Author Topic: OT: The religion thead...  (Read 315643 times)

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Offline digsys

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #750 on: June 05, 2012, 12:37:39 am »
Quote
  .... is the fight against the 95% of the world who blindly believe something like a sheeple...
Couldn't have said it any better.
The scary part is the US presidential elections (pre) going on right now.
Some of the fanatic religous comments being made by some of the contenders .... EEEEEK
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #751 on: June 05, 2012, 12:41:45 am »
us Christians don't evangelise over nothing! If he wasn't real, how empty, meaningless and boring would it be

And there everyone, in a nutshell, is what makes the religious believe.
Unfortunately, simply believing, or having faith in something, does not make it true.
And the more that society and our scientific knowledge marches on, the more foolish such belief seems.
The evidence has spoken, and your god almost certainly does not exist.

Dave.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #752 on: June 05, 2012, 12:43:34 am »
It's not about me - you may insult me all you wish. Deny God if you desire to, but aiming the insults at me is silly, because I care for you, and words can never hurt me or change me, as I have said many times over, and doubtless will again, LOL!

Like you said, nothing will change you. I have accepted that. You are closed to anything that is even absolute proof that something you now believe, is wrong. I get it! You cannot be convinced of anything that you believe now is wrong. Nothing, ever, for eternity......

SO now by your own admission you are here to promote your beliefs and not discuss anything, just to troll, as I predicted and you denied so many posts ago. So not only do you have a closed mind, you also believe it is right to promote your beliefs by lying? So which of your lies you expect you chosen audience to believe?
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #753 on: June 05, 2012, 12:59:34 am »
Sorry if I am putting intentions or words in your mouth Dave, but I think we are on the same page.

Not at all, you are spot on, except for the 5% part I suspect. I think the world on a whole is becoming much more secular and non-believing than people think. But yes, it's an uphill slog.
Here in Australia at least, the figure is around the 50% mark of people who either don't believe (30+%), or simply call themselves "spiritual". BTW, I call those "spiritual" people a win, because they are usually ones who see through the organised religious, and can smell the BS. But they still like the airy fairy notion of their being "something" (usually not a god), so as an atheist I consider them genuinely harmless.
Of the remaining half who consider themselves religious in some way, over 40% don't actively practice it in any way. Practically agnostic, in my view. Almost all of these 40% I expect to eventually come across to admitting agnosticism as society marches on.

And I think those stats are confirmed by my own observations, even living right in the heart of the "bible belt" here in Sydney. I suspect they are actually rather conservatively biased toward the religious.

Dave.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 01:02:52 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #754 on: June 05, 2012, 01:15:00 am »
[...]
2 Thessalonians 2:
[...]
Please, my dear EEVBlog fellow, stop quoting what others have said or written.

Though I can only speak for myself, I believe that everyone over here would rather prefer you to be telling us what YOUR viewpoints are and WHY (just as I did with the 72 promised virgins, the Holy Communion and the Circumcision, for example), than rehashing what some ancient heavily doctored epistles some ancient murderers have written to some ancient exiled minorities.

Explaining myself:

- Ancient heavily doctored epistles: All the Councils of Christian bishops and Holy Synods were actually dogfights between the heads of the Christian Church, while trying to revise the "Holy Scriptures" in a way that they do not disagree with the official dogma, and to establish the Christianity holly books by choosing which of them were acceptable to be preached and which were not. If you have heard of the Biblical apocrypha, they were the rejected books that should not be revealed to the public because their contents were not aligned to the Dogma or because they contained information that should be concealed. An example of concealed information is everything about the Essenes and the extra-biblical life of Jesus that the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed.

- Ancient exiled minorities: The Corinthians, Thessalonians, Ephesians, etc. that the Apostles were addressing to were NOT the native citizens of these Hellenic cities but the Jewish minorities living there, after they had fled Judea (since the third century BCE) and settled at the Mediterranean nations that gave them shelter. For example, when Paul the Apostle was given a podium in Pnyx, Athens, to speak to the Athenian Hellenes, they all laughed at him when he begun telling them about the promised life after death his new religion was preaching; and he did never attempt to address the Hellenes again, after that unfortunate incident...

- Ancient murderers: A brutal murderer, under the command of the ruthless Pharisees, was Saul of Tarsus, aka Paul the Apostle. Saul was a fanatic member of the Pharisees and a brutal murderer who was protected not only by the Pharisees but by the Romans as well, since the Pharisees were using him to hunt down and murder their (Jewish) opponents, and protected this valuable asset they had by paying generously the Romans to protect him. Not to mention that there are numerous respectable scholars who have associated Saul to the burning of Rome. In a few words, Saul never ceased to be the (more than willing) hired knife of the Pharisees, who used him later to spread the new religion through the Jewish diaspora.

That newly-found religion should be called Paulism or Saulism instead of Christianity, since more than half of its scriptures are attributed to Saul, whose masters never ceased to be the ruthless and manipulating Pharisees.


-George
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #755 on: June 05, 2012, 01:17:36 am »
We'll just have to agree that you think I am closed minded, whilst you're obviously closed minded yourself, to the existence of God

Rubbish.
Athiests like myself and lightages have looked at the evidence (and lack of it on the flip side), and have used logic and reason to come to the conclusion that god almost certainly does not exist, especially so the one that you subscribe to.
I do not want to put words into Lightages mouth, but I'm pretty sure, like most atheists, if you presented sufficient real evidence then we would change our mind and believe too. That is the absolute opposite to close mindedness.

Now answer this question please. Yes or no only. Do you think there is a chance that you could be wrong and god does no actually exist?

Dave.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #756 on: June 05, 2012, 01:26:15 am »
In the second decade of the 21st century, with unparalleled access to information and technology, issues such as evolution, power of prayer and miracles should have been settled by now just as facts about gravity, the solar system and a "round earth" are pretty much accepted.

They are settled.
But as with everything, unfortunately there will always be people who will never admit they were wrong, or want to cling on to the hope that it's still true. And I can understand that, it must be a powerful feeling to overcome.
I don't think I can have any more respect for someone, than those who were deeply bogged down in religious dogma, and then used reason and evidence to figure out that they were wrong, and then come out and admit it. A true pinnacle of human reason and advancement of society.

Dave.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #757 on: June 05, 2012, 01:44:05 am »
If there was any chance that God didn't exist, that would cause God to be a liar, and since he cannot lie, being the author of truth, NO.

Well, looky here at this logic.  :o
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #758 on: June 05, 2012, 01:47:46 am »
Dave, when we meet in heaven, with all hope, I'll hug ya and say "SEE! told you so!" :-)

How many arguments can be won with promises of evidence after you are dead?

The 'theory' of religions can't be disproved and that is by design. Religions are the product of natural selection like everything else.

Any religion which said god will do X tomorrow would loose believers when X didn't happen. That is why religions only claim their god will do something vague or at some undefined future time and especially after death by which time your belief is irrelevant to the survival of the religion.

iawhoiam is here preaching to anyone who will listen because that is what his religion has taught or induces him to do. That is also by design. A religion which doesn't seek to create new believers will not survive.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #759 on: June 05, 2012, 01:49:26 am »
If there was any chance that God didn't exist, that would cause God to be a liar, and since he cannot lie, being the author of truth, NO.

Well, looky here at this logic.  :o

I am an atheist, he is alogical.

Maybe I can try to be clever:
He is circumspect in that he is circumnavigating the circumstance in which he find himself encircled. Nah, not even clever, just lame......
----------------------------------------------

Dave, you are correct, I am 100% sure that you and I are on the same page.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #760 on: June 05, 2012, 01:53:16 am »
Tired and tiring, nice combo.

God loves you like heroin loves a junky.

I guess I am edging on being offensive, but I believe the addiction is the same....
 

Online IanB

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #761 on: June 05, 2012, 01:57:46 am »
If there was any chance that God didn't exist, that would cause God to be a liar, and since he cannot lie, being the author of truth, NO.

Suppose God lied, when he told you "I cannot lie"?
 

Online IanB

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #762 on: June 05, 2012, 02:02:05 am »
If there was any chance that God didn't exist, that would cause God to be a liar, and since he cannot lie, being the author of truth, NO. I take this on faith, as blind as you may think it, but that faith has substantial evidence - the evidence is our existence, and if I even needed more, there is PLENTY all around you - you're just robbed off it, as your earthly wisdom would have you blinded to everything around you which shouts "I AM HERE". You cannot know ultimate truth, as you have no yardstick against which to make such assumptions. Note: I am not saying you are a bad person, I am saying without God, you cannot comprehend what truth really means - it just is not possible, as you have no absolutes by which to measure anything.

Your volt meter says 1v for 1v today, but you only know this BECAUSE of past experience - because today is the same as yesterday, BUT you can have no guarantees that it will remain so and why our world is constant and predictable, because you reject God, and so your belief system is wholly based upon past experience and that of others, but that is as foolish a notion so as to say that, because it rained today, it will rain tomorrow - you have no guarantee of it, but because it may have rained for three years, you don't question it (man, that would be a bummer - three years of rain!).

God is constant, never changing, and he never goes back upon his word. So, we know God made us promises, and because he cannot lie, we KNOW that he will never leave us, and we know that we are based on a solid foundation of truth, ergo all worldly things... physics, natural laws, are constants, and we can rely on this, as God is a God of peace, stability, love... not the author of confusion and uncertainty - Satan.

Sorry, you asked me a simple question, but the truth is that truth is something unknowable without God, and so, I am happy I know what I know, and that his statutes remain for all time. He cannot lie, and what would it benefit him to do so? Lies are of man, because of pride, and our unwillingness to appear weak or fallible, and so we lie - the very fault in us that proves WE ARE weak and fallible, ironically, but God is not, which is why I take what he says at face value, and so should we all. I need not argue "evidence", as you already have it all, but are blind to it.

You really need to take some philosophy classes, because you are totally out of your depth here. I am not a philosopher by any means, but even I can tell your words are random gibberish. Please, if you want to preach, at least get your pastor or church elders to put you on the right track.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #763 on: June 05, 2012, 02:05:04 am »
If there was any chance that God didn't exist, that would cause God to be a liar, ...

Let's replace God with unicorn and we have:
If there was any chance that unicorn didn't exist, that would cause unicorn to be a liar[.]

Damn, you unicorn. Why did you lied to me! :'(
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #764 on: June 05, 2012, 02:10:13 am »
You really need to take some philosophy classes, because you are totally out of your depth here. I am not a philosopher by any means, but even I can tell your words are random gibberish.

Yep, I'm convinced he's just an automated response bot, and a poorly programmed one at that. 1970's AI technology at best.

Dave.
 

Offline Hugoneus

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #765 on: June 05, 2012, 03:25:35 am »
Dave,

I am afraid you are being trolled. In my humble opinion, it is best to let this one go. You cannot defeat irrationality with rationality. The unreasonable are immune to reason.

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #766 on: June 05, 2012, 03:26:54 am »
Well I watched the forst part of that video, and it was 40 minutes of nonsense woowoo circular argument. Another waste of time. Always the same arguments, the same waving around of hands and assumptions of facts not in evidence. I wonder how many of the videos I have posted iamwhoiam has watched? Oh yes, it doesn't matter because he has stated that nothing will change his mind, never, for eternity.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #767 on: June 05, 2012, 03:31:32 am »
Dave,

I am afraid you are being trolled. In my humble opinion, it is best to let this one go. You cannot defeat irrationality with rationality. The unreasonable are immune to reason.

Dave and I both are fully aware of this rather un-inventive and transparent troll. It matters not. The more he carries on the worse his position looks. He is digging his own grave so to speak. I have had some great debates with some real good arguers on this subject, but alas they were being "the devil's advocate". They actually were atheists trying to argue the other side as an exercise.

Anybody who keeps spouting the same shit over and over and actually brings no answers to questions posed to him is an obvious troll pushing our buttons. Fortunately he is helping our case with his ruminations.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #768 on: June 05, 2012, 03:48:33 am »
Dave should close this thread and pin it up. Victor has already been decided.
 

Offline PeteInTexas

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #769 on: June 05, 2012, 04:00:17 am »
PeteInTexas, proofs is all around you. Look and link them together.

Is it really that easy...
 

Offline PeteInTexas

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #770 on: June 05, 2012, 04:06:11 am »

LOL! You can accept this for a hard science like biology but you can't accept that faith in God is reasonably placed.  Methinks you are going weebly-woobly on your arguments.


"Thing we have evidence for" is considerably more reasonable than "some invisible magic dude did it". Especially when all you're talking about is a minor specific case of a already established larger theory.

Reasonable if "air of reality" is good enough for rigorous scientific work.
 

Offline PeteInTexas

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #771 on: June 05, 2012, 04:11:08 am »
Like I said the more humans get to know about their natural world the less they will need faith in God (but only asymptotically).  It is very doubtful that the [various?] theories of evolution has significantly advanced knowledge to the point God can be outright ruled out.  For one, it will be at least another beeeelion years before any experimental result by evolutionary biologist would bear definitive data.  Then its got to be peer reviewed...

I'm sorry Pete, but the only thing any god could possibly had a hand in evolution is to start the whole process.

I can take this as concession.  You hear that everybody, Dave thinks its possible and that's good enough for me.

Quote
There is no evidence of any hand of god intervening, none.

If there is room for reasonable doubt in the scientific evidence, then there is room for faith in God.  This all I'm saying.  BTW, this is probably why your smart buddies are religious.  They are humble enough to recognize the limitations of scientific understanding.  They are not deluded.  They appreciate the smallness of their "knowledge" in the grand scheme of things.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 04:19:53 am by PeteInTexas »
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #772 on: June 05, 2012, 04:49:17 am »

LOL! You can accept this for a hard science like biology but you can't accept that faith in God is reasonably placed.  Methinks you are going weebly-woobly on your arguments.


"Thing we have evidence for" is considerably more reasonable than "some invisible magic dude did it". Especially when all you're talking about is a minor specific case of a already established larger theory.

Reasonable if "air of reality" is good enough for rigorous scientific work.

A theory with only "air of reality" is good enough and can be extremely valuable especially in the absence of any useful alternate theory. When it comes to making decisions requiring a prediction of what will happen in the future a theory with just a whiff of reality is better than nothing.

If you understood science you would know there are no proven theories only theories which have yet to be dis-proven.

God and evolution are theories which have yet to be dis-proven. Evolution has been well tested and we can have some confidence using it to predict the future. God theory has barely been tested, and the theory being what happens in the future depends on what God feels like with the lack of any evidence that we can influence what God feels like means it can never be tested. A 'whatever God feels like' theory is completely useless for predicting the future so it is not worth testing, it isn't worth considering.

I have no idea why people (who bother to think about it) believe in God(s) or even if they do why they care. Do they really think they can influence what God(s) will do, do they really think they are 'investing' for an afterlife? Perhaps some just like having their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friends.
 

Offline Wartex

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #773 on: June 05, 2012, 04:54:29 am »
@ Kremmen

We are not that far apart on many things.  Religions are not imune to the effects of human nature and large organization.
The only rules/guidance I need and attempt to follow is in the book.

Regards, robrenz

 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #774 on: June 05, 2012, 05:40:33 am »
If there is room for reasonable doubt in the scientific evidence, then there is room for faith in God.

Any scientist will accept the evidence and go where it takes him. If there is evidence that God exists and it is the best explanation then it is accepted as the current working theory. If there is evidence that something else is at play and has more evidence, then that becomes the best working theory.

Now if someone hands you a book that says something exists and there is no other evidence to point to the existence of the thing championed in the book, then it is only a book. For anyone to constantly need to disprove things, anything that can be imagined, is a waste of time. Nobody will ask you to disprove flying pigs. Why ask anyone else to disprove your flying pig?

If someone gives me compelling evidence that God exists or a supreme being exists other than to just say "look around", then I will of course as a scientist go with the best working theory. Give me hand waving and legends about how people saw things 2000 years ago with their limited knowledge and I will have to pass on that as being pure myth and woowoo.

 


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