impact on anything in terms of his relevance to the public.

You're saying his influence on the public and ability to make contributions to science wasn't diminished by being humiliatingly  defrocked as a suspected communist?  Have you read American Prometheus? 

The movie tracks his early years, his rise to fame, and his fall from grace and ability to influence public policy decisions. He never made any more substantial scientific discoveries or made any major policy influence after his clearance was revoked (other than the academic scientific community banding together to trash Lewis Strauss).  The man's life was more than the Manhattan Project even if that's what made him mainstream famous. He made important contributions to quantum physics, he brought quantum physics to America, built the theoretical physics departments at Caltech and UC Berkeley from almost scratch (something the movie somehow manages to make exciting), and of course had difficult personal relationships with many important people that led to his downfall.

Which is essentially zero people watching it.

Audiences disagree. It's one of only 19 movies so far this year to break $100 million on an opening weekend. I tried to buy tickets to see it again and theaters are almost sold out in my area for the next 2 weeks.
The movie also has outstanding scores from both critics and viewers:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/oppenheimer_2023
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15398776/

They should have had info text on the screen with dates and what the scenes were about.

Maybe. On the other hand, it's a challenging movie and audiences might very well be starved these days for some intellectual content that doesn't spoonfeed its message and story.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the movie and were perhaps misled by the marketing that the film would focus heavily/exclusively on the technical details of the Manhattan Project. For me, I'm glad a movie about Oppenheimer and based on the comprehensive biography showed that he was *more* than just the Father of the Atomic Bomb... he was also a regular father too.

[fourfathom]

Well murdering your prof with cyanide is a pretty big personal error up there with random bombings. I am GUESSING that didn't really happen?

According to "Modern Prometheus" Oppenheimer did indeed inject some type of poison into his professor's apple, or at least he claimed that he did.  The exact details vary, depending on who is relating the story.  The professor probably didn't eat the apple.  His father pulled strings so that Oppenheimer wasn't expelled or prosecuted, but one of the conditions was that he take psychiatric counseling.  He was definitely a troubled, brilliant, young man.

[TimFox]

Today i learned that Oppenheimer and many others at the Manhatten project were jewish. Seems like they joined in order to nuke Hitler for revenge, yet they were late and the Soviets had already taken Berlin. Then unexpected things happened.

Regards, Dieter

   You show an amazing lack of any knowledge of the development of atomic bomb. Einstein, and huge number of the other leading scientists were Jewish but they didn't get involved in the bomb project as some sort of revenge against Hitler. They have all been involved in research into atomic physics long before the war and most even before Hitler started oppressing the German Jews in roughly 1938. And don't forget that if that they had wished that the US to drop an atomic bomb on Hitler, it would have meant killed huge numbers of European Jews as well. And probably some of the European families of the atomic scientists. So dropping an atomic bomb on Germany purely for revenge WAS NOT something that they wished for.

   But the Jewish atomic scientists were aware of what Hitler was doing to the European Jews and one of their greatest fears was the Hitler would get an atomic bomb first and then become unstoppable and would be able to impose his "final-solution" on the rest of Europe and the rest of the world.  Therefore the Jewish atomic scientists and the American government were determined to built a bomb before the Germans could.

  I suggest that you go read up on the professional careers of Neils Bohr, Erico Fermi, Werner Hisenberg, Leo Szilard and Robert Oppenheimer and some of the other leading scientists involved directly, or indirectly, in the development of the atomic bomb.

   Yes, many of the scientists were Jewish but IMO only because the Jews have always pursued higher educations than non-Jewish. So a disproportionate number of our BEST scientists have always been, and continue to this day to be, Jewish.  Largely in part because historically in Europe the Jews were not allowed own land so they couldn't farm and they were also banned from many other professions so they have been forced to pursue careers as scientists, doctors, lawyers, college professors, and bankers.  All careers that demand a higher than average education.  Another Jew that literally changed the world and that is well worth reading up on is Fritz Haber.

Fritz Haber was a scientific hero of Germany in WWI, but the Nazis cancelled him anyway in 1933.
He was awarded the Iron Cross in 1915, and the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1918.
Hitler's policies were a huge source of talent into British and American universities, including my alma mater (U Chicago).
Many of the scientists on the Manhattan Project were technically enemy aliens at the time.
Heisenberg remained behind in Germany, despite his knowledge of what the Nazis called Jewish science, but was unable to build a working bomb.

[TimFox]

A surprisingly good TV movie about the Manhattan Project is "Day One" from 1989.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097159/
There are a lot of gizmos for those bored by biography.
My favorite scene had several PhDs assembling the physics package for Trinity, while Oppenheimer is pacing nervously behind them until they chase him away.

For the nitpickers:  like most TV movies of that era, much was shot in Canada for tax reasons.
McGill University was the backdrop for stuff that happened at the University of Chicago.
Windsor Station in Montreal served both for Berlin Hauptbahnhof and a rail station in Chicago.
Some have pointed out that the London buses and reel-to-reel tape recorders were anachronistic, along with some inappropriate stock footage of other nuclear blasts.

Brian Dennehy was especially good as General Groves, in an all-star cast.

[dietert1]

Well murdering your prof with cyanide is a pretty big personal error up there with random bombings. I am GUESSING that didn't really happen?

According to "Modern Prometheus" Oppenheimer did indeed inject some type of poison into his professor's apple, or at least he claimed that he did.  The exact details vary, depending on who is relating the story.  The professor probably didn't eat the apple.  His father pulled strings so that Oppenheimer wasn't expelled or prosecuted, but one of the conditions was that he take psychiatric counseling.  He was definitely a troubled, brilliant, young man.

In the ABC radio podcast linked above by Circlotron Oppenheimers biographer Ray Monk reports a second similar attack and that the treatment involved sex with a professional. The term "random bombings" by msuffidy says it all. IMHO scaling up known science from micrograms to kilograms was a technological achievement, not a scientific one.
Today we see the upscaling of AI and nobody can say whether it will be dangerous or important. Depends on whether they can control the chain reaction.

Regards, Dieter

[TimFox]

W Heisenberg, with many talented German engineers, was not able to achieve that scaling, of work originally done in Germany by scientists expelled later from the Reich (and by others who stayed).

[HuronKing]

Here is something different to consider that I can't find any positive research on - if William Shockley had taken any classes from Oppenheimer.

It's entirely possible - Shockley got his B.S. in Physics from Caltech in 1932 and Oppenheimer was a physics lecturer there starting in 1930 teaching courses like Statistical Mechanics, Quantum Theory, and Quantum Radiation.

I wonder if a call to Caltech Admins & Records could demonstrate if Shockley got any tutelage from Oppenheimer. 

[Stray Electron]

Fritz Haber was a scientific hero of Germany in WWI, but the Nazis cancelled him anyway in 1933.
He was awarded the Iron Cross in 1915, and the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1918.

Hitler's policies were a huge source of talent into British and American universities, including my alma mater (U Chicago).

  Fritz Haber was a national hero in Germany between the world wars and Adolf Hitler personally offered to make an exception to the anti-Jewish laws for him but he turned down that offer and wanted to maintain his Jewish identity.

   Absolutely!  I serious doubt that the US could have built the bomb or made many of their other scientific advances without the aid of the very people that the Nazis drove out of Germany!
   Ironic, isn't it?

 

[David Hess]

Scott Manley just did a 20 minute video about the Trinity test which includes as many details about the design and construction as I have seen in one place:

https://youtu.be/H1QuZ6nsC68

I wonder if they still use Kryton switches.  The datasheet he shows confirms that there are at least two different solid state switch designs with the needed performance.

My father worked at LRL and told me the story about the huge photoflash for reconnaissance planes.  I did not know the connection until now.  He never told me exactly what he worked on but I figured it out later.

[msuffidy]

The movie sort of treated the bomb like oh it really worked. I mean when you think of the progression from discovery of fission to bomb, there has to be some logical steps. Like someone must of thought well if we have a lot of fissions in one place it would do basically the same thing as a chemical explosion, but more powerfully. Maybe someone was messing with bringing a certain amount of material together and had a small tactical kind of explosion and people just thought about how to improve it. There may have been a thrust to it for some reason the Nazis were interested in it. Maybe they were brought to it by extraterrestrials. Saying oh we decided to make it is kind of useless because everyone was going to. The world is more fundamentally out of control than people give credit to.

[JPortici]

Stolen from the web 

[David Hess]

Like someone must of thought well if we have a lot of fissions in one place it would do basically the same thing as a chemical explosion, but more powerfully.

That someone was Leo Szilard.  The film Fat Man and Little Boy started off with him.

[TimFox]

When Szilard had his idea about a chain reaction, he filed for a British patent that he assigned to the Admiralty to keep it secret.  He was at the University of Chicago during the war.