Author Topic: OT: The religion thead...  (Read 315657 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #250 on: May 20, 2012, 06:21:29 am »
One more thing: I don't care if you're atheist, agnostic, antitheistic, or religous.  Criticizing someones religious beliefs comes across as very immature.

No it's not, it's the most grown up thing you can possibly do - to question things, and seek the truth.
Religious people claim some absolutely bat-shit crazy things, and we simply call them on it and ask them to provide evidence to back up their claims.
Why should religion be off limit to criticism? That's the way it's been in society for a long time now and it need to stop.

Once again, I won't criticise your belief in anything, if you keep it to yourself, but when it invades my life and the advancement of society in general, that's when you'll get called out on it.

Dave.
 

Offline siliconmix

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #251 on: May 20, 2012, 06:36:43 am »
my home
christmas morning 2011
7.45 am
knock on the door.
i answer.
the jehovah :  " you dont have to live this way"
me : "what " ?
the jehovah : " you dont have to celebrate jesus's birthday" ?
me : " piss off "
the jehovah : " oooh the devil's looking over your shoulder "
me : " f**k off "
the jehovah : " you've so much anger and bitterness"
me :"i'm not going to tell you again"
the jehovah puts her foot in the door jam as i begin to close the door.
the jehovah :" a lot of people feel anger when they turn away from god"
me "i've never belived in god"
i slam door.the jehovah moves foot.
this is the mentality of the religous mind .if you dont believe .there must be  something wrong with you .
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #252 on: May 20, 2012, 07:03:12 am »

Quote
If religious zealots were doing that, it would be considered completely unacceptable.

They do it every day, in spades.

Dave.

When I was 11 years old I had already decided that this God thing didn't make any sense, so I excluded myself from anything that was connected to the delusion.  In my childhood it was the practice of the PUBLIC schools to recite the lords prayer and sing "God Save Our Queen" every morning. I just stopped doing that part of the morning ritual and got away with it as one voice missing from twenty didn't get noticed.

I then started my next grade and the school had just acquired a new teacher. Her way of teaching was a little different than I had experienced before. Each day she expected each student to stand up at the front of the class and recite a verse from the bible. When it came to my turn, I stood up and told her that I was not going to do it as I was an atheist. She was very flustered by the audacity of a mere child standing up for his own rights and she quickly asked the next on the list to do the deed. I sat down happy and confident that I had done the right thing and had done nothing offensive.

A few days rolled around and my turn came up again. This time I expected to be skipped without any trouble. Well I was wrong. She asked me to step up and take my turn and I stood up to remind her that I was not going to do something that was not my belief. She then very loudly and aggressively told me that I was being silly and that she had talked to my mother. She told me that my mother had told her that I was to do what I was told and that my atheism was wrong. Well you can imagine that I was caught completely off guard and embarrassed. I felt like I had no choice but to do what I was told at that point and blundered my way through some passage, of which I have no memory.

When I got back home that afternoon I went straight to where my mother was and started yelling at her like a maniac. She had this wide eyed bewildered look on her face and it took her a few minutes to get me to stop yelling and explain what I was talking about. When  she learned what had transpired she became very angry and let me know that she had never talked to this teacher and the teacher was just plain lying. I was given permission to do whatever I wanted when I returned the next day in class to refute the teacher.

The next day the teacher asked for the next person on the list to stand up and do their recital. I stood up and asked that I may be able to take their place. The teacher looked quite pleased with herself that she had converted me to her way. I got to the front of the class and instead of reciting her crap, I recounted what had happened the previous day when I talked with my mother. In a nut shell I told the whole class that the teacher had lied about talking to my mother and that my mother would never have done such a thing behind my back. I also told the class that since the teacher had lied and humiliated me in front of the class and made me doubt my mother for the afternoon that I would no longer be taking any instructions from the teacher. During all of this the teacher just sat there with a slack jaw not knowing what to do. The whole class looked to be in shock and I sat down.

The next couple of minutes are a bit hard to remember because I had this ringing in my ears and my face felt hot from the stress of what I had just done. I think the teacher quickly got up to the front of the class and started some other lesson as quickly as possible to try and change the subject. The rest of the day I sat in class ignoring everything and read one of Asimov's books on physics.

For the rest of the whole year I was never bothered by her again, and I basically did whatever I wanted in her class. This was just as well because the only thing she was able to teach me was that religious people are fanatics who lie, cheat and coerce in any way to make others believe the way they do. Any good she might have done as a teacher was destroyed.

It did not take long for this whole bible reading in class to stop. I am sure that someone else complained and she stopped asking people to do it. If she had done anything to retaliate against me for sticking up for my rights, I am sure it would have been the end of her being able to teach again anywhere in my area.

I have never been attacked, coerced, lied to, not even approached by any atheist in my life trying to make me believe their way.

In my life I have faced countless mormons, jehovah witnesses, scientologists, 7th day adventists, catholics, anglicans, etc, at my house door, in my schools, in the malls, in parking lots, almost anywhere trying to bother me with their beliefs. Continuously there are references on TV, radio, and all media about god(s). All the governments rely on religion in some way where ever I have lived. In court I have been asked many times to swear on the bible that "so help me god" that I will tell the truth.

So saying that atheists are always speaking up and trying to force their minds on others is an outright error or a lie or simply a troll. It is exactly to opposite. Theists will do almost anything to get you to believe their side, or just kill you for not believing it. History and my personal experience is on the side of that assertion.
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #253 on: May 20, 2012, 09:15:30 am »
Interesting story, Lightages.

My great grandmother was very religious, a Christian derivative evangelist of some sort. However, my parents weren't religious at all, and I was never baptised, or anything like that. Therefore I was free to take whatever stance I wanted on this subject. I loved my great grandmother dearly, visited her every Saturday, she cooked me great food and taught me a lot about plants, and gardening. I was also intrigued by her religious activities on Sundays. So one day I asked her whether I could visit Sunday school, and see what was going on in there.

Naturally it was a bible recital session of some sort, pretty much a recap of the creation story. I sat there, completely confused, particularly about dinosaurs, they were supposed to roam on this Earth only few thousand years ago! I objected, and questioned the story and stated this is wrong, because I was reading another book*, which painted a completely different story about the Earth's history. I was practically shut down, and was told that my book was a lie, without any justification as to why. Needless to say, I never went back, and my mind was pretty much programmed into atheist mode from thereon. (Bit like the point of no return for the android kid in the Spielberg movie "A.I.", where the android was given a sequence of verbal commands to activate its imprinting protocol.)

I learned very early to question everything and not to trust what people say without verification.

* This is a science book for kids, published c. 1985, given to me as a present. Best present ever. It literally opened my mind to science and the universe.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 09:22:00 am by AntiProtonBoy »
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #254 on: May 20, 2012, 09:56:25 am »
To quote Christopher Hitchens: 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #255 on: May 20, 2012, 11:02:05 am »
now me again. this may sound a little bold... [preach cloth = ON]

"please my fellow christians, if you really are looking for real god and truth (not what your father and grandfather believe blindly), take a glance at islam and its holy book quran. thats the real truth there. bible was written/passed down by the same god as islam, just as pentateuch/torah and zabur. but quran is the most latest and authentic writing. authenticity is questionable for bible and torah, the church tried hard enough to conseal this risking collapsing their established organization"

islam didnt self destruct. during its expansion, using peaceful "dakwah", not war, organized church felt threaten and start crusade war. many muslim and scientific books was destroyed during the time. mostly burnt and eaten by muslim to avoid gotten by the wrong hand. islam is in harmony with science, but not church. so nowadays muslim is seen as weak community, but because its peacefull nature. only minority went fanatics and start suicide war, but again because they are threaten by other parties/politicians etc, not because rejecting other religion. but they do it in public and civilians is definitely a wrong way of islam, western/church conspiracy worsen this scenario. even though we are weak, i believe if islam has to raise to declare war/threaten, that can be something.

"so, we islam are peaceful religion. come and join us! my fellow christians and agnostics, come embrace Allah and believe Him with your heart!"
[preach cloth = OFF] :P
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #256 on: May 20, 2012, 11:15:35 am »
"so, we islam are peaceful religion. come and join us! my fellow christians and agnostics, come embrace Allah and believe Him with your heart!"

Sure, no problem, just show us your evidence of why we should believe. Seriously, that's all it takes.
It can't be that hard can it?  ;D

Dave.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #257 on: May 20, 2012, 11:21:41 am »
about the god threat and 72 virgins in heaven thing, i cannot help it, but its true, thats what written in the book, so if the book lies, then i lie (but i dont think so).

"so, we islam are peaceful religion. come and join us! my fellow christians and agnostics, come embrace Allah and believe Him with your heart!"

Sure, no problem, just show us your evidence of why we should believe. Seriously, that's all it takes.
It can't be that hard can it?  ;D

Dave.

Well Mech, thank you for your generous invitation, and I won't ask for evidence like Dave does, nor use the Allah given brain ability to reason/logic to confront you, its just my "heart" hurts when everytime I imagine that my wife thinking about me with 72 virgins fucking all day long eternally in heaven, really, I love my wife wholeheartedly.

Not sure though, but I can safely assumed that your wife is really fine with that right ? ;)


Reposting the previous image again to help boosting/enhancing that feeling ....
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 11:45:21 am by BravoV »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #258 on: May 20, 2012, 12:06:08 pm »
"so, we islam are peaceful religion. come and join us! my fellow christians and agnostics, come embrace Allah and believe Him with your heart!"
Sure, no problem, just show us your evidence of why we should believe. Seriously, that's all it takes.
It can't be that hard can it?  ;D
Dave.
god's paradox... is clever than us, we'll never find Him his hiding. or... measurement problem! :P

Quote
I love my wife wholeheartedly
muslim can marry 4 women at a time, and whats the odd of that? divorce has it own specified procedure, not random (if you want to raise that point).
i read a poet lingering in the net something like... if you give her a house, she will give you a home. if you give her ... she will give you more... i cant remember exactly. the point is.. being monogamists is another way of thinking, owning and being owned (let me say it that way), you own your wife alone, and she owns you, one and only. but if you are dear enough to your girl.. she will even let you get (or fuck :P) another girl ;). men are designed to can love many things/human, woman not. now its been misunderstood for muslim being polygamists, but its not as easy as it sounded, you have to be very just to your wives in almost all aspects, in other word... they all must be happy with you... impossible? king or china empire if i'm not mistaken had many girls/maid (cant recall the exact term), but his queen can still be happy for him.

now, if you think you really love your wife wholeheartedly... let me give you a good news... its not compulsary to fuck all those virgins (whether you are not "willing" or incapable of :P), you can use them to polish your wife's nail and hair ;) isnt that wonderful? true love to enternity :P
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #259 on: May 20, 2012, 12:20:28 pm »
Sure, no problem, just show us your evidence of why we should believe. Seriously, that's all it takes.
It can't be that hard can it?  ;D
Dave.
or if you let me to prove it in nontangible way... in the book, there's a complete teaching on how you behave. what the law and legistlation should be like. how you treat your girl and children, neighboor everybody. what you can eat or cant, what things are forbidden to avoid morality/ethical corruption. and for agnostics like you, i urge just to take a read, not to embrace, just to argue its invalidity. but if you ask proof such as where is god, or why we cant eat pig, then i cannot show you since i dont have a device to measure. of course you may break the rule you cant comprehend, just be an agnostics, and follow some of the sensible rules in there ;) or at least guide you to find your logic :P be it in science or morality (the way of life).
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #260 on: May 20, 2012, 12:43:26 pm »
i read a poet lingering in the net something like... if you give her a house, she will give you a home. if you give her ... she will give you more... i cant remember exactly. the point is.. being monogamists is another way of thinking, owning and being owned (let me say it that way), you own your wife alone, and she owns you, one and only. but if you are dear enough to your girl.. she will even let you get (or fuck :P) another girl ;). men are designed to can love many things/human, woman not. now its been misunderstood for muslim being polygamists, but its not as easy as it sounded, you have to be very just to your wives in almost all aspects, in other word... they all must be happy with you... impossible? king or china empire if i'm not mistaken had many girls/maid (cant recall the exact term), but his queen can still be happy for him.

What if unfortunately I have daughters ? And what if my daughters wish to have 72 virgin hot & sexy males to have fun too eternally as male do, does that Holy book have something to say about this ? Expecting to believe and have faith to a God that is fair and just is not too much to ask for, right ?

now, if you think you really love your wife wholeheartedly... let me give you a good news... its not compulsary to fuck all those virgins (whether you are not "willing" or incapable of :P), you can use them to polish your wife's nail and hair ;) isnt that wonderful? true love to enternity :P

Its not wise to refuse Allah's great gift, you "must" enjoy them as Allah intended for you, beware, or you will be thrown to hell eternally. Also remember, that is why Allah will make your "stuff" down there between your thigh stone stiff and pointy all the time eternally. :D

Does the Book mention how females ended up in heaven specifically ? If not, how can I be sure that my wife/mother/daughter/grand-ma don't ended up as those 72 virgins team for other males ?  >:( Cause every souls in heaven will be given their youth back eternally right ? Does that Book mention about what happened to female when they're in heaven ?

The most important is, does female have the same privilege as male does in Allah's heaven ? Cause you know your self on earth, muslim females are treated like dirt compared to muslim males, riding your own example above, does the Book allow female to have more than one husbands ? ;)

« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 12:55:23 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline 8086

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #261 on: May 20, 2012, 01:01:36 pm »
God wants us to love one another, not to sit around debating and arguing over his existance. He exists, we all know it, we just accept or deny it. Simple really - the evidence IS EVERYWHERE... you just have to LOOK; it's staring you right in the face.

What evidence is that, then?

A list would be good. It doesn't have to include EVERYTHING, but examples would be great.

I'm saying the evidence IS there, I am not going to reel off a list; you can see for yourself. It's not about evidence - God's existance is not on trial by his own creation; that's absurd. I am saying IF you need evidence, think a little deeper about it, and you'll see. May take all your life, but I'll stake EVERYTHING that you'll either believe whilst alive, or immediately after your death, without any possible shadow of any kind of doubt, ever, EVER... hopefully not as late as the latter, and do you really want to miss out on heaven? There's no "inbetween world" between heaven and hell. To be blunt, that's how it is folks. I hope you find God's love, because it is incredible... you really have no comparison to it until you feel it.

So...

a) you have no evidence
b) you're afraid of death, or rather, afraid of going to hell

What a fantastic argument to explain why these beliefs should be true for everyone!

 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #262 on: May 20, 2012, 01:40:48 pm »
Was the founding father of Islam not a very nice chap by the name of Mohamed, whose favorite past time if I am not mistaken was invading all the surrounding territories and lopping of the heads of all who would not total  acquiescence to his way of thinking from.

If god exists it is in the form of the Higgs Boson. 
 
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #263 on: May 20, 2012, 01:41:32 pm »
Hot off the press, from Bill Maher!



Dave.
 

Offline djsb

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #264 on: May 20, 2012, 02:04:21 pm »
Hot off the press, from Bill Maher!



Dave.

First time I've heard of Bill Maher. Where can I find more of this stuff, he's good. You learn something new every day on this forum. Thank for posting this.

David
David
Hertfordshire,UK
University Electronics Technician, London PIC,CCS C,Arduino,Kicad, Altium Designer,LPKF S103,S62 Operator, Electronics instructor. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Credited Kicad French to English translator.
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #265 on: May 20, 2012, 02:33:45 pm »
First time I've heard of Bill Maher. Where can I find more of this stuff, he's good. You learn something new every day on this forum. Thank for posting this.

David
https://www.youtube.com/user/RealTime

If you can, find his documentary called "Religulous" (2008).

 

Offline Time

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #266 on: May 20, 2012, 02:36:51 pm »
Hot off the press, from Bill Maher!



Dave.

I see your Bill Maher and raise you some Bill Maher  :D  Love this guy!

"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."



-Time
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #267 on: May 20, 2012, 03:22:52 pm »
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
--Bill Maher

That is a fallacy!

It is a fallacy because abstinence is a personal choice of refraining from indulging a physical occurring appetite: The sexual appetite, in particular, which, as an instinct, is a part of our reproductive system: Our sexual appetite is critical for the perpetuation of our species.

On the other hand, atheism is not an indulgence, or a self-restraint, from some kind of our physical needs for our perpetuation. It is a choice NOT to submit to an artificial control lever, as the religion is --and has always been.

- Our sexual appetite is a part of our reproduction mechanism, which is not an artificial need but one of our most critical physically occurring needs.
- Our submitting to an authority is an artificial need, based on our insecurity of functioning in a responsible and independent way within our societies --which is one of the products of choosing to live an irresponsible way of life.


-George



EDIT: Unless, of course, if Bill Maher states that, Atheism and Theism are the two opposite poles of the same subject matter, revolving around the existence or not of god(s).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 03:32:44 pm by A Hellene »
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline vxp036000

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #268 on: May 20, 2012, 04:09:36 pm »
Not quite.  It's a common misconception that all religions involve submitting to some sort of higher authority.  In some religous doctrines, it's quite the contrary.  Their god is an enabler, not a controller. 

I will also say that when I did attend various churches in the past, the attitude was almost the polar opposite of checking reasoning at the door.  Instead, they came up with rational explanations of the apparent discrepancies between science and there religious texts.  Do you really think most Christians today deny evolution or claim that the earth was created in a week?  That's an 18th century concept and nearly dead, at least in the religous circles I've seen.  Instead, they interpret their bible figuratively.

And yes, atheism is a religion.  It requires believing that god does not exist.  Since we cannot prove the non-existence of god (or existence of god, for that matter), atheism requires faith. 

"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
--Bill Maher

That is a fallacy!

It is a fallacy because abstinence is a personal choice of refraining from indulging a physical occurring appetite: The sexual appetite, in particular, which, as an instinct, is a part of our reproductive system: Our sexual appetite is critical for the perpetuation of our species.

On the other hand, atheism is not an indulgence, or a self-restraint, from some kind of our physical needs for our perpetuation. It is a choice NOT to submit to an artificial control lever, as the religion is --and has always been.

- Our sexual appetite is a part of our reproduction mechanism, which is not an artificial need but one of our most critical physically occurring needs.
- Our submitting to an authority is an artificial need, based on our insecurity of functioning in a responsible and independent way within our societies --which is one of the products of choosing to live an irresponsible way of life.


-George



EDIT: Unless, of course, if Bill Maher states that, Atheism and Theism are the two opposite poles of the same subject matter, revolving around the existence or not of god(s).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 04:14:52 pm by vxp036000 »
 

Offline 8086

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #269 on: May 20, 2012, 04:16:13 pm »
Not quite.  It's a common misconception that all religions involve submitting to some sort of higher authority.  In some religous doctrines, it's quite the contrary.  Their god is an enabler, not a controller. 

And yes, atheism is a religion.  It requires believing that god does not exist.  Since we cannot prove the non-existence of god (or existence of god, for that matter), atheism requires faith. 

"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
--Bill Maher

That is a fallacy!

It is a fallacy because abstinence is a personal choice of refraining from indulging a physical occurring appetite: The sexual appetite, in particular, which, as an instinct, is a part of our reproductive system: Our sexual appetite is critical for the perpetuation of our species.

On the other hand, atheism is not an indulgence, or a self-restraint, from some kind of our physical needs for our perpetuation. It is a choice NOT to submit to an artificial control lever, as the religion is --and has always been.

- Our sexual appetite is a part of our reproduction mechanism, which is not an artificial need but one of our most critical physically occurring needs.
- Our submitting to an authority is an artificial need, based on our insecurity of functioning in a responsible and independent way within our societies --which is one of the products of choosing to live an irresponsible way of life.


-George



EDIT: Unless, of course, if Bill Maher states that, Atheism and Theism are the two opposite poles of the same subject matter, revolving around the existence or not of god(s).

Atheism is a neutral position.  It doesn't require faith to not believe in something.

I think you're running the risk of trying to be far too clever and getting confused by your own "philosophical" knowledge.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #270 on: May 20, 2012, 04:57:32 pm »
As far from afraid of death as you could humanly imagine; TOTALLY the opposite. Why would I be afraid of living eternally in love unimaginable with the creator of everything seen and unseen?

You are afraid of going to hell. I did say that.

So to counter this you believe in all of this and that religious mumbo jumbo, and heaven, in the hope that possibly you might get to go to heaven when you die, because you're afraid of the alternative.

Atheists tend to not be afraid of death either. Yet they don't subscribe to nonsense like heaven and hell.
 

Offline bullet308

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #271 on: May 20, 2012, 06:26:03 pm »
I could write stuff like that, too. Of course, they would probably put me in psych hospital...
>>>BULLET>>>
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #272 on: May 20, 2012, 06:57:51 pm »
If you can, find his documentary called "Religulous" (2008).

Actually I did link to that documentary earlier.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/ot-the-religion-thead/msg111738/#msg111738

The link to Religulous again is:
RELIGULOUS Bill Maher Full Documentary Film

"atheism is a religion" Hah!
Just because one wants to believe that atheism is a religion doesn't make it so. Only those religious people who threatened by the fact that someone doesn't believe what they do would try to say that atheism is a religion. I know not one atheist who would say they are part of the "atheist religion".  I don't actively not think of a deity. I just don't think or concern myself with the delusion that the most of the world is under.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #273 on: May 20, 2012, 07:00:36 pm »
As far from afraid of death as you could humanly imagine; TOTALLY the opposite. Why would I be afraid of living eternally in love unimaginable with the creator of everything seen and unseen?

You are afraid of going to hell. I did say that.

So to counter this you believe in all of this and that religious mumbo jumbo, and heaven, in the hope that possibly you might get to go to heaven when you die, because you're afraid of the alternative.

Atheists tend to not be afraid of death either. Yet they don't subscribe to nonsense like heaven and hell.

Noone wants to go to hell... do they? I am not "bullied" into my belief - I love God because he has shown me he loves ME, more times than I can count. Christians are not fools or naive, and it's pretty ignorant to think this... but the general concencus of this thread was talked about in the Bible, many thousands of years ago - it was prophecied...

2 Peter 3, verse 3:

Quote
1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

If you believe in hell then you wouldn't want to go there, sure.

Do you not see the obvious problem in quoting bible passages in support of your points? Of course the bible agrees with you; the bible is where your viewpoint originates.
 

Offline djsb

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Re: OT: The religion thead...
« Reply #274 on: May 20, 2012, 08:04:36 pm »
I've just had a thought. If there is a god why does he/she rely on communicating in such an indirect way as the bible.
The passage quoted is very difficult to understand and will never win a plain english award. Surely an omnipotent being will be far more direct and immediate in their communications. Why doesn't god use Twitter? Or the TV or even this forum?
God, if youre reading this thread show yourself.

David
Hertfordshire,UK
University Electronics Technician, London PIC,CCS C,Arduino,Kicad, Altium Designer,LPKF S103,S62 Operator, Electronics instructor. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Credited Kicad French to English translator.
 


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