OT Domestic UAVs... Hobby, Crime stopping, and Peeping toms...

[smashedProton]

The title says it all.  I would like a debate on the ethics of civilian UAVs.  The current definition of a "drone" is a remote controlled vehicle with a camera mounted of any kind on top.  The proposed law in Oregon state (right next to where I live)  will make my hobby illegal.  For flying a "drone" the punishment is greater than that for drunk driving and stealing greater than 50 dollars.

Does anybody think that this law is as ridiculous as I think?  I believe that the solution is education rather than outright ban.  Would you ban chemistry sets if there is a meth problem (texas)?  Would you ban electronics labs if there is a bomb problem?  It pisses me off that idiots would vote for laws that don't directly affect them. 

[houdini]

Experience says that politicians will ban all of those things.

[smashedProton]

Tell them to ban pressure cookers too.  People can make bombs from them.

[houdini]

If they think they can get votes from the general ignorant people then they will do it.  No matter how stupid it is.

[Fsck]

3D printers are probably going to be the next obvious item.

[Psi]

The current definition of a "drone" is a remote controlled vehicle with a camera mounted of any kind on top.

Is that the actual definition?
Solution seems pretty simple, just mount the camera on the bottom. 

Another option is to check the law regarding planes towing planes.
It maybe possible to get around the law by "towing" a platform with the camera mounted on that. This way there's no plane which is both radio-controlled and contains a camera.


Seriously though, your best bet is to get lots of FPV flyers in your area to sign something and officially give it to your local government body. Even better if it's from a model club or something.
As well as everyone's signature, put forward in the document lots of solutions to the problem which benefit everyone and still allow FPV flying.
Getting radio/tv news coverage will also help.

[Joules]

  It pisses me off that idiots would vote for laws that don't directly affect them.

And there lies the problem, we give these idiots every chance at survival and the ability to procreate.  Darwinism is broken.

[N2IXK]

This is going to impact my hobby of High Power model rocketry, as well. Video cameras are popular payloads for model rockets once you get into stuff larger than the little Estes cardboard rockets.

Of course, government over-regulation is nothing new to us. We had to sue the ATF when their post-9/11 regulations effectively banned most hobbyists from buying propellant (we eventually won after 9 years in court), and now after the Boston events, they are trying to come after the gunpowder we use for staging and parachute recovery systems.

[Rufus]

Dunno why Americans are worried about it. I thought most of the helicopters in America already have bullet holes.

I don't think drones causing anything more than a minor invasion of privacy are going to last long.

[AlfBaz]

American politics is an absolute joke (and the rest of us aren't far behind). A couple of wankers kill 3 people and the whole world goes into lock down. A handful of other fuckwits grab fire arms and kill dozens of men women and children and the whole country gets outraged because their freedom to bare arms is being violated

[kfitch42]

It pisses me off that idiots would vote for laws that don't directly affect them.

So the key is to get the politicians to see how drones are helpful for them ... then again they might just put an exception in the law for politicians.

[lemmegraphdat]

Next thing they might have is a spray on coating that is a bunch of tiny electric eyeballs. Or just let it waft into a room. Dust particles in sunbeams.

[4to20Milliamps]

Consider how long it took them to catch the unabomber, then how long it took them to catch the last jerk offs.

Cameras are everywhere whether you like it or not, if you don't like it smash your cell phone, turn off your computer, and hide in a hole.

I don't commit crimes, I'm not a murderer, and I know I'm probably on a list somewhere for something but I really don't care.

[SeanB]

But you are guilty of tax evasion, just by being in the USA, with a 9000 page tax code that is not understandable, but which ignorance of is no defence. Not even the lawyers, judges or prosecutors are going to be able to understand and comply with it. But you will be prosecutable under it. Paid your tax on internet purchases, even 1c is illegal underdeclaration.

[4to20Milliamps]

But you are guilty of tax evasion, just by being in the USA, with a 9000 page tax code that is not understandable, but which ignorance of is no defence. Not even the lawyers, judges or prosecutors are going to be able to understand and comply with it. But you will be prosecutable under it. Paid your tax on internet purchases, even 1c is illegal underdeclaration.

I'm not too worried about it, when I'm posting from my prison cell you're welcome to tell me "I told you so" 

[ecat]

But you are guilty of tax evasion, just by being in the USA, with a 9000 page tax code that is not understandable, but which ignorance of is no defence. Not even the lawyers, judges or prosecutors are going to be able to understand and comply with it. But you will be prosecutable under it. Paid your tax on internet purchases, even 1c is illegal underdeclaration.

I'm not too worried about it, when I'm posting from my prison cell you're welcome to tell me "I told you so" 

I'll send you a proper written note and deliver it by quad copter Muhahahaha

[4to20Milliamps]

Only if your quadcopter can get through my hydrogen filled balloons with extra long strings defense system. 

[staxquad]

Consider how long it took them to catch the unabomber, then how long it took them to catch the last jerk offs.

Cameras are everywhere whether you like it or not, if you don't like it smash your cell phone, turn off your computer, and hide in a hole.

I don't commit crimes, I'm not a murderer, and I know I'm probably on a list somewhere for something but I really don't care.

Why wouldn't the latest bombers be just like all the previous, enticed, supplied by the FBI to create terror and fear so that you would welcome a POLICE STATE (and you do, you praise domestic surveillance, cameras, spies already).  Only this time, they weren't stopped.

You only know what they want you to know, and that ain't the truth.

in the least, the FBI interviewed the older brother, been following him for 5 years.  guess they thought he was capable

the Unibomber was unknown to the FBI

[4to20Milliamps]

Do you own a cell phone?

Then "they" know where you are....right this very second.

Why don't you shut it off?

I don't because I don't care what they see because I don't commit any crimes, and if where I live does become a police state....well then good luck to them and their toy helicopters because there are still a few people around that won't stand for it .

And I can guarantee you that right now if were to be thrown in prison for making the above comment on the internet, freely exercising my right to freedom of speech....not a single "conspiracy theorist" would protest against it, they would all let me rot in prison.

[Mechatrommer]

keep arguing about ethics, from the lowest ranking to the highest order. it'll be fun watching.

[AlfBaz]

... freely exercising my right to freedom of speech....

I'm curious, of all the intrinsic human rights you value freedom of speech but not the right to privacy. Shouldn't all human rights have an equal footing? You really can not have one without the other

[BravoV]

Does anybody think that this law is as ridiculous as I think? 

Who said its all about law, right, drone and etc ?

Its all about the money, the contract for the new tools to detect and hunt down the drone, new department, new task force, new budget etc, sounds familiar ? 

[Marco]

The title says it all.  I would like a debate on the ethics of civilian UAVs.

It depends on altitude and size IMO. If a property owner can easily see it then it shouldn't be above his property without his permission.

[kfitch42]

It depends on altitude and size IMO. If a property owner can easily see it then it shouldn't be above his property without his permission.

So, if I have a blind neighbor...

[Marco]

Feel free, but keep the noise down.

[Alana]

Law is like wooden fence. Tiger will jump over it, snake will squeeze under but cattle will stay where it was put.
In my opinion this will be just another dead law, law that is somewhere in books but that is too hard to enforce or too easy to brake without punishment.

And for ethics... In my opinion its exactly like with any video/photo camera.
You keep pictures to yourself - its OK. You want to publish them its worth to think of consequences for people that are on those pictures. For example - i have few railway pictures and movies i know i should not publish [or if i want to publish them i need to edit out some things] because i do not want railway workers that allowed me to make those to get in trouble. This is ethics and things like that should be considered. Rest - just politics.
BTW have you ever wondered why word politics consist of 2 parts? poli - greek for many, ticks - nasty bloodsucking creatures. Get it?

[ecat]

Law is like wooden fence. Tiger will jump over it, snake will squeeze under but cattle will stay where it was put.

Oh my. That analogy is so beautiful it hurts.

In other news...
Legislation: It's the governments way saying education has failed and it does not trust the populous.

[AlfBaz]

Law is like wooden fence. Tiger will jump over it, snake will squeeze under but cattle will stay where it was put.

Legislation: It's the governments way saying education has failed and it does not trust the populous.

I'm getting my mother to darn those onto a canvas and hang them over the fire place 

[lemmegraphdat]

There is no blanket right to privacy.

[4to20Milliamps]

... freely exercising my right to freedom of speech....

I'm curious, of all the intrinsic human rights you value freedom of speech but not the right to privacy. Shouldn't all human rights have an equal footing? You really can not have one without the other

Privacy? if these creeps want to have a peak at my junk they will just feel inadequate. 

The first step to being free is to "own it" the second you let some bully think he can steal your lunch money you're toast.

I don't fear any Government, and neither should anyone else.

Repeat after me: " I refuse to live in fear and no one can control me"

Now step outside and enjoy the free air, and be happy that NO ONE can take it away from you......unless we let them.