Author Topic: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..  (Read 12156 times)

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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« on: May 21, 2010, 08:05:44 pm »
Well when ever I came close to deal with mini SMT , I got in trouble ..

My tools looked as giants , and the SMT parts looked that small , that I could hardly see of what I was doing.

I do own some magnification lens , hand held .

And I have mixed feelings , about getting a better magnification lens with base and light ,
or one small microscope.

Tell me, or show to us , your solutions. 
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2010, 08:44:12 pm »
microscope, i would have gone with a boom stand style instead of the typical one, those jeweler type googles that go over your head with leds and the larger lense thats mostly one piece vs the type that have one lens per eye, various small magnifying glasses, helping hands etc.

usb digital micrscope is handy, but its easier and cheaper to make one out of a webcam i've found, plus typically better image quality. 
 

Offline tecman

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 09:23:20 pm »
Same here.  I bought a 10x-60x stereo microscope. 

What a new world.  My old eye can see again.

Paul
 

Offline qno

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2010, 09:32:11 pm »
I have an Olympus stereo X10 microscope.
It is good quality.
Take care when you buy one.
Seek a wide vision with low loss of light.
And take care the light does not discolor.

USB microscope are very bad with colors. Blue looks green on your screen.
The white leds that light up the scene are not truly white.

My 2ct's of advice.
Why spend money I don't have on things I don't need to impress people I don't like?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2010, 10:10:21 pm »
Vision Engineering's Mantis is the ultimate SMT work magnifier if you can afford it. Much more comfortable to use than a microscope, and plenty of room to work under it. Older ones can occasionally be found on ebay.
The x4 lens gives about the right balance between field of view & magnification. A Zoom would be nice but doubtless even more expensive....

A really bright bench light also works wonders, magnifier or not.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Offline charliex

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2010, 12:21:27 am »
Indeed the usb microscopes are nowhere near as good as a regular microscope, but its also a massive difference in cost. They're useful as a secondary, the missus bought me a wireless one that works reasonably well for inspecting tracks etc.

you can screw around with an iSight or such and get a decent camera out of it, i pulled the lense off a unibrain firewire camera and added a ringlight to it. I also have a meade usb camera that just fits in the eyepiece of my microscope. though you can buy purpose made ones. . microsoft have some good cheap hires webcams you can repurpose too.
 

Offline TheDirty

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2010, 12:30:23 am »
I use 3x reading glasses.
Mark Higgins
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2010, 01:59:25 am »
The point is, that the "what ever" good solution , it must be practical ,so to do welding with it help.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 02:29:34 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline allanw

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2010, 02:20:12 am »
I know you dislike these bootleg chinese products but I have this and it works pretty well for the price:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22831

The LED is super bright. The lens focusing isn't the best though, but the magnification is excellent.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 02:21:47 am by allanw »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 02:31:16 am »
I dislike anything that dies between a week and 6 years  ..  ;)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 02:33:13 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline TheDirty

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 02:58:48 am »
I know you dislike these bootleg chinese products but I have this and it works pretty well for the price:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22831

The LED is super bright. The lens focusing isn't the best though, but the magnification is excellent.
I have one of these and they are great.  You can take it apart and remove a plastic piece in the sleeve to give the lens more travel to focus a bit further.  These are for inspection, though.  You can't actually use it while you're soldering.

IMO.  Short of buying a stereoscopic magnifier for a few hundred dollars, the reading glasses with desk lamp are the best solution, then one of those desk magnifiers.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 03:03:10 am by TheDirty »
Mark Higgins
 

Offline redek

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2010, 03:22:43 am »
Headband magnifying glasses work great, but I rarely use them since my eyes are pretty good.  I then use a microscope to check for shorted pins.
 

Offline Matt

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2010, 03:38:45 am »
I use one of these magnifying lamps:  http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/5120-0057/Luxo-16346/
These Luxo models are good quality ones, not the cheap ones that you need to adjust the knobs every two minutes to keep it in place.
This along with my Panavise makes it easy to work with SMT devices

-Matt
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 03:46:01 am by Matt »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 05:28:09 am »
I dislike anything that dies between a week and 6 years  ..  ;)
get the mantis one or other micro that cost thousands :)

mine is simple... $30 magnifying glass and hacked $10 elcheapo handheld microscope, i dont think i'll be needing more, since i got no "serious" issue with it. other than less sharp optic, very shalow DOF, and need more powerful lighting, the real serious issue is..... my "jittery hand"! its damned jittery below this glass, and it sucks!. in the end i just ended up using my bare eyes, and check the bad connection later using this magnifier, mostly using handheld lens (the other part (front part) from the hacked micro in the picture)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 05:30:33 am by shafri »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2010, 11:24:05 am »
I use one of these magnifying lamps:  http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/5120-0057/Luxo-16346/
These Luxo models are good quality ones, not the cheap ones that you need to adjust the knobs every two minutes to keep it in place.
This along with my Panavise makes it easy to work with SMT devices

-Matt

Thanks Matt , this design is what I have in mind for beginning too .
But , locally my options are dry ..  

If there is others respectable products like this , I do like to know more about them.

In the place that I work , I have see such options but "full metal "  with even three lamps in them.
  
 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 05:33:06 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2010, 04:22:13 pm »
Yep the luxo is the one i have too , thumbs up on that one.
 

Offline RayJones

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2010, 10:14:52 pm »
x4 or x8 Mantis. FTW.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 01:29:27 pm »
Got my solution " locally "   ;)

The most expensive that I could found , "full metal" construction with cover ..  

It was a 48 EUR retail , but the Professionals always gets discounts , so got it for just 38 EUR.

Its just  " a m a z i n g "   working with mini items , become a game ..  
I should had taking  one of those ... long long time back ..   Night / Day deference ..
True glass magnifier ... not plastic .  

Pictures ...

« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 01:37:08 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2010, 01:30:43 pm »
more pictures ..
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2010, 08:49:39 am »

mine is simple... $30 magnifying glass and hacked $10 elcheapo handheld microscope, i dont think i'll be needing more, since i got no "serious" issue with it. other than less sharp optic, very shalow DOF, and need more powerful lighting, the real serious issue is..... my "jittery hand"! its damned jittery below this glass, and it sucks!. in the end i just ended up using my bare eyes, and check the bad connection later using this magnifier, mostly using handheld lens (the other part (front part) from the hacked micro in the picture)


shafri   , can you focus  with the additional 8 x 20 Monocular on the top of the magnifier ?
And if you do ,  what is the average distance ,  between the magnifier and  the  target area .. in centimeters ?

« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 08:52:02 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2010, 02:59:33 pm »
shafri   , can you focus  with the additional 8 x 20 Monocular on the top of the magnifier ?
And if you do ,  what is the average distance ,  between the magnifier and  the  target area .. in centimeters ?
there is focus ring on it, but i'd rather fix it and move the whole thing. the distance is around 20cm from subject to lens/eye. the magnification is great!... for me.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2010, 05:45:42 pm »
Well I am looking for one add on solution ,  I will do my tests and report back , if I come up with a handy solution.

I have issues with the super mini SMT parts .. 
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2010, 06:57:57 am »
...if I come up with a handy solution.
I have issues with the super mini SMT parts .. 
yea! once u get done with it, you will have another issue with your hands! see my previous post.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2010, 11:43:46 am »
Why not simply get the right headset?

You can use any lighting, go anywhere with it, work on any location and it costs far less.



With a table magnifier light, you are stuck to working in the general area of the light.

Of course, there are magnification limits where you need a microscope, but until then, its also easier to maintain.

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2010, 12:14:07 pm »
once you work with a magnifier (i mean ANY magnifiers), you will limit your field of view angle, you cannot see whats surrounding. i once almost soldered my own hand (left) with iron on the right. i'll either use my bare eye for soldering, for really tiny parts, reflow is only the suitable answer, magnifier is only suitable for checking, IMO.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2010, 02:56:04 pm »
Kiriakos... u posted a damaged smt in your olympus https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=727.0 gave me an idea. i modify my magnifier further to add USB Camera... so its a USB SMT Microscope Camera... hehehe... ;D

not as good as the real thing though! need some post image editing and proper lighting to capture the image. Last pic shows a similar shape but different size to your damaged transistor i think, only R25 is written on it. not sure if its compatible with your BW.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 02:59:40 pm by shafri »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2010, 06:16:46 pm »
Yes, that's why with a headset, you can pop the magnifying lens in and out, or even choose the right type [ on the visors they are user replaceable]  for the work being done.


once you work with a magnifier (i mean ANY magnifiers), you will limit your field of view angle, you cannot see whats surrounding. i once almost soldered my own hand (left) with iron on the right. i'll either use my bare eye for soldering, for really tiny parts, reflow is only the suitable answer, magnifier is only suitable for checking, IMO.

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline cybergibbons

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2010, 10:22:33 pm »
I picked up a magnifying light the other day which is 1.75x, and it has an arm that swings in front of it that says 4 diopter on it, whatever that means for magnifications.

It's much better than other ones I have tried, and when using it, it pretty closely looks like this:

 

Offline charliex

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2010, 12:26:16 am »
thats one looks pretty clear, is it a hand held loupe?
 

Offline cybergibbons

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Re: Optical magnification gear ... SMT and general use..
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2010, 07:14:58 am »
thats one looks pretty clear, is it a hand held loupe?

It's the main lens, with a 4 diopter smaller lens (about the size of a loupe) in front of it.

The working distance with the main lens is high enough to solder, but with this it's greatly reduced. It's good for examining boards though.
 


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