OT: RSI due to my mouse

[IanB]

Good! The benefit of the trackball is: you can relax the whole arm. Use it exclusive for some days and then you will know if it helps or not.

With a mouse, even if you reduce the movement with a higher resolution, you have muscle contraction in your arm up to your shoulder.

This part I don't understand. When I operate a mouse I have almost exactly the same muscle movements as when I operate a trackball. My arm is perfectly relaxed, my wrist is resting on the mouse mat and my fingers move the mouse. The only difference I can tell is that the trackball rotates under my fingers whereas the mouse slides under my fingers. My arm is equally relaxed either way.

[GreyWoolfe]

The Logitech M570 wouldn't work for me.  I have arthritis in both thumbs and that much moving my thumb hurts.  I have my resolution as high as it can go and have the keyboard/mouse tray adjusted to just the right position that I can mouse all day without any problems.  I do rest my arm on the arm of my chair but the mouse tray is in line with the chair arm so the pressure is even across the arm.  I also find that the laser mice are easier to use than the ball mice, at least for me.

Tom, NW0LF

[hammy]

This part I don't understand. When I operate a mouse I have almost exactly the same muscle movements as when I operate a trackball. My arm is perfectly relaxed ...

ok. Interesting. When I use a mouse I never have a relaxed arm. When I move the mouse I always move my arm also a little bit. This means I use muscles in my arm. I also have some muscle contraction in my shoulder.

Anyway, it seams we all have some different habits to use a mouse. 

[elliot42]

I had (self diagnosed) RSI in my wrist a few years ago from work. I tended to move my hand side to side a lot without moving my arm while using the mouse. I got a Logitech Trackman Marble and haven't had a problem since. I use my index and middle finger to move the trackball and my wrist and arms stay straight and relaxed. I also got myself a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 that's similarly great, it keeps my wrists raised and in a more natural position - straight and relaxed.

My dad has tendonitis in his wrist and we got him one of those 3M vertical joystick-like mice a few years ago for use at work; I think he's been pretty happy with it.

And, like others have said, I use my keyboard at work for as much as possible. I use either Vim or Netbeans with a Vim keybindings plugin for most of my editing (I'm a software programmer) and avoid the mouse where I can.

[nanofrog]

CTS diagnosed in both hands after nerve conduction testing. Issues with both keyboards & mice. Needed surgery then, but due to my age at the time, and the chances of paralysis at my current age (surgery needing to be repeated ~5 years or so), the surgeon recommended skipping it and gave me a list of what to get/use to improve matters as well as different habits. Scared the crap out of me of course, as I'd already experienced paralysis at this point (wasn't fun; R wrist down & entire L arm), so I heeded the surgeon's warning.

Switched to ergonomic keyboard, chair (very adjustable arm rests that extend & swivel to support my forearms to the table), adjustable height table, and switched to a trackball. Still have issues from time to time, but frequent breaks do help a lot to keep flare ups to a minimum of occurrences. Have managed to avoid surgery for 22 years so far this way.

[IanB]

One thing I notice about my use of a mouse is extensive use of the scroll wheel. The finger tip movement is similar to using a trackball and avoids the need to make extensive arm movements to scroll a page up and down with the scroll bar.

[David_AVD]

My dad has tendonitis in his wrist and we got him one of those 3M vertical joystick-like mice a few years ago for use at work; I think he's been pretty happy with it.

I tried one of those a couple of years ago, but just couldn't get used to it.   

[JohnnyGringo]

Switched to ergonomic keyboard, chair (very adjustable arm rests that extend & swivel to support my forearms to the table), ....

+1 for the split keyboards
 
 I've seen several studies now that indicate that reclining is the best posture for sitting for long periods of time.  I use a elevated Lazy-Boy with the ergonomic keyboard in my lap.  Might be a little hard to do when at the bench.

Sitting up straight is not the best position for office workers, a study has suggested.

Scottish and Canadian researchers used a new form of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to show it places an unnecessary strain on your back.

They told the Radiological Society of North America that the best position in which to sit at your desk is leaning back, at about 135 degrees.

I.e. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6187080.stm

[JohnnyGringo]

My dad has tendonitis in his wrist and we got him one of those 3M vertical joystick-like mice a few years ago for use at work; I think he's been pretty happy with it.

I tried one of those a couple of years ago, but just couldn't get used to it.   

How does it work? Do you have to physically pick it up and move it? Or just flex the handle? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergonomics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/

[David_AVD]

My dad has tendonitis in his wrist and we got him one of those 3M vertical joystick-like mice a few years ago for use at work; I think he's been pretty happy with it.

I tried one of those a couple of years ago, but just couldn't get used to it.   

How does it work? Do you have to physically pick it up and move it? Or just flex the handle? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ergonomics/home/products/ergonomicmouse/

It didn't operate like a joystick.  Pretty much a mouse with a different grip position.

[JohnnyGringo]

It didn't operate like a joystick.  Pretty much a mouse with a different grip position.

Seems like it will still require flexing your wrist (laterally).

[fcb]

I know someone who has a real problem with mice, he has tried pretty much everything on the market.  He seems to have stuck with the evoluent vertical mouse for well over a year now, so I guess he likes it.

Edit. He also bought & tested the 3M vertical ergonomic mouse - I reckoned he looked like something from a fat-boy slim video using it:

[tealsuki]

I've seen several studies now that indicate that reclining is the best posture for sitting for long periods of time.  I use a elevated Lazy-Boy with the ergonomic keyboard in my lap.  Might be a little hard to do when at the bench.

I moved my computer to my little coffee table last year because my office chair broke and I decided to use first a lounge chair and then ultimately my couch instead. Best decision I've ever made, I don't get strain in my arms anymore, and with wireless keyboard and mouse, any position where my arm is natural (including a full on sprawl-out) I can use my mouse comfortably. Keyboard is certainly a bit awkward though.

Unfortunately, the office bound folk can't exactly haul a lounging chair to work, but at least I hope we can all practice good computer usage at home.

PS, is there anyone here still using a ball mouse?

[EEVblog]

Just laid out my new uCurrent PCB with the trackball. Not as efficient as the mouse yet, but pretty close. 

[IanB]

I've seen several studies now that indicate that reclining is the best posture for sitting for long periods of time.

Possibly, possibly.

I think perhaps it is better to keep your core trunk muscles well toned, which means balancing rather than reclining. For instance, sitting on a yoga ball with your legs beneath you for balance rather than stretched out in front.

The trouble with a "supportive" chair is that your muscles switch off and your body goes into a relaxed mode. It's OK to do that at night while you are sleeping, but if you do it during the day as well you will lose the ability to support your weight and it will put more strain on your joints and ligaments.

I think Dave works standing up, which is sensible. It keeps his back straight and his muscles active.

[NiHaoMike]

I use a wrist rest pad and adjust the chair to leave just enough legroom (or as high as it goes). If the chair is a fancy one that tilts, I adjust it so that the front of the seat is lower than the back.

[mrflibble]

I also find that the laser mice are easier to use than the ball mice, at least for me.

Ditto, I have a Logitech G9x Laser here. Set to the second to highest speed (very small wrist movements required) works well for desktop work.

[David_AVD]

I also find that the laser mice are easier to use than the ball mice, at least for me.

You can actually buy a mouse with ball these days?  I haven't seen one in years.

Using a mouse that's a good fit for you hand size can help too.

[amyk]

After looking up "vertical mouse" (I had imagined this was a mouse that you used in the vertical plane, against a wall ) I can't say I'd want to use one -- I guess it's very dependent on what you're comfortable with, which people vary on. For me, the natural position when I'm resting my hand on the desk is with the palm down; a vertical mouse seems more comfortable to someone who rests his hands with their palms facing sideways.

[GK]

I think Dave just needs to.........

[ciccio]

I was affected with serious Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, and 10 years ago I was treated surgically at the right wrist.
Now sometimes I feel some pain in my right arm, but it is sufficient to held the arm in an upright position to stop the pain in less than one minute.
This reduces blood pressure in the carpal tunnel, and the movement was useful even before surgery.

At those times I tested every mouse, trackball and tablet+pen combination  I could find, and opted for a Logitech mouse that is out of catalog by almost 10 years: a big, triangular one, made in two versions (one for right and one for left-handed users).

I'm ambidextrous (or better, I was left--handed when I was a child, was writing with the left-hand but had to learn writing again with my right hand at the elementary school: in 1956 that was the rule, here),  but I feel very uncomfortable using a mouse with my left hand.

I think Dave should see a doctor: self diagnoses need a professional confirmation better with some instrumental tests.
Best regards

[GK]

How did we get from "I've gotten pain my my forearm and elbow recently" to carpal tunnel syndrome?  Maybe it's a tumor!

[JohnnyGringo]

Not to want to labour the point, if you do have CTS then no amount of tools, techniques or devices designed to relieve muscle strains will help. CTS is a nerve injury, and it will not cure itself. It is easily diagnosed and is a simple surgical procedure. I watched the surgeon doing mine and it is done in 5 min. Two 1cm incisions that are barely noticeable now.

Well, actually it's the swelling in the "tunnel" that encloses the nerve which causes the pain.  It can lead to nerve damage if you don't abate the source of the swelling.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/carpal-tunnel-syndrome/DS00326/DSECTION=causes

In general, anything that crowds, irritates or compresses the median nerve in the carpal tunnel space can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome. For example, a wrist fracture can narrow the carpal tunnel and irritate the nerve, as can the swelling and inflammation resulting from rheumatoid arthritis.

[John Coloccia]

How did we get from "I've gotten pain my my forearm and elbow recently" to carpal tunnel syndrome?  Maybe it's a tumor!

Iz nat ah tuumooor!

[keithu]

I highly recommend trying a graphics tablet with a pen stylus. Something like the smaller wacom models with an active area about the size of a postcard is fine and personally I wouldn't go any larger unless you would actually use it for digitizing drawings or with a custom menu system.

The hand position is exactly the same as using a normal pen and is less strenuous than using a mouse as the wrist isn't rotated out of its natural position. It's also more precise for CAD-type applications and image editing. I used to do tech support for a CAD office using lots of different pointing devices and for PCB layout I would definitely want to use a graphics tablet and pen.