Author Topic: Ot: Dishwashers  (Read 14940 times)

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Offline thm_w

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2020, 10:53:46 pm »
Contrary to Alec's (Technology Connections) comments on Bosch dishwashers, the system is far superior to American dishwashers, in my opinion!

Bosch machines use a filter to catch big waste, which means the biggest waste can be siphoned off and cleaned every 30 or so uses (~3 months) into the general waste.  This big waste is not macerated and recirculated within the machine, which clogs pipes and adds dirt to dishes being rinsed.  You should remove big waste from dishes before loading them; I think this is true of all dishwashers.  And while pre-rinsing is a waste of time (why people still do this baffles me),  you should make some effort to take the largest waste off the plates as the machines are not designed to remove these effectively.

He didn't give the impression to me that one system is clearly superior. But anyway I agree, filter system is better. The issue is consumers don't want to perform basic maintenance. So the filter will fully clog after ~12 months and then customer will complain to the manufacturer that their dishwasher stopped working. Instead of with the macerator that clog or self destruct after ~3 years at which point, customer will buy a new dishwasher or pay someone to come clean it out, less calls to the manufacturer.

Nowhere outside of USA has significant use of garbage disposals. We may see this change due to the biogas aspect.

Can't see it changing, too many issues with fats clogging up sewer pipes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg
An eco friendly city would have a food/organic waste pickup stream: https://environmentvictoria.org.au/resource/organic-waste/
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Offline tom66

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2020, 11:39:31 pm »
Our garden waste is collected every 2 weeks here, even in winter, as you are supposed to put your food waste into the garden waste bin.  It's then made into compost which is used for local farms and occasionally sold in DIY shops nearby.  Seems like a good idea to me.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2020, 01:03:06 am »
Well one reason is that garbage disposals are insanity to begin with. It makes no sense to burden the sewage system with food scraps it was never intended to handle. It’s not that it can’t handle them at all, but it wasn’t designed for it. However, new wastewater treatment plants designed to produce and capture biogas actually benefit from garbage disposals, so the situation may change in the long run.

Nowhere outside of USA has significant use of garbage disposals. We may see this change due to the biogas aspect.

Maybe it's just a cultural thing? Everyone has a garbage disposal here, even apartments. Occasionally you see a house built in the 1950s or earlier that doesn't but it's pretty rare, the Insinkerator is as ubiquitous as the microwave oven, common enough that the brand name has become a colloquial term like Kleenex or Hoover to describe similar units made by other companies. The house I grew up in had a septic tank so my dad always discouraged using the disposal for anything other than crumbs but I've never heard anyone suggest there was any issue with them in homes that are on a sewer connection. I suppose it could be an issue if you produced a tremendous amount of food waste but for the occasional off-cuts, scraps and crumbs I don't see it being an issue. I have a compost pile out in the corner of my yard where I dump grass clippings and stuff I prune off the trees so occasionally if something like a whole fruit or vegetable goes bad I'll toss it in that pile but I can't be bothered to trek outside for small scraps so into the disposal it goes. My mom used to keep a compost bucket in the kitchen sink, still does in fact and I've always hated it. Even with a lid on it attracts fruit flies and if you open the thing to put something in it stinks up the whole kitchen, blech. Probably would be ok if it was emptied daily but that didn't happen.

We can get yard/food waste service here too but it costs a significant amount extra on top of garbage pickup, at least our recycling is free. There's a ravine at the edge of my back yard so for me it has always worked to have the compost pile back there, it helps compensate for the erosion that takes place.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 01:12:14 am by james_s »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2020, 01:09:17 am »
A colleague of mine has a washing machine from Bosch with six cotton presets: the standard 30C, 40C, 60C, and 90C ones, then two ones with the 'eco tag' symbol next to them, 40C and 60C.

The 'eco tag' ones are the ones compliant with the EU standard and the machine will achieve its greatest efficiency in those modes, but one wonders how many customers really know the difference between those settings and just use the plain setting, thinking the tag means something 'bad'? (In some senses, their instinct may be correct, as the eco profile likely isn't as good as cleaning as other profiles...)

Probably most of them. My washer has a bunch of settings I never touch, and my dryer has a fancy continuous temperature adjustment slider I never mess with either, except when it burned out and I had to replace it.

On that note, it's a rather stupid design. I assumed it did something like measure the temperature of the air flowing through the dryer and cycle the heating element accordingly with an electronic control but no, it's nothing more than a potentiometer connected directly to mains voltage that is in series with a power resistor attached to the bimetal thermostat that regulates the element temperature. Turning down the slider increases the current through the resistor which heats up the thermostat, indirectly reducing the heater temperature.  :palm:
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2020, 01:15:13 am »
I wonder how long it takes for the capsules to dissolve? I mean when the powder detergent is dispensed it must dissolve almost instantly and starts washing. The pouches must take time to reach full strength and take away cleaning time from the cycle?

It wouldn't be too hard to do a scientific test to find out. I don't think it's significant though, the pouches dissolve very quickly, you have to remember to dry your hands before handling them or they start to get gooey. Whatever the case, the pouches I've been using result in very clean dishes, maybe that's due to having exactly the right quantity of detergent, maybe it's due to the composition of the detergent, maybe something else or maybe a combination of things.
 

Offline Alex EisenhutTopic starter

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2020, 02:58:42 am »
I agree the coating gets gooey quickly, but the puck inside? Don't know. Too lazy. Let Alec test it.
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Online ejeffrey

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2020, 06:11:13 am »
I agree the coating gets gooey quickly, but the puck inside? Don't know. Too lazy. Let Alec test it.

I suspect being sprayed by pressurized hot water breaks it open pretty quickly.  The remnants may take a few minutes to dissolve after releasing the detergent.

But yeah, I will wait for TC to test it.
 

Online ejeffrey

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2020, 06:27:03 am »

Nowhere outside of USA has significant use of garbage disposals. We may see this change due to the biogas aspect.

Can't see it changing, too many issues with fats clogging up sewer pipes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg
An eco friendly city would have a food/organic waste pickup stream: https://environmentvictoria.org.au/resource/organic-waste/

I thought that was mostly about the marketing of disposable wipes as "flushable" which they most certainly are not?  Obviously oil and grease are a problem as well, but I always assumed that was people who just poured their frying pan of oil or bacon grease directly into the sink rather than use of garbage disposals.  I haven't heard any claims that the US has dramatically more fatbergs than other industrialized countries, despite our use of garbage disposals, but perhaps that is just because most of our sewers are newer and in better condition than those in the London.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2020, 05:28:37 pm »
Well one reason is that garbage disposals are insanity to begin with. It makes no sense to burden the sewage system with food scraps it was never intended to handle. It’s not that it can’t handle them at all, but it wasn’t designed for it. However, new wastewater treatment plants designed to produce and capture biogas actually benefit from garbage disposals, so the situation may change in the long run.

Nowhere outside of USA has significant use of garbage disposals. We may see this change due to the biogas aspect.

Maybe it's just a cultural thing? Everyone has a garbage disposal here, even apartments. Occasionally you see a house built in the 1950s or earlier that doesn't but it's pretty rare, the Insinkerator is as ubiquitous as the microwave oven, common enough that the brand name has become a colloquial term like Kleenex or Hoover to describe similar units made by other companies. The house I grew up in had a septic tank so my dad always discouraged using the disposal for anything other than crumbs but I've never heard anyone suggest there was any issue with them in homes that are on a sewer connection. I suppose it could be an issue if you produced a tremendous amount of food waste but for the occasional off-cuts, scraps and crumbs I don't see it being an issue. I have a compost pile out in the corner of my yard where I dump grass clippings and stuff I prune off the trees so occasionally if something like a whole fruit or vegetable goes bad I'll toss it in that pile but I can't be bothered to trek outside for small scraps so into the disposal it goes. My mom used to keep a compost bucket in the kitchen sink, still does in fact and I've always hated it. Even with a lid on it attracts fruit flies and if you open the thing to put something in it stinks up the whole kitchen, blech. Probably would be ok if it was emptied daily but that didn't happen.

We can get yard/food waste service here too but it costs a significant amount extra on top of garbage pickup, at least our recycling is free. There's a ravine at the edge of my back yard so for me it has always worked to have the compost pile back there, it helps compensate for the erosion that takes place.
Wiki says about 50% of US homes have garbage disposals. I never had a place with one. But yeah, I think it is cultural. Swiss people have never heard of them, they’re absolutely shocked when they visit USA and see them for the first time! :p

Contrary to Alec's (Technology Connections) comments on Bosch dishwashers, the system is far superior to American dishwashers, in my opinion!

Bosch machines use a filter to catch big waste, which means the biggest waste can be siphoned off and cleaned every 30 or so uses (~3 months) into the general waste.  This big waste is not macerated and recirculated within the machine, which clogs pipes and adds dirt to dishes being rinsed.  You should remove big waste from dishes before loading them; I think this is true of all dishwashers.  And while pre-rinsing is a waste of time (why people still do this baffles me),  you should make some effort to take the largest waste off the plates as the machines are not designed to remove these effectively.

He didn't give the impression to me that one system is clearly superior. But anyway I agree, filter system is better. The issue is consumers don't want to perform basic maintenance. So the filter will fully clog after ~12 months and then customer will complain to the manufacturer that their dishwasher stopped working. Instead of with the macerator that clog or self destruct after ~3 years at which point, customer will buy a new dishwasher or pay someone to come clean it out, less calls to the manufacturer.
Ummmm... what? Bosch dishwashers work like pretty much every European dishwasher: filter screens of various mesh sizes are placed ahead of the recirculating pump, such that debris is trapped and doesn’t clog the spray arms. Then, when draining, water back-flows across the screens, releasing the debris into the wastewater, where it is pumped out. Only massively large debris like stays behind. Nothing to do with siphons. (Stuff like paper jar labels will sometimes be caught on the outer mesh strainer.)

The fine mesh filter needs to be cleaned periodically, definitely far more often than yearly! I do it about every two months, since I live alone and don’t need to run it super frequently.

I follow the rule of “scrape, but don’t rinse” that is recommended by experts.

Nowhere outside of USA has significant use of garbage disposals. We may see this change due to the biogas aspect.

Can't see it changing, too many issues with fats clogging up sewer pipes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg
An eco friendly city would have a food/organic waste pickup stream: https://environmentvictoria.org.au/resource/organic-waste/

That is not a hypothetical. The wiki article mentions a Swedish town that is encouraging people to get garbage disposals to improve the yield of their new biogas wastewater treatment plant. It being Sweden, I’m pretty sure they already have robust organic waste recovery.

And there’s no correlation between fatbergs and disposal waste, as far as I’ve been able to find. In my experience, most people only use them for vegetable waste, not for greasy meat scraps, since you can’t but bones into them anyway.


Can't see it changing, too many issues with fats clogging up sewer pipes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg
An eco friendly city would have a food/organic waste pickup stream: https://environmentvictoria.org.au/resource/organic-waste/

I thought that was mostly about the marketing of disposable wipes as "flushable" which they most certainly are not?  Obviously oil and grease are a problem as well, but I always assumed that was people who just poured their frying pan of oil or bacon grease directly into the sink rather than use of garbage disposals.  I haven't heard any claims that the US has dramatically more fatbergs than other industrialized countries, despite our use of garbage disposals, but perhaps that is just because most of our sewers are newer and in better condition than those in the London.

Yeah, fatbergs are thanks to “flushable” wipes. I find it appalling that the manufacturers are allowed to make that claim, when they demonstrably do not dissolve in water. (And why would they? They’re engineered for long-term storage in aqueous cleanser, after all!) I’m not against the wipes, I am just baffled at why the manufacturers are so vehemently opposed to just saying “do not flush, throw into trash” on the package, like baby wipes.

FYI, while pouring grease down the drain is a huge no-no, it’s not the source of most of the fat in sewage. Most of it mundanely comes from dishwashing, because even what’s dissolved with soap eventually separates out again, and the chemical reactions with soaps and cleaners cause the fats to solidify into waxy substances.


As for bacon grease, I wish they sold the grease coagulant that’s apparently commonplace in Japan: you just add some granules to the grease in the pan, and a few minutes later it’s a gel you can toss in the trash with no mess!!

This reminds me that I have a few bottles of used frying oil that I need to take to the recycling... and all the other recyclables too... sigh...

 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2020, 05:39:16 pm »
I'd rather my food scraps go through the sewage system and end up as viable biomass for creating energy etc than into my household trash and end up in a landfill. I dump a bowel load of my own material into the sewer, a few vegetable scraps that didn't make it to my dinner plate isn't any different.

I used to live on land where I could compost material but not anymore. I could "save" my scraps and take them to the local recycling place but then I'd have to get in my car and waste resources...
 

Offline madires

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2020, 06:13:32 pm »
Over here we have a separate trash can for bio-waste (brown trash can). Based on the municipality the bio-waste is used for bio-gas (to run power generators) or for compost. And people with a garden and living in rural areas usually also have a compost heap or box.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2020, 09:15:48 pm »
I'd rather my food scraps go through the sewage system and end up as viable biomass for creating energy etc than into my household trash and end up in a landfill. I dump a bowel load of my own material into the sewer, a few vegetable scraps that didn't make it to my dinner plate isn't any different.

I don't think it is anything to do with the sewage system as such, more the style of plumbing that is common in the houses.

The diameter of the pipe in the kitchen and toilet is different. Kitchen sinks are often connected to much smaller diameter pipes that the ones in the toilets, so they clog much easier, especially if there is any sort of bend or poor gradient somewhere. And I can tell you, having to clear a clog somewhere deep in the wall because some idiot keeps pouring grease or food leftovers down the drain is not fun. That's why you will find removable filters in most kitchen sinks in Europe that are meant to catch that.

Most European houses don't have plumbing dimensioned for solid waste except in the bathrooms.
 
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2020, 09:26:09 pm »
FWIW, the first generation of lower volume flush toilets in the US were aptly described by their intended function. i.e., full of sh!t.

2 out of 3 times all the ones where I used to live would not flush my "efforts" away and would block. I had to fill a large saucepan full of hot water (with some soap) and pour it in from a height of about 5 feet TWICE at least to clear the toilet. Since I was on a septic system, I couldn't keep using chemicals. And the shape of the bowl meant that plungers were useless.

*This* is a toilet...

 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2020, 09:31:51 pm »
A colleague of mine has a washing machine from Bosch with six cotton presets: the standard 30C, 40C, 60C, and 90C ones, then two ones with the 'eco tag' symbol next to them, 40C and 60C.

The 'eco tag' ones are the ones compliant with the EU standard and the machine will achieve its greatest efficiency in those modes, but one wonders how many customers really know the difference between those settings and just use the plain setting, thinking the tag means something 'bad'? (In some senses, their instinct may be correct, as the eco profile likely isn't as good as cleaning as other profiles...)

Probably most of them. My washer has a bunch of settings I never touch, and my dryer has a fancy continuous temperature adjustment slider I never mess with either, except when it burned out and I had to replace it.

On that note, it's a rather stupid design. I assumed it did something like measure the temperature of the air flowing through the dryer and cycle the heating element accordingly with an electronic control but no, it's nothing more than a potentiometer connected directly to mains voltage that is in series with a power resistor attached to the bimetal thermostat that regulates the element temperature. Turning down the slider increases the current through the resistor which heats up the thermostat, indirectly reducing the heater temperature.  :palm:

The nice thing about US washers (older ones, anway) is you can literally get inside to repair them:

 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2020, 09:33:14 pm »
Ummmm... what? Bosch dishwashers work like pretty much every European dishwasher: filter screens of various mesh sizes are placed ahead of the recirculating pump, such that debris is trapped and doesn’t clog the spray arms. Then, when draining, water back-flows across the screens, releasing the debris into the wastewater, where it is pumped out. Only massively large debris like stays behind. Nothing to do with siphons. (Stuff like paper jar labels will sometimes be caught on the outer mesh strainer.)

The fine mesh filter needs to be cleaned periodically, definitely far more often than yearly! I do it about every two months, since I live alone and don’t need to run it super frequently.

Not sure what the confusion is. Yes the filter needs to be cleaned often, most people in north america would hate a product designed in this way, which is why they tend to sell the "grinder" style more here.

Quote
That is not a hypothetical. The wiki article mentions a Swedish town that is encouraging people to get garbage disposals to improve the yield of their new biogas wastewater treatment plant. It being Sweden, I’m pretty sure they already have robust organic waste recovery.

And there’s no correlation between fatbergs and disposal waste, as far as I’ve been able to find. In my experience, most people only use them for vegetable waste, not for greasy meat scraps, since you can’t but bones into them anyway.

We have constant ads locally about not pouring food, specifically fats like yogurt, down the drain as its causing problems for the local water department. Using a garbage disposal encourages putting all kinds of food types into the sewer system (but you are right, it can be lower fat). Its probably not a good idea to dump a bunch of grease in the dishwasher either, better scrape it into the compost.

Perhaps the swedish sewer system is better built, and their residents are better at not flushing non-flushable material?

https://niagarafalls.ca/city-hall/municipal-works/fat-oil-grease.aspx
https://sustain.ubc.ca/sites/default/files/2018-27%20Estimating%20the%20impact%20of%20residential%20fats%2C%20oil%20and%20grease%20on%20wastewater%20system_Vazquez%20Perez.pdf
https://www.baltimoresun.com/citypaper/bcp-grease-patrol-the-city-steps-up-enforcement-on-restaurants-dumping-grease-in-the-sewers-20150317-story.html

Quote
Results of data analyzed show that the residents of Metro Vancouver introduce an estimated 1019 tonnes of FOG per year into the sewers of the region. From that figure, 27% comes from dairy products, mainly milk, cheese, and egg; while cooking oils and animal fats contribute with 20% of the total mass. The food waste disposed of ‘down the drain’ usually includes  a liquid  or  semi-liquid  component, like milk,  dressings,  sauces, and  yogurt. Most than half (56%) of the total FOG loading comes from single-family detached houses. 58% of it is introduced in the wastewater system through the sink. Foods disposed through food grinders contribute 32% of the total FOG mass, although it is noted that residents mostly used food grinders to dispose of fruits and vegetables, i.e., food with low-fat content.

Quote
Fats, oils, and grease are a major factor in sewer overflows. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has estimated that they cause as many as 47 percent of reported sewage blockages.
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Offline helius

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2020, 10:04:06 pm »
But anyway I agree, filter system is better. The issue is consumers don't want to perform basic maintenance. So the filter will fully clog after ~12 months and then customer will complain to the manufacturer that their dishwasher stopped working. Instead of with the macerator that clog or self destruct after ~3 years at which point, customer will buy a new dishwasher or pay someone to come clean it out, less calls to the manufacturer.

This entire discussion is mystifying to me. My dishwasher uses a filter, not a "grinder", but it washes the filter off itself using a spray nozzle and it seldom needs to be cleaned. It's older than I am and hasn't required repair in decades. I also have never used "rinse aid" and don't see any reason to do so.

You should not pre-rinse your dishes and you should never run the dishwasher empty using detergent. The detergent is alkaline and it will ruin the metal and rubber inside the machine if there is no grease for it to attack. Cleaning the machine itself should be done using a mild acid like vinegar or citric acid.
 
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2020, 10:32:22 pm »
The detergent is alkaline and it will ruin the metal and rubber inside the machine if there is no grease for it to attack.

That makes no sense.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2020, 10:50:15 pm »
Is 'food waste' in the sewer system a problem if a dishwasher has broken down much of that waste via the tablet?  I wonder how significant the initial rinse is, because as far as I know that is dumped straight into the drain, before the main hot wash with the tablet.  So there could be some benefit to having a small amount of detergent there as it would reduce the risk of clogging up pipes, etc.

The detergent is alkaline and it will ruin the metal and rubber inside the machine if there is no grease for it to attack.

That makes no sense.

Yes, especially given the machine is usually constructed from a stainless steel tub.  If it was of aluminium construction, then there would be a risk,  but dishwasher manufacturers aren't stupid and wouldn't build their machines from a material that is attacked by the tablet.

Your cutlery doesn't rust away when using a dishwasher tablet, so the machine itself will be fine with the tablet alone.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 10:52:42 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2020, 02:50:27 pm »
FWIW, the first generation of lower volume flush toilets in the US were aptly described by their intended function. i.e., full of sh!t.

2 out of 3 times all the ones where I used to live would not flush my "efforts" away and would block. I had to fill a large saucepan full of hot water (with some soap) and pour it in from a height of about 5 feet TWICE at least to clear the toilet. Since I was on a septic system, I couldn't keep using chemicals. And the shape of the bowl meant that plungers were useless.

*This* is a toilet...
Is it just me or this thread is starting to stink?  :P ;D :-DD

Happy new year everyone!
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Offline Alex EisenhutTopic starter

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2020, 06:51:30 pm »
Yeah, really, what *do* people use their dishwashers for? Even in my drunkest days I wouldn't have used the dishwasher for that...
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Offline tooki

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2021, 12:42:09 am »
Ummmm... what? Bosch dishwashers work like pretty much every European dishwasher: filter screens of various mesh sizes are placed ahead of the recirculating pump, such that debris is trapped and doesn’t clog the spray arms. Then, when draining, water back-flows across the screens, releasing the debris into the wastewater, where it is pumped out. Only massively large debris like stays behind. Nothing to do with siphons. (Stuff like paper jar labels will sometimes be caught on the outer mesh strainer.)

The fine mesh filter needs to be cleaned periodically, definitely far more often than yearly! I do it about every two months, since I live alone and don’t need to run it super frequently.

Not sure what the confusion is. Yes the filter needs to be cleaned often, most people in north america would hate a product designed in this way, which is why they tend to sell the "grinder" style more here.
The “confusion” was your rather incorrect description of how a Bosch dishwasher works.

And it’s not as though we are talking about major debris. Very little gets stuck in the filters. As helius and I have said, the filters are largely self-cleaning.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2021, 04:31:39 am »
That is not a hypothetical. The wiki article mentions a Swedish town that is encouraging people to get garbage disposals to improve the yield of their new biogas wastewater treatment plant. It being Sweden, I’m pretty sure they already have robust organic waste recovery.

And there’s no correlation between fatbergs and disposal waste, as far as I’ve been able to find. In my experience, most people only use them for vegetable waste, not for greasy meat scraps, since you can’t but bones into them anyway.

I occasionally put small bits of meat down mine, but it's just scraps, most of the meat gets eaten, and any larger waste such as stuff that spoils goes into the garbage can because it stinks. I suppose it's theoretically possible that excess food waste going into the sewer could be an issue but I don't see how it's any worse than toilet paper and it certainly isn't in the same class as those stupid wipes that people flush. There is an ample supply of bacteria in the sewer that is happy to feast on the ground up food scraps and the result is not much different than poop. The stuff that comes out of a garbage disposal is a pulverized slurry that has a tremendous amount of surface area for any organisms that want to consume it. Despite being called a "garbage" disposal it's not for disposing of garbage, it's for disposing of food scraps so you don't have to mess with a strainer or pick bits of gross food bits out of the drain after cleaning the dishes.

Apparently you can get toilets that have a garbage disposal like mechanism in them for installations where the toilet is located below the sewer line out of the building, I've never personally seen one though. Some RV and marine toilets have a similar mechanism to grind up the waste as it has to be pumped out of a holding tank at some point.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2021, 04:34:37 am »
Apparently you can get toilets that have a garbage disposal like mechanism in them for installations where the toilet is located below the sewer line out of the building

That's called a macerator. Actually, so is your garbage disposal.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2021, 07:00:16 am »
I don't think it is anything to do with the sewage system as such, more the style of plumbing that is common in the houses.

The diameter of the pipe in the kitchen and toilet is different. Kitchen sinks are often connected to much smaller diameter pipes that the ones in the toilets, so they clog much easier, especially if there is any sort of bend or poor gradient somewhere. And I can tell you, having to clear a clog somewhere deep in the wall because some idiot keeps pouring grease or food leftovers down the drain is not fun. That's why you will find removable filters in most kitchen sinks in Europe that are meant to catch that.

Most European houses don't have plumbing dimensioned for solid waste except in the bathrooms.

A garbage disposal acts like a centrifugal pump. If I don't run mine for a while eventually the p-trap will get clogged with crumbs and other various muck that settles out. Hit the switch on the disposal for a second or so and whoosh, the pipe is flushed out clean. I have never in my life had to disassemble a kitchen sink drain to clean out a clog. Our drain plumbing has cleanout fittings in a few strategic places in case something does get clogged, they look a bit like a Y coupling with a screw in cap on one side. Only time I've seen one used was when my little brother flushed a toy down the toilet and it got stuck in the pipe but it's nice to know that the access fittings are there.
 

Offline xmo

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Re: Ot: Dishwashers
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2021, 05:19:13 pm »
Aren't modern appliances awesome?  I have an LG dishwasher - inverter direct drive - nice and quiet - touch controls with a zillion choices.

It does a great job of getting the dishes clean too. That is, provided that you pick the longest, heavy cleaning cycle and the water pre-heat.  Oh, and as long as you wash everything thoroughly in the sink before you put it in the dishwasher.  Then most of your stuff comes out clean.

The good news is you get re-acquainted with your stuff as you closely inspect each item as you unload the machine.

Not like my old Kitchenaid.  Load it, add detergent, hit start.  Wait till done, unload.  Boring.
 


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